Ich POLL!

[THEDLO]

PLEASE VOTE!

forgive me for opening the can o' worms but im curious to know whom of the thousands of RC members have ich in there tank presently with fish that seem to live un affected by its presence.

my current tank is over a year old now, and i know that there is ich living in it. I HAVE NEVER LOST A FISH TO ICH...EVER. fish that have died in my care have either jumped, or my sally light foot crab ate them, or they were coming to the end of there lives (e.g. my CBB) or like in the case of my 7 chromis they would kill each other.

i've only QT'd once, and it was a hippo that had ich, but when it stopped eating i threw him back into the DT where he over came his ich dilemma and continued to live happily till i sold him.
Since then a spot occasionally appears on my purple tang (and only when it hasn't been fed nori for a week when im on vacation) once its regular scheduled feeding is done the spot goes away--been a while since the last spot. the latest incident was the female of my swallowtail pair who had it pretty bad when i first got her, but after 2-3 weeks the infestation ceased and she hasn't had a spot on her since. my naso has never suffered any ich or rather i have never seen the physical manifestations of it on his person. my water quality isnt the very best but it is stable.

some background on my tank; i run a 45 sump and a 30g fuge for the 120g DT. 10 fish; naso, purple tang, swallowtail pair, clown pair, leopard wrasse, decorated goby, a royal gramma in the fuge, and the last of my 8 chromis..

i am very critical of my tank and i closely observe it and its inhabitants daily as im sure most of u do. so let the discussion begin and please VOTE!

thanks,
David

Disclaimer; this is purely for discussion only practice at your own risk lol I do me, and you do you.

[Allmost]

I believe every tank has ich, it just shows when the health of fish lowers, lowering its immune system. Oceans for sure have ich ... (that's where it came from lol)
like many human diseases. we all have the virus, it just activates when we are weaker and ...

if I dont feed my tangs for a while, of if water quality lowers, they show signs of ich, feed them again and boom its gone in a day.

PS. I like ure religion and reefing analogy hhahah

[THEDLO]

Originally Posted by Allmost

I believe every tank has ich, it just shows when the health of fish lowers, lowering its immune system. Oceans for sure have ich ... (that's where it came from lol)
like many human diseases. we all have the virus, it just activates when we are weaker and ...

if I dont feed my tangs for a while, of if water quality lowers, they show signs of ich, feed them again and boom its gone in a day.

PS. I like ure religion and reefing analogy hhahah

i agree 100% with what u said. i think what kills fish are owners who over react or the skimp on QT equipment like copper test kits or using hydrometer for hypo treatments.

and thanks i came up with it while discussing this same topic

oh and dont forget to vote else this whole thing is useless lol

[Turbovr3six]

I agree with Allmost. Every tank has Ich IMO, but will only host the fish when its weak or stressed for periods of time. BUT, if the Ich is bad then I say that you should take ALL of the fish out and QT them. After about 8 weeks(some will disagree with me here) all the Ich should be mostly out of your tank. No fish=No host for parasite.

GL man!

[THEDLO]

Originally Posted by Turbovr3six

I agree with Allmost. Every tank has Ich IMO, but will only host the fish when its weak or stressed for periods of time. BUT, if the Ich is bad then I say that you should take ALL of the fish out and QT them. After about 8 weeks(some will disagree with me here) all the Ich should be mostly out of your tank. No fish=No host for parasite.

GL man!

thanks Justin

also please note the disclaimer. :P

[Turbovr3six]

Gotcha! My bad!

[syrinx]

I think there are very few 100% ich free tanks. There are many folks that feel theirs is- but with the storms this winter- quite a few of those "ich free" tanks came down with ich. If you want a religion anology- believing in a ich free tank is taking the same leap of faith as religion. (I am a supporter of religion,no offense intended)

[THEDLO]

Originally Posted by syrinx

I think there are very few 100% ich free tanks. There are many folks that feel theirs is- but with the storms this winter- quite a few of those "ich free" tanks came down with ich. If you want a religion anology- believing in a ich free tank is taking the same leap of faith as religion. (I am a supporter of religion,no offense intended)

none taken! and yea im sure many ppl were shocked when the dreaded white spots appeared on the inhabitants of their "disease free utopia"

[THEDLO]

60 views and only 6 votes....

[DrHarryLopez]

After a few months all tanks are no longer virgin tanks.

[THEDLO]

wheres the discussion?

[MrTuskfish]

I'd rather go with the science than the anecdotal evidence. IMO, many folks who think they have ich, don't. There are other parasites, wounds, even bits of substrate that are often mistaken for marine ich. I have never seen one opinion from a recognized, published authority that supports the idea that ich is always present, can be controlled with garlic, diet, etc. I'll stick with the opinions of the Fenners, Goemans, Mods of this forum, etc. BTW, Since moving (lost a ton of fish to Katrina); I have treated every new fish with Cupramine and a de-wormer in QT. I haven't seen any parasite in any of my tanks since. I have a lot of fish: two 240s and a 18o FOWLR and a 55 reef. I've also QT'd all my good friend & helpers fish and he has no parasites in his 4 large tanks. I'll stick with what works, not just hope for a preventable & curable parasite infestation to just go away. It won't. IMO & IME, proper QT procedures work. Also, the comparisons to "ich in the ocean" and like a virus is ridiculous. the ocean isn't a closed system and ich is a parasite. A fish can't build immunity to the Marine Ich parasite anymore than I can build up an immunity to wood ticks. (or other parasites, like my ex- brother-in-law.

[kingfisher62]

Several years without ich on any livestock But I know it is lurking some where in there!

[MrTuskfish]

Originally Posted by kingfisher62

Several years without ich on any livestock But I know it is lurking some where in there!

How do you know?

[jimmy frag]

iv got it. i keep allways 15-20 cleaner shrimp in my 75 g. reef and seems to keep the fish at a stress free level. never a death

[THEDLO]

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

I'd rather go with the science than the anecdotal evidence. IMO, many folks who think they have ich, don't. There are other parasites, wounds, even bits of substrate that are often mistaken for marine ich. I have never seen one opinion from a recognized, published authority that supports the idea that ich is always present, can be controlled with garlic, diet, etc. I'll stick with the opinions of the Fenners, Goemans, Mods of this forum, etc. BTW, Since moving (lost a ton of fish to Katrina); I have treated every new fish with Cupramine and a de-wormer in QT. I haven't seen any parasite in any of my tanks since. I have a lot of fish: two 240s and a 18o FOWLR and a 55 reef. I've also QT'd all my good friend & helpers fish and he has no parasites in his 4 large tanks. I'll stick with what works, not just hope for a preventable & curable parasite infestation to just go away. It won't. IMO & IME, proper QT procedures work. Also, the comparisons to "ich in the ocean" and like a virus is ridiculous. the ocean isn't a closed system and ich is a parasite. A fish can't build immunity to the Marine Ich parasite anymore than I can build up an immunity to wood ticks. (or other parasites, like my ex- brother-in-law.

i agree with some of your points, like the tank and ocean comparison. however i dont believe that ich is that big of a threat like most believe. my fish have had ich not sand on them or a wound etc. and they have just over come it, it doesn't happen over night no but after a week or so its gone, and i dont consider it a success unless its spot free for at least a month, like in the case of my swallow tail.

im positive that if i go sticking my hand in the tank and moving things around, and chasing fish that with in a few days spots will appear and if i leave them be after a few weeks everything will clear up as it has in the past. i dont think they develop an immunity per se but rather the fishes immune system does not allow for the parasite to grow completely (speculation) so it cant exactly mature? again speculation. like mentioned in the OP i have only QT'd once and it was a fail and would have failed cause the fish was going back into the same water anyways where it would have been reinfected. I dont think ill ever QT since nothing bad has ever come of not doing so. Ive

had many different fish in my tank so its not like the fish i have now havent shaken some dirty hands
my very first ich case appeared on my foxface rabbit, the only thing i did to him was a FW dip that help very little but not long after they white spots dissipated, im not attributing his recovery to the dip just that it happen after a week or 2. all im saying is i have yet to lose a fish to ich, and also not every tank is the same where there is just one way that can be applied across all reefs. (not sure if that last part made much sense but i get it :P)

[THEDLO]

lets get more experiences! and Votes!

[steelhead77]

THEDLO: Thanks for starting this thread. You make the very same arguements I've been making for some months now. However, I don't know how to vote in your poll.
Here is my Purple Tang:



This pic was taken over two years ago. There were about nine or ten other fish in the tank with him. He was never qt'd. No other fish came down with ich. I have upgraded tanks twice since this pic. I have a total of 17 fish now, have never qt'd a single one and I have not had a single spot appear since he cleared up. And he is still alive and well today. I do believe my tank is ich free.

I know there are many self-proclaimed ich "experts" on this site- some have little to no actual experience with it, yet tell everyone that, at the sight of a single white spot, they MUST remove all fish and leave the tank fallow for 6, 8 or 10 weeks. While other "experts" have killed more fish with their qt and "treatment" than if they had left them alone to fight it off.

Good discussion. I hope others will chime in and make some thoughtful, rational arguements and be able to back it up with actual experiences rather than white papers and "studies" that may or may not have any real relevence to an actual tank in someones living room.

So, anyway, back to your poll......How do I vote? I had ich with fish in my tank, but I don't any longer. So, do I vote yes or no?

[Gogandantess]

Oh just wait til a Powder Blue Tang or Hippo wipes out your tank then you'll know how serious a threat ich is. I've experienced such tragic disasters from not qurantining fish. Your luck will only last so long until it happens.

[Shellyfish]

I disagree with the ich not being a huge threat, besides being extremely uncomfortable for the fish it can be fatal. I know 3 people who have recently lost several fish to ich. I'm currently treating my fish for it as well and hope to not lose any!

[smtank]

When the right stress is added to a system such as decline in water quality, aggression and over crowding, ich will rear it's ugly head. While everyone should properly QT their fish, unless you are treating every frag, invert and new pieces of LR the potential for introduction Marine ich is always present.

[THEDLO]

Originally Posted by steelhead77

THEDLO: Thanks for starting this thread. You make the very same arguements I've been making for some months now. However, I don't know how to vote in your poll.
Here is my Purple Tang:



This pic was taken over two years ago. There were about nine or ten other fish in the tank with him. He was never qt'd. No other fish came down with ich. I have upgraded tanks twice since this pic. I have a total of 17 fish now, have never qt'd a single one and I have not had a single spot appear since he cleared up. And he is still alive and well today. I do believe my tank is ich free.

I know there are many self-proclaimed ich "experts" on this site- some have little to no actual experience with it, yet tell everyone that, at the sight of a single white spot, they MUST remove all fish and leave the tank fallow for 6, 8 or 10 weeks. While other "experts" have killed more fish with their qt and "treatment" than if they had left them alone to fight it off.

Good discussion. I hope others will chime in and make some thoughtful, rational arguements and be able to back it up with actual experiences rather than white papers and "studies" that may or may not have any real relevence to an actual tank in someones living room.

So, anyway, back to your poll......How do I vote? I had ich with fish in my tank, but I don't any longer. So, do I vote yes or no?

vote yes because i was never removed or addressed only it hasn't been able to completely/or continue to manifest its self. (not sure if thats the right way to describe it.) and thanks i was just curious cause im sure im not the only one who doesnt QT and hasnt lost any fish to the dreaded spot.

Originally Posted by Gogandantess

Oh just wait til a Powder Blue Tang or Hippo wipes out your tank then you'll know how serious a threat ich is. I've experienced such tragic disasters from not qurantining fish. Your luck will only last so long until it happens.

had one, (hippo) as stated above, and it did break out several times but never kicked it not sure of its current condition since i sold it back in august. i agree on it being quite uncomfortable since the fish is willing to scratch of on rocks, however i have yet to see the fatal part of having ich.

Originally Posted by smtank

When the right stress is added to a system such as decline in water quality, aggression and over crowding, ich will rear it's ugly head. While everyone should properly QT their fish, unless you are treating every frag, invert and new pieces of LR the potential for introduction Marine ich is always present.

AGREED!

vote yes if it has been present in your tank and uve let nature do its thing and u can no longer/or rarely see ich.
and NO if u have treated for it.

please more experiences preferably the fatal ones (sorry for you loss.), and with plenty of detail, not just "i had a hippo and it died." give background detail on the tank and what was going on when u had ur experience and what u did and y u think it went bad.
please note that this is all speculation and if i ever lose a fish to ich ill be the first to admit it, and start a "QT everything" campaign lol till then

[acts4me]

I have dealt with ich many times over the years I have been in the hobby. I tried everything in the beginning, removing the fish to qt, treating with maricide and all the other treatments available. Then about 4 years ago I came across Thera plus A food. Since that time I have never lost a fish to ich. I tell all my friends about it and many have used it also. As long as the ich is identified soon enough( and if you are watching your tank it should be) and the fish is still eating it will recover. I have not had an ich outbreak in any of my tanks in a long time. I usually feed thera plus a at least once a week. Not trying to sound like a comercial but it works for me. Oh and I vote yes I guess. LOL

[THEDLO]

Originally Posted by acts4me

I have dealt with ich many times over the years I have been in the hobby. I tried everything in the beginning, removing the fish to qt, treating with maricide and all the other treatments available. Then about 4 years ago I came across Thera plus A food. Since that time I have never lost a fish to ich. I tell all my friends about it and many have used it also. As long as the ich is identified soon enough( and if you are watching your tank it should be) and the fish is still eating it will recover. I have not had an ich outbreak in any of my tanks in a long time. I usually feed thera plus a at least once a week. Not trying to sound like a comercial but it works for me. Oh and I vote yes I guess. LOL

and now back to our show! hahaha no worries it was apart your ich experience thanks for voting!

[THEDLO]

+200 views and only 28 votes.... -__-