Two Tanks / One Sump / Return pump question

[NEK-ap24]

I am setting up my first setup with a sump, so its new to me.

I am doing a FOWLR in a 40 gal and a mixed reef in a 70 Gal. with a shared 125 Gal sump.

I am looking for suggestions on the optimal way to plumb the set up.

Can I use one return pump to feed both? What are the suggestions for target flow rates into each tank? (I made Calflo (C2C) external overflows w/bean animal (1.5" plumbing through 1" bulkheads) silent drain systems in each tank) so I can handle very little or a very high amount of flow.

My stand is 40 inches tall, and the sump will be in the base of the stand (so approximately 60" head height)

I am using a Super Reef Octopus 2000 internal skimmer. What is the trend with matching flow rates to the skimmer's GPH capability?

I will use a Vortech MP 40 for flow in the reef tank, and Koralia in the 40gal so I am open to low flow through the sump if that is what is recommended. I do not intend on doing a closed loop system at this time.

Thanks much,

[thegrun]

I like to run 5 to 7 times each tank's total volume through the sump and use powerhead type pumps for the remaining flow. One return pump with balancing valves would be fine. What could be more of an issue is contaminating the reef tanks water with water from the fish only tank which usually has poorer water quality (higher nitrates). You would also need to keep the calcium levels high in both tanks if they are hooked together, where normally you wouldn’t care much about the calcium level in a fish only tank.

[Liquid Hobby]

FOWLR and a reef plumbed together... hmmm. Aside from water quality issues, what do you do if you have to treat the FOWLR tank? Fish meds and reefs don't mix!

[rhactopia]

We considered a similar setup with a reef and a FOWLR plumbed together; however, our purpose for the FOWLR tank was simply to have a couple of fish that were not "reef-safe" rather than keeping a large amount of fish, so we weren't concerned about water quality issues. We didn't consider the calcium issue, though, and that's a very interesting point.

[hpfunk]

Is the purpose to save on a skimmer or other equipment that you would need two of?
I don't see any other advantage do doing this kind of combo.
If I were running two tanks off the same sump, I would use a second return just so that an issue with the plumbing (pump, drain, valves, ect.) both tanks won't be hit.
If I were set on running one pump I would have all three (both tanks and the sump) at different levels so the pump could lift water from the bottom to the top the top would drain to the middle and then drains to the bottom.
So if you had a set up with the sump at the lowest point and holding the one pump, send it to the FOWLR then drain it to the reef and then back to the sump. If you would try to split the return and have each tank draining to the sump a different set of flooding issues need to be investigated.
Best case have separate systems.
2nd best have two return pumps and keep a low bio load in the FOWLR
3rd worst one pump gravity drained with high bio load
Worst, one pump split to two tanks and a high bio load
If you don't mind the bigger skimmer and extra calcium, bigger equipment, ect. Then at least get each tank a pump that meets is requirements.
Just my two cents...

[NEK-ap24]

Thanks for the replies

Originally Posted by Liquid Hobby

FOWLR and a reef plumbed together... hmmm. Aside from water quality issues, what do you do if you have to treat the FOWLR tank? Fish meds and reefs don't mix!

Liquid Hobby, the med issue is a great point. I do plan to have a quarenteen tank (an old Aqua Pod 24) so I could net and med the fish out of the main display. None of the fish are going to be large either.

Originally Posted by thegrun

I like to run 5 to 7 times each tank's total volume through the sump and use powerhead type pumps for the remaining flow. One return pump with balancing valves would be fine. What could be more of an issue is contaminating the reef tanks water with water from the fish only tank which usually has poorer water quality (higher nitrates). You would also need to keep the calcium levels high in both tanks if they are hooked together, where normally you wouldn’t care much about the calcium level in a fish only tank.

Thanks for the suggestion Thegrun

Originally Posted by rhactopia

We considered a similar setup with a reef and a FOWLR plumbed together; however, our purpose for the FOWLR tank was simply to have a couple of fish that were not "reef-safe" rather than keeping a large amount of fish, so we weren't concerned about water quality issues. We didn't consider the calcium issue, though, and that's a very interesting point.

The FOWLR is going to be very similar to what you mentioned Rhactopia, a seperate display for a couple of non-reef safe or (risky reef) or just not invert safe fish & an eel. 4 -5 fish max.

Originally Posted by hpfunk

Is the purpose to save on a skimmer or other equipment that you would need two of?

I am primarily looking to save maintenance and cost from duplicating equipement. I also want to utilize the large sump to have a large refugium and Benthic zone for both tanks.

I agree that the CA levels in the FOWLR side would be somewhat wastful, I don't mind so much, as I may try keeping a couple hardy lower light corals on that side.

As far as the drainage issue, each tank has a very adjustable siphon system (bean animal) set up, that will all go to the same filter sock in the sump, so there shouldn't be an issue with flooding or balancing the water between the tanks.

Cheers

[Mouse]

What kind and how many fish in the 40? Reefs work better with high water quality, Id be concerned with dealing with the extra bio load.

[NEK-ap24]

Originally Posted by Mouse

What kind and how many fish in the 40? Reefs work better with high water quality, Id be concerned with dealing with the extra bio load.

Yeah, the 70 and 40 would again be supported by a 125 gallon sump, which the design of the sump will be using most of the capacity of the tank, the skimmer is raised up and chambers of the sump will all be very high. so the overall water volume should be about 200 gallons.

In the 70 Gal, I will have a semi busy looking mixed reef with only small peaceful fish (fish that would be appropriate for a nano tank, just more of them) (i.e. no tangs, angels or butterflys)

in the 40 Gal. I am still trying to pin down my fish selection, I am looking now at a Golden Dwarf Morey, a Fuzzy Dwarf Lion, a Marine Betta and Tomato clown w/host anemone, and possibly a scorpion of some sort. (4 or 5 max fish max) (no triggers, etc.)

I am trying to learn more about the aggressive fish, prior to impulse purchasing any. I thought that 200 gal for that bio load would be controllable to reef water quality standards. But I am willing to listen and adjust plans if I am wrong.

Sorry if it seems I am only posting information in pieces, I didn't want the OP to be a novel!

Thanks to all for responding and offering advice, and suggestions

[dakineacct]

Another option is to partition the 125 and create one seperate sump for each system (FOWLR and Reef).

[Mouse]

Those are messy fish and will foul the water quite a bit. Having the 2 tanks on the same loop will effect the reef. Id advise not joining the 2. Why not run the 125 as FOWLR, the large fish will need the space.

[NEK-ap24]

Originally Posted by dakineacct

Another option is to partition the 125 and create one seperate sump for each system (FOWLR and Reef).

My hesitancy for this is two fold, I would need to have a 2nd skimmer, 2nd heater system and controller, 2nd return pump, 2nd skimmer pump and extra probes for computer, with those adding heat, it may require a chiller in the summer.

Maintenance would also increase, Water changes would have to be done on two tanks rather then one and I would have two skimmers to clean, two seperate systems to monitor and maintain water parameters.

Originally Posted by Mouse

Those are messy fish and will foul the water quite a bit. Having the 2 tanks on the same loop will effect the reef. Id advise not joining the 2. Why not run the 125 as FOWLR, the large fish will need the space.

The two display tanks that i have are matching curved glass tanks (just different lengths), and the space for the sump underneath is on the ground. Of course I could use the 125 as a display tank elsewhere in my house, however, the 125 is not cosmetically great, it has some scratches and ugly seams. And truthfully I want the aquarium display to be in one compact area of the house. Not one here and one there.

It seems to me that a golden dwarf eel and a single dwarf fuzzy lion would be lost in a 6 foot display. Of course I could then add some additional fish, but that is moving farther away from what I wanted to do.

I would not have thought that those fish, being fed less frequently, would be a strain on the bioload of the system with such a large sump. I looked at things in the planning as being akin to having an aggressive reef setup in a single 200 gallon tank with the same fish...I wouldn't think that the number of fish would be too high to maintain reef conditions, the problem would be keeping the larger fish from eating the smaller ones. So...I looked to remedy that by seperating them. Perhaps I will have to reconcider the stocking of the 40gal. again.

[KEITHHAYS_2000]

I have two 134 (6x2) gallon tanks plumbed together to a 75 gallon sump. I am going with 600 GPH for each tank into the sump. I am using an aquac ev400 for a protein skimmer which has its own 40 gallon sump connected to the main sump by a Iwaki 55 and returning via a 2in bulkhead to the main sump. I have the protein skimmer on the same side of the main sump as the aquariums' water drops into to minimize re-skimming the same water. I like the idea of one system as opposed to two separate systems, but will remove fish for treament instead of treating the whole system.

I am using a single dart hybrid for the return to the two tanks split on a manifold. Water from the tanks drop to their own bulkheads in the sump.