Help. Reocurrence of Ich in the Hospital Tank

windyridge · 05/10/2011, 12:40 PM

We have three fish in a 10 gallon hospital tank. They were added to a cycled quarantine tank on may 2nd due to ich on the yellow tang and the coral beauty. The clown that is with them was ich free. The SG has been maintained at 1.011-1.012. but mostly 1.011 determined by refractometer. Ph levels are fine and ammonia has been zero. Tank temp has been maintained at 80.

Ich disappeared in a few days after fish were added to Q tank. But then the CB developed bloat. We fed it peas and started a tetracycline treatment. This worked. In a few days he was back to his old self. Here we are today and I see the CB is not only bloated again but he has ich. The other fish are fine. I have some Kick Ich (no copper). It says on the bottle not to add it with other medicines. The last of 3 tetracycline does was added 5/8. Is it ok and should I even bother to add Kick Ich? Why is ich coming back on this fish with low salinty? Should I go a little lower. I have read people lowering it to .08 but I worry about my other two healthy fish. Occasionally the tang bullies the CB...is that possibly causing the ich again on him? The CB acts normally otherwise and is eating.

The 6 week countdown started when all fish were ich free and now I have to reset. The fact that I have 3 fish in a 10 gallon tank (especially the tang) has me wishing the 6 weeks would be up already. This alone must be a stress.

greech · 05/10/2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windyridge

The fact that I have 3 fish in a 10 gallon tank (especially the tang) has me wishing the 6 weeks would be up already. This alone must be a stress.

I can't help with the meds and mixing but I am thinking this is more of the issue for your reccuring ich, even in lower salinity.

briankmarsh1980 · 05/10/2011, 12:46 PM

you should go read the stickies on fish disease treatment, before you do anything

windyridge · 05/10/2011, 02:00 PM

Ok read the stickies, forgot that was covered here. So it looks like my next trick is to lower the SG further. My Kick ich has no copper and is 5-nitroimidazoles and related to the compound one sticky says not to use so I won't use it...at least not yet unless I dose it in the food as the post suggests if I get nowhere. I am also thinking the close quarters is not helping the angel. I think I will just let the SG drop via evaporation so it's nice and slow. I will also add Maracyn Oxy which should cover the bloat problem and is more broad spectrum then Tetracylcine. But can I add it while the tank is still red from the tetracycline or should we put back the carbon to remove the tetracycline first?

Dactylopterus · 05/10/2011, 02:24 PM

I didn't get this: "I think I will just let the SG drop via evaporation so it's nice and slow".

SG doesn't drop down via evaporation, it increases. You have to remove some saltwater and the add some freshwater to decrease salinity.

An ATO in your QT tank should help with the recurrent Ich maintaining an stable Hyposalinity, this is very important for having success on this treatment.

windyridge · 05/10/2011, 02:38 PM

Sorry I got it backwards.
Should I remove the residual tetracycline and start treatment with Maracyn? The tetracycline made the bloat disappear but maybe there were a few other bacteria which the broader spectrum antibiotic should help. Or can I just dump in the maracyn. Also it's a lot harder to see ich with a red dark tank.

Sk8r · 05/10/2011, 03:24 PM

I'd use carbon first just to be sure what strength I'm dosing. Recall that evap concentrates (raises) both salinity and medication levels and adding more water dilutes or weakens it. So best remove and dose again when you hit the salinity you're going to stay at for a while.

windyridge · 05/10/2011, 05:55 PM

What is the reason for changing the carbon filters every day? This is what it suggests in the ich thread on this forum. That's a tad expensive and the only place I've seen that mentioned in a hyposalinity treatment.

windyridge · 05/11/2011, 11:46 AM

SPG 1.000, tang who looked ich free for a few days has ich again and is getting nipped at by clown and his fins are looking ragged as a result but he is still eating. Bloat did not improve in angel when added maracyn-oxy last night, and and mayhave gotten worse and he isn't eating....getting frustrated and don't want to kill the rest of my fish. Just when I thought I had it licked. Throughout all this the SPG has never gone above 1.012 and was a week at 1.011 and I have been decreasing it per ich thread. I guess I wait and see. Will finish out the maracyn oxy treatment (5 days) and cross my fingers. The good news is my soft and hard corals and both anemones as well as other assorted inverts in the main tank are thriving.

jcw · 05/11/2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windyridge

SPG 1.000, tang who looked ich free for a few days has ich again and is getting nipped at by clown and his fins are looking ragged as a result but he is still eating. Bloat did not improve in angel when added maracyn-oxy last night, and and mayhave gotten worse and he isn't eating....getting frustrated and don't want to kill the rest of my fish. Just when I thought I had it licked. Throughout all this the SPG has never gone above 1.012 and was a week at 1.011 and I have been decreasing it per ich thread. I guess I wait and see. Will finish out the maracyn oxy treatment (5 days) and cross my fingers. The good news is my soft and hard corals and both anemones as well as other assorted inverts in the main tank are thriving.

spec grav of 1.000 is too low! Yikes.

James404 · 05/11/2011, 12:53 PM

I run hypo at 1.008, this gives you enough leeway that when evaporation occurs you are still in hypo. I don't think 1.012 is effective, you need to keep it below 1.010. Also make sure your refractometer is calibrated frequently with a proper seawater calibration solution.

iLLwiLL · 05/11/2011, 01:13 PM

I just used some seachem kanaplex, metroplex and prime as a food additive and it worked amazingly well for my ich problem. might be worth a try.

~Will.

windyridge · 05/11/2011, 02:58 PM

I meant 1.010 headed towards 1.009.....those darn decimals get me every time! Meanwhile I will lose the Angel, he is really bloated now, swimming at a 45 degree angle and his eyes are bulging. No more angels for us, this is the second one to go but admittedly the first one went because we tried to treat ich incorrectly using Cu and we surly killed him. But they are obviously bad karma for us. I will not do the 2nd dose of maracyn since the angel is kaput. The refractometer directions said it wasn't necessary to calibrate on arrival but to occasionally calibrate. Does ich really encyst on carbon, and is that why it is necessary to change the carbon filters daily when treating for ich?

Thanks for all the advice!

05/10/2011, 12:40 PM	#1
windyridge Fish Mother Join Date: May 2011 Location: South Otselic, NY Posts: 1,403	Help. Reocurrence of Ich in the Hospital Tank We have three fish in a 10 gallon hospital tank. They were added to a cycled quarantine tank on may 2nd due to ich on the yellow tang and the coral beauty. The clown that is with them was ich free. The SG has been maintained at 1.011-1.012. but mostly 1.011 determined by refractometer. Ph levels are fine and ammonia has been zero. Tank temp has been maintained at 80. Ich disappeared in a few days after fish were added to Q tank. But then the CB developed bloat. We fed it peas and started a tetracycline treatment. This worked. In a few days he was back to his old self. Here we are today and I see the CB is not only bloated again but he has ich. The other fish are fine. I have some Kick Ich (no copper). It says on the bottle not to add it with other medicines. The last of 3 tetracycline does was added 5/8. Is it ok and should I even bother to add Kick Ich? Why is ich coming back on this fish with low salinty? Should I go a little lower. I have read people lowering it to .08 but I worry about my other two healthy fish. Occasionally the tang bullies the CB...is that possibly causing the ich again on him? The CB acts normally otherwise and is eating. The 6 week countdown started when all fish were ich free and now I have to reset. The fact that I have 3 fish in a 10 gallon tank (especially the tang) has me wishing the 6 weeks would be up already. This alone must be a stress.

05/10/2011, 12:46 PM	#3
briankmarsh1980 I'm a member of **!!!!!! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Maricopa, Arizona Posts: 2,127	you should go read the stickies on fish disease treatment, before you do anything __________________ My skim don't stink _______________________________________________________________ 210 gallons with stuff!!!!!!!

05/10/2011, 02:24 PM	#5
Dactylopterus Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 231	I didn't get this: "I think I will just let the SG drop via evaporation so it's nice and slow". SG doesn't drop down via evaporation, it increases. You have to remove some saltwater and the add some freshwater to decrease salinity. An ATO in your QT tank should help with the recurrent Ich maintaining an stable Hyposalinity, this is very important for having success on this treatment. Last edited by Dactylopterus; 05/10/2011 at 02:32 PM.

05/10/2011, 03:24 PM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I'd use carbon first just to be sure what strength I'm dosing. Recall that evap concentrates (raises) both salinity and medication levels and adding more water dilutes or weakens it. So best remove and dose again when you hit the salinity you're going to stay at for a while. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/11/2011, 12:53 PM	#11
James404 I <3 Acros Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,523	I run hypo at 1.008, this gives you enough leeway that when evaporation occurs you are still in hypo. I don't think 1.012 is effective, you need to keep it below 1.010. Also make sure your refractometer is calibrated frequently with a proper seawater calibration solution. __________________ 80g Deep Blue Rimless - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651295 225g Reef Savvy SPS Dominant - Retired http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1945361

05/10/2011, 02:00 PM	#4
windyridge Fish Mother Join Date: May 2011 Location: South Otselic, NY Posts: 1,403	Ok read the stickies, forgot that was covered here. So it looks like my next trick is to lower the SG further. My Kick ich has no copper and is 5-nitroimidazoles and related to the compound one sticky says not to use so I won't use it...at least not yet unless I dose it in the food as the post suggests if I get nowhere. I am also thinking the close quarters is not helping the angel. I think I will just let the SG drop via evaporation so it's nice and slow. I will also add Maracyn Oxy which should cover the bloat problem and is more broad spectrum then Tetracylcine. But can I add it while the tank is still red from the tetracycline or should we put back the carbon to remove the tetracycline first?

05/10/2011, 02:38 PM	#6
windyridge Fish Mother Join Date: May 2011 Location: South Otselic, NY Posts: 1,403	Sorry I got it backwards. Should I remove the residual tetracycline and start treatment with Maracyn? The tetracycline made the bloat disappear but maybe there were a few other bacteria which the broader spectrum antibiotic should help. Or can I just dump in the maracyn. Also it's a lot harder to see ich with a red dark tank.

05/10/2011, 05:55 PM	#8
windyridge Fish Mother Join Date: May 2011 Location: South Otselic, NY Posts: 1,403	What is the reason for changing the carbon filters every day? This is what it suggests in the ich thread on this forum. That's a tad expensive and the only place I've seen that mentioned in a hyposalinity treatment.

05/11/2011, 11:46 AM	#9
windyridge Fish Mother Join Date: May 2011 Location: South Otselic, NY Posts: 1,403	SPG 1.000, tang who looked ich free for a few days has ich again and is getting nipped at by clown and his fins are looking ragged as a result but he is still eating. Bloat did not improve in angel when added maracyn-oxy last night, and and mayhave gotten worse and he isn't eating....getting frustrated and don't want to kill the rest of my fish. Just when I thought I had it licked. Throughout all this the SPG has never gone above 1.012 and was a week at 1.011 and I have been decreasing it per ich thread. I guess I wait and see. Will finish out the maracyn oxy treatment (5 days) and cross my fingers. The good news is my soft and hard corals and both anemones as well as other assorted inverts in the main tank are thriving.

05/11/2011, 01:13 PM	#12
iLLwiLL Codename: Dutchess Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the danger zone Posts: 933	I just used some seachem kanaplex, metroplex and prime as a food additive and it worked amazingly well for my ich problem. might be worth a try. ~Will.

05/11/2011, 02:58 PM	#13
windyridge Fish Mother Join Date: May 2011 Location: South Otselic, NY Posts: 1,403	I meant 1.010 headed towards 1.009.....those darn decimals get me every time! Meanwhile I will lose the Angel, he is really bloated now, swimming at a 45 degree angle and his eyes are bulging. No more angels for us, this is the second one to go but admittedly the first one went because we tried to treat ich incorrectly using Cu and we surly killed him. But they are obviously bad karma for us. I will not do the 2nd dose of maracyn since the angel is kaput. The refractometer directions said it wasn't necessary to calibrate on arrival but to occasionally calibrate. Does ich really encyst on carbon, and is that why it is necessary to change the carbon filters daily when treating for ich? Thanks for all the advice!

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