where to purchase par meter???

Pallobi · 05/24/2011, 10:48 PM

As u read it

Any info?

Rockys_Pride · 05/24/2011, 10:58 PM

Your best bet is to see if your local club has a loaner, otherwise click here

125mph · 05/24/2011, 11:16 PM

I got mine at premium aquatics

Pallobi · 05/24/2011, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 125mph

I got mine at premium aquatics

Thanks guys... yea I was jus looking at that one...$335... says it has separate probes

snorvich · 05/25/2011, 05:27 AM

Remember that blue and royal blue LED don't properly register on PAR meters. But a great idea to have one if you are using dimmable LED lights.

Jeremy B. · 05/25/2011, 07:04 AM

Just out of curiosity here, where is everyone getting the info that blue and royal blue do not register correctly on par meters? I've seen this mentioned in a couple of places now, but I'm looking for the article that talks about this. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

rwb500 · 06/26/2011, 11:00 PM

bump for the above question^

i was under the impression that PAR meters fairly accurately measure everything from 400-700nm. blue led's are usually around 445nm, i believe, which is well within that range. so what gives?

ModAquatics · 06/27/2011, 06:02 AM

PAR meters measure an average from approx. 400-700nm. Specific color LEDs present a very narrow band of that spectrum so the average is less.

ksc · 06/27/2011, 08:00 AM

I don't think it has anything to do with whether they are led's or mh's...
http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/qua...lresponse.html

"The spectral response of the Apogee Sensor used in Quantum Meters and the Quantum Sensor is shown at right. As the figure indicates, the sensor underestimates the 400 to 500 nm wavelengths (blue light), overestimates the 550-650 wavelengths (yellow and orange light), and has little sensitivity above 650 nm (red light). Fortunately, common light sources are mixtures of colors and the spectral errors offset each other. The sensor measures green light (500-550 nm) accurately, so it can be used to measure the radiation inside and at the bottom of plant canopies."

125mph · 06/27/2011, 08:55 AM

It is not true that par meters cannot measure blue or royal LEDs. When I increase by blue or royal colors on my AI, the par rating goes up.

It is estimated the par meters under measure the LEDs by 15%. When I use my par meter, I just multiple the number by 1.15.

gcarroll · 06/27/2011, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksc

I don't think it has anything to do with whether they are led's or mh's...
http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/qua...lresponse.html

"The spectral response of the Apogee Sensor used in Quantum Meters and the Quantum Sensor is shown at right. As the figure indicates, the sensor underestimates the 400 to 500 nm wavelengths (blue light), overestimates the 550-650 wavelengths (yellow and orange light), and has little sensitivity above 650 nm (red light). Fortunately, common light sources are mixtures of colors and the spectral errors offset each other. The sensor measures green light (500-550 nm) accurately, so it can be used to measure the radiation inside and at the bottom of plant canopies."

You are correct. Even 20K metal halides and Blue T5 suffer the same underestimation as these LEDs. That being said, PAR is still by far, the best way for us to mearure the light levels in our tank.

WingoLED · 06/27/2011, 11:36 AM

If you are are using the apogee meter(at least for the the cheap one I got,) green will also register in the PAR value. When you increase the green LEDs, the PAR value also goes up even though we were told that green is not of much use in photosynthesis. It will not go up as much as the photo meter though because photo will multiply the value to a coefficient to better indicate how our eyes react to green. This fact, brings an interesting point where many of the reef LED implementations seems to able to bleach corals when the PAR numbers are not as high as the original Mh replaced. Mh, has a lot of green and also registered in the PAR. So when you match the 300 LED PAR(our blue and white) to 300 Mh PAR, they are not equal-the LED is much stronger.

rwb500 · 06/27/2011, 12:01 PM

i see the spectral response data in the apogee manual:

http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/man...-100200300.pdf

from 500nm to 575nm it does over-report significantly. so yes i see that it does over-report for green and most of yellow as well. thank you for that info.

however, at 445nm, it seems to match the "actual plant response" curve perfectly. this is exactly (or nearly exactly) where most blue LED's are. i dont know off the top of my head where white led's have a peak or peak(s). if anyone could add that to the discussion it would be great.

but anyway, from the discussion so far, it seems like it would be more accurate to say that PAR meters do work for LED's, and they do not work as well for metal halide. of course, when most people are using, measuring, and comparing PAR data with metal halides, MH par readings become the standard. so perhaps for now it is best for LED users and MH users to compare PAR data separately.

grigsy · 06/27/2011, 10:30 PM

Bought my PAR meter directly from apogee. Good customer service.

mykol · 06/27/2011, 11:13 PM

Well you don't state how often or long you'll be using it, but have you asked your lfs if they have one? One of my lfs has one and rents it out for $30 for a day. Plenty of time to run test on one fixture.

05/24/2011, 10:48 PM	#1
Pallobi CTARS, BRS & OSRAS Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 7,001	where to purchase par meter??? As u read it Any info? __________________ Zoas & Palys

05/24/2011, 11:16 PM	#3
125mph Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,405	I got mine at premium aquatics __________________ 180G Rimless Starphire 72x24x24 (Miracles) 3 x Ecotech XR15w G4 Pro \| T5 x 4 \| 2 x Mp40wQD GEO 612 Cal Reactor \| Vertex Omega 150 Skimmer \| Chaeto Reactor Synergy Reef CL44 Sump \| Neptune Apex

05/25/2011, 05:27 AM	#5
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	Remember that blue and royal blue LED don't properly register on PAR meters. But a great idea to have one if you are using dimmable LED lights. __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

06/27/2011, 08:55 AM	#10
125mph Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,405	It is not true that par meters cannot measure blue or royal LEDs. When I increase by blue or royal colors on my AI, the par rating goes up. It is estimated the par meters under measure the LEDs by 15%. When I use my par meter, I just multiple the number by 1.15. __________________ 180G Rimless Starphire 72x24x24 (Miracles) 3 x Ecotech XR15w G4 Pro \| T5 x 4 \| 2 x Mp40wQD GEO 612 Cal Reactor \| Vertex Omega 150 Skimmer \| Chaeto Reactor Synergy Reef CL44 Sump \| Neptune Apex

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05/24/2011, 10:58 PM	#2
Rockys_Pride Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: colorado Posts: 490	Your best bet is to see if your local club has a loaner, otherwise click here

05/25/2011, 07:04 AM	#6
Jeremy B. Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN / Muncie, IN Posts: 8,219	Just out of curiosity here, where is everyone getting the info that blue and royal blue do not register correctly on par meters? I've seen this mentioned in a couple of places now, but I'm looking for the article that talks about this. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

06/26/2011, 11:00 PM	#7
rwb500 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,694	bump for the above question^ i was under the impression that PAR meters fairly accurately measure everything from 400-700nm. blue led's are usually around 445nm, i believe, which is well within that range. so what gives?

06/27/2011, 06:02 AM	#8
ModAquatics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 7	PAR meters measure an average from approx. 400-700nm. Specific color LEDs present a very narrow band of that spectrum so the average is less.

06/27/2011, 08:00 AM	#9
ksc Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 415	I don't think it has anything to do with whether they are led's or mh's... http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/qua...lresponse.html "The spectral response of the Apogee Sensor used in Quantum Meters and the Quantum Sensor is shown at right. As the figure indicates, the sensor underestimates the 400 to 500 nm wavelengths (blue light), overestimates the 550-650 wavelengths (yellow and orange light), and has little sensitivity above 650 nm (red light). Fortunately, common light sources are mixtures of colors and the spectral errors offset each other. The sensor measures green light (500-550 nm) accurately, so it can be used to measure the radiation inside and at the bottom of plant canopies."

06/27/2011, 11:36 AM	#12
WingoLED Registered Member. Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 258	If you are are using the apogee meter(at least for the the cheap one I got,) green will also register in the PAR value. When you increase the green LEDs, the PAR value also goes up even though we were told that green is not of much use in photosynthesis. It will not go up as much as the photo meter though because photo will multiply the value to a coefficient to better indicate how our eyes react to green. This fact, brings an interesting point where many of the reef LED implementations seems to able to bleach corals when the PAR numbers are not as high as the original Mh replaced. Mh, has a lot of green and also registered in the PAR. So when you match the 300 LED PAR(our blue and white) to 300 Mh PAR, they are not equal-the LED is much stronger.

06/27/2011, 12:01 PM	#13
rwb500 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,694	i see the spectral response data in the apogee manual: http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/man...-100200300.pdf from 500nm to 575nm it does over-report significantly. so yes i see that it does over-report for green and most of yellow as well. thank you for that info. however, at 445nm, it seems to match the "actual plant response" curve perfectly. this is exactly (or nearly exactly) where most blue LED's are. i dont know off the top of my head where white led's have a peak or peak(s). if anyone could add that to the discussion it would be great. but anyway, from the discussion so far, it seems like it would be more accurate to say that PAR meters do work for LED's, and they do not work as well for metal halide. of course, when most people are using, measuring, and comparing PAR data with metal halides, MH par readings become the standard. so perhaps for now it is best for LED users and MH users to compare PAR data separately.

06/27/2011, 10:30 PM	#14
grigsy Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 2,307	Bought my PAR meter directly from apogee. Good customer service.

06/27/2011, 11:13 PM	#15
mykol Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 101	Well you don't state how often or long you'll be using it, but have you asked your lfs if they have one? One of my lfs has one and rents it out for $30 for a day. Plenty of time to run test on one fixture.