define: live rock

Ron Reefman · 09/05/2011, 07:55 AM

Just a simple question. What do you mean when you say "live rock"? I got into a discussion about LR and found the person I was talking to had a very different definition of live rock than I do. So I'd like to know what you all think. I know, scary, but lets try it anyway.
Thanks.

Curious George · 09/05/2011, 08:38 AM

Still waiting for my rock to move

good one......

cloak · 09/05/2011, 10:40 AM

To me, it would have to be rock with a diverse population on it. The glass alone on my tank can process ammonia to nitrite.

Ron Reefman · 09/05/2011, 11:38 AM

Just so my point of view is out there, I have rock in my sump that has been there for a year. Not much light so it looks like dry rock, more or less. But to me, that's live rock that could go into a new set up and work right away. It's LR, just not pretty. Ha!

Ron Reefman · 09/06/2011, 05:56 AM

Well, I guess what we mean when we say "Live Rock" is open to debate. I'd like to see more feedback on this. Thanks to those who have voted already.

fishysteve · 09/06/2011, 08:26 AM

Ron, Im on your side. I don't think it needs to have visible life on it to be considered live rock, it just needs to have the bacteria capable of keeping a tank stable.

dwarf_angels31 · 09/06/2011, 08:30 AM

I agree.. when I think live rock I thing rock from the ocean..but in any sense. Anyrock can become live rock after so long , doesn't need light but as long as there is the bacteria like you mentioned

L_Spec · 09/06/2011, 08:35 AM

I think any rock that can kick start a new aquarium with all the beneficial bacteria is LR to me and anything else is merely a bonus. One with more diversity of life is just a more sought after type of Live Rock.

Agu · 09/06/2011, 09:11 AM

IME the definition of live rock has changed over the years. My first order of live rock was through an LFS that didn't even carry live rock so they had to special order it. They asked if I wanted cured or raw rock, I chose raw.

It was delivered in a sealed bucket direct from Figi in submerged in water. When I opened the bucket the rock was not only covered with coraline but also had macro algaes, snails, hermit crabs and other critters I couldn't identify at the time.

The only comparable rock available now is the aquacultured rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater and other domestic rock farmers. You can still find quality imported live rock, but most of the rest of the "live rock" looks more like base rock that sat in a vendors tank for ten minutes.

nvdiz · 09/06/2011, 09:19 AM

i think of live rock as rock with bacteria that are capable of nitrification.

bellis31 · 09/06/2011, 09:23 AM

I think when your talking Display Tank Live Rock it's a combo of both beneficial bacteria, critters and algae. In the SUMP (IMHO) it's main purpose is to provide a home for beneficial bacteria.

cloak · 09/06/2011, 11:06 AM

Does it have to be rock? I've had the heater in my tank for well over two years now, it's fully capable of processing ammonia to nitrite... So's the glass, the bottom half of my skimmer, my return pump, part of my float valve, the powerheads etc.

Agu · 09/06/2011, 07:04 PM

Yes it has to be rock or equivalent to provide natural filtration. Water diffusing through the rock and it's anaerobic areas complete the cycle of ammonia,nitrite and nitrate. Fowler with out live rock go through the cycle where waste is turned into nitrates. Live rock continues the cycle with natural nitrate reduction (aka NNR).

Reefing Newbie · 09/06/2011, 08:21 PM

I would have to say a combo of rock that is able to process ammonia and nitrite and has a has a large diversity of life on it. All depends on where you put as others have mentioned. It is the same when in your sump or in your display. Just one looks more attractive lol. I have rock in my fuge with enough light to maintain a nice sized ball of chaeto, and it looks like regular rock to me.

NewbyReefer · 09/06/2011, 08:31 PM

I had 50/50 when I started(live/dry). But now that its all over 2 years old in the tank I consider it all LR. All has little buggers on in and most has good coraline algea growth on it.

AlexS95 · 09/06/2011, 09:01 PM

After having Tampa Bay Saltwater rock, it is hard to call other rock live'. I had a conversation with my mom yesterday about how this live rock was way cooler than what LFS' sell as live rock- it seems like a scam for them to call it live rock.

thcmusic · 09/06/2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexS95

After having Tampa Bay Saltwater rock, it is hard to call other rock live'. I had a conversation with my mom yesterday about how this live rock was way cooler than what LFS' sell as live rock- it seems like a scam for them to call it live rock.

+1 My sentiments exactly!

cloak · 09/06/2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agu

Yes it has to be rock or equivalent to provide natural filtration. Water diffusing through the rock and it's anaerobic areas complete the cycle of ammonia,nitrite and nitrate. Fowler with out live rock go through the cycle where waste is turned into nitrates. Live rock continues the cycle with natural nitrate reduction (aka NNR).

Let's hope so...

What are your thoughts on a DSB? JK.

jeffesaurusrex · 09/07/2011, 01:02 AM

When I buy live rock, it's a given that it has nitrogen processing bacteria. But I also expect it to have more complex life such as worms, sponges, forminiferans (sp), and a crab or urchin hiding out here and there if you're lucky.

Also I read on this site that somebody ordered rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater and there was a Goby hiding in their rocks. A freaking FISH, in the live rock.

fishysteve · 09/07/2011, 05:06 AM

I bought some Tonga rock years ago and got a baby pipefish. Unfortunately it didn't make it. The little guy was about two inches long.

Digitalelectric · 09/07/2011, 06:07 AM

If Im going to spend big $$$ on rock it better be the whole package. I want purple rock with algaes, sponges, critters and the lot. When I got into the hobby years back my LFS carried the most amazing rock. There was more going on in my first tank than any tank Ive had since. Now if I go to any LFS in town I get to choose between the grey rocks with some coralline, or the purple rocks that are "premium" and priced to match.
/Rant

Ron Reefman · 09/07/2011, 07:10 AM

OK, I guess I'd like to add something here. I understand that when you go out to buy LR, most of us want the 'extras' as well. Heck, I know I do. But does it HAVE TO HAVE the extras just to be called Live Rock? So I'm not asking what do you want to buy. I'm asking for the 'acceptable definition' of Live Rock.

And thanks for all the feedback guys. I appreciate the info.

nvdiz · 09/07/2011, 08:19 AM

in my own summed up definition again, LR is rock with N fixing bacteria.

You wouldnt call dry rock with coral, algae, or whatever live.

So no, it doesnt need the extras to be called LR

AlexS95 · 09/07/2011, 11:30 AM

TBS rock is cheaper than most LFS at $5/lb, if you can get past the shipping it's great.

Agu · 09/07/2011, 04:54 PM

I'll go with the definition in "The Reef Aquarium " (Volume one, page 518).

"live rock - calcareous material formed by coral skeletons,shells and coralline algae (usually) that contains algae, microorganisms, worms, crustaceans, sponges, and other invertebrates both on the inside and on the outside. Rocks of other origin, ie. volcanic, that have become encrusted by marinelife are also called live rocks. "

View Poll Results: What does "live rock" mean?
Rock that has the bacteria to process ammonia a & nitrite	57	62.64%
Rock that has coraline algae on it	3	3.30%
Rock that has a diverse population of life on it	40	43.96%
Rock that can walk around in your tank	3	3.30%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

09/05/2011, 07:55 AM	#1
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	define: live rock Just a simple question. What do you mean when you say "live rock"? I got into a discussion about LR and found the person I was talking to had a very different definition of live rock than I do. So I'd like to know what you all think. I know, scary, but lets try it anyway. Thanks. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017 Last edited by Ron Reefman; 09/05/2011 at 08:02 AM.

09/05/2011, 11:38 AM	#4
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	Just so my point of view is out there, I have rock in my sump that has been there for a year. Not much light so it looks like dry rock, more or less. But to me, that's live rock that could go into a new set up and work right away. It's LR, just not pretty. Ha! __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

09/06/2011, 05:56 AM	#5
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	Well, I guess what we mean when we say "Live Rock" is open to debate. I'd like to see more feedback on this. Thanks to those who have voted already. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

09/06/2011, 08:26 AM	#6
fishysteve Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,804	Ron, Im on your side. I don't think it needs to have visible life on it to be considered live rock, it just needs to have the bacteria capable of keeping a tank stable. __________________ On a break

09/05/2011, 08:38 AM	#2
Curious George Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 748	Still waiting for my rock to move good one......

09/05/2011, 10:40 AM	#3
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	To me, it would have to be rock with a diverse population on it. The glass alone on my tank can process ammonia to nitrite.

09/06/2011, 08:30 AM	#7
dwarf_angels31 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: O-H I-O Posts: 67	I agree.. when I think live rock I thing rock from the ocean..but in any sense. Anyrock can become live rock after so long , doesn't need light but as long as there is the bacteria like you mentioned

09/06/2011, 08:35 AM	#8
L_Spec Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Regina Posts: 133	I think any rock that can kick start a new aquarium with all the beneficial bacteria is LR to me and anything else is merely a bonus. One with more diversity of life is just a more sought after type of Live Rock.

09/06/2011, 09:11 AM	#9
Agu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 30,279	IME the definition of live rock has changed over the years. My first order of live rock was through an LFS that didn't even carry live rock so they had to special order it. They asked if I wanted cured or raw rock, I chose raw. It was delivered in a sealed bucket direct from Figi in submerged in water. When I opened the bucket the rock was not only covered with coraline but also had macro algaes, snails, hermit crabs and other critters I couldn't identify at the time. The only comparable rock available now is the aquacultured rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater and other domestic rock farmers. You can still find quality imported live rock, but most of the rest of the "live rock" looks more like base rock that sat in a vendors tank for ten minutes. __________________ Less technology , more biology . Current Tank Info: 30 gallon half cube and 5.5, both reef tanks

09/06/2011, 09:19 AM	#10
nvdiz Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Skokie Posts: 1,345	i think of live rock as rock with bacteria that are capable of nitrification. __________________ Nano Cube 24 <----- Look at pics in my albums Current Tank Info: SPS Biocube 29

09/06/2011, 09:23 AM	#11
bellis31 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sacramento, Ca Posts: 1,021	I think when your talking Display Tank Live Rock it's a combo of both beneficial bacteria, critters and algae. In the SUMP (IMHO) it's main purpose is to provide a home for beneficial bacteria. __________________ 80g Custom + 29g Sump BM Curve 5 Skimmer - Eheim 1262 Return Pump 2 Vortech MP10wes + 2 Vortech MP40wes 2 Radion G3's + Apex Jr Controller + WXM

09/06/2011, 11:06 AM	#12
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	Does it have to be rock? I've had the heater in my tank for well over two years now, it's fully capable of processing ammonia to nitrite... So's the glass, the bottom half of my skimmer, my return pump, part of my float valve, the powerheads etc.

09/06/2011, 07:04 PM	#13
Agu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 30,279	Yes it has to be rock or equivalent to provide natural filtration. Water diffusing through the rock and it's anaerobic areas complete the cycle of ammonia,nitrite and nitrate. Fowler with out live rock go through the cycle where waste is turned into nitrates. Live rock continues the cycle with natural nitrate reduction (aka NNR). __________________ Less technology , more biology . Current Tank Info: 30 gallon half cube and 5.5, both reef tanks

09/06/2011, 08:21 PM	#14
Reefing Newbie Registered Member. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,435	I would have to say a combo of rock that is able to process ammonia and nitrite and has a has a large diversity of life on it. All depends on where you put as others have mentioned. It is the same when in your sump or in your display. Just one looks more attractive lol. I have rock in my fuge with enough light to maintain a nice sized ball of chaeto, and it looks like regular rock to me.

09/06/2011, 08:31 PM	#15
NewbyReefer Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 756	I had 50/50 when I started(live/dry). But now that its all over 2 years old in the tank I consider it all LR. All has little buggers on in and most has good coraline algea growth on it. __________________ ¸. ·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸ Current Tank Info: 40 Gal Super High Mix Reef w/120watte LED

09/06/2011, 09:01 PM	#16
AlexS95 Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Brandon, FL Posts: 1,065	After having Tampa Bay Saltwater rock, it is hard to call other rock live'. I had a conversation with my mom yesterday about how this live rock was way cooler than what LFS' sell as live rock- it seems like a scam for them to call it live rock.

09/07/2011, 01:02 AM	#19
jeffesaurusrex Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Terre Haute, IN Posts: 322	When I buy live rock, it's a given that it has nitrogen processing bacteria. But I also expect it to have more complex life such as worms, sponges, forminiferans (sp), and a crab or urchin hiding out here and there if you're lucky. Also I read on this site that somebody ordered rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater and there was a Goby hiding in their rocks. A freaking FISH, in the live rock. __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 29g Biocube - StevesLEDs - MP10 - Apex - Tunze

09/07/2011, 05:06 AM	#20
fishysteve Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,804	I bought some Tonga rock years ago and got a baby pipefish. Unfortunately it didn't make it. The little guy was about two inches long. __________________ On a break

09/07/2011, 06:07 AM	#21
Digitalelectric Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 422	If Im going to spend big $$$ on rock it better be the whole package. I want purple rock with algaes, sponges, critters and the lot. When I got into the hobby years back my LFS carried the most amazing rock. There was more going on in my first tank than any tank Ive had since. Now if I go to any LFS in town I get to choose between the grey rocks with some coralline, or the purple rocks that are "premium" and priced to match. /Rant

09/07/2011, 07:10 AM	#22
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	OK, I guess I'd like to add something here. I understand that when you go out to buy LR, most of us want the 'extras' as well. Heck, I know I do. But does it HAVE TO HAVE the extras just to be called Live Rock? So I'm not asking what do you want to buy. I'm asking for the 'acceptable definition' of Live Rock. And thanks for all the feedback guys. I appreciate the info. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

09/07/2011, 08:19 AM	#23
nvdiz Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Skokie Posts: 1,345	in my own summed up definition again, LR is rock with N fixing bacteria. You wouldnt call dry rock with coral, algae, or whatever live. So no, it doesnt need the extras to be called LR __________________ Nano Cube 24 <----- Look at pics in my albums Current Tank Info: SPS Biocube 29

09/07/2011, 11:30 AM	#24
AlexS95 Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Brandon, FL Posts: 1,065	TBS rock is cheaper than most LFS at $5/lb, if you can get past the shipping it's great.

09/07/2011, 04:54 PM	#25
Agu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 30,279	I'll go with the definition in "The Reef Aquarium " (Volume one, page 518). "live rock - calcareous material formed by coral skeletons,shells and coralline algae (usually) that contains algae, microorganisms, worms, crustaceans, sponges, and other invertebrates both on the inside and on the outside. Rocks of other origin, ie. volcanic, that have become encrusted by marinelife are also called live rocks. " __________________ Less technology , more biology . Current Tank Info: 30 gallon half cube and 5.5, both reef tanks

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