help!! hammer coral and yellow tang sudden death!!

spamreefnew · 10/13/2011, 09:52 AM

My reef has been set up for years now without issue. even went 4 days without power in that storm, and no losses! but lately I have having an overnight/early morning killer! Last week I had woken up to dead sps and dying LPS corals. I was fermenting some beer in the basement where the sump also is so I thought that it might be the co2 causing my ph to drop. That was not the case,I got a test kit a few days ago and my ph remains a constant 8.3 at all hours. Last week when this happened I ran carbon and did a waterchange and everything went back to normal within hours. Today I woke up to a retracted hammer coral and all of a sudden my yellow tang became paralised and dying! He is laying on the bottom and will give a slight twitch every few seconds,he was fine 2 hours ago!!

45 gallon cube diy leds shallow sand bed, remote 4" deep sandbed with mangroves and ATS as filtration

ph=8.3
mag=1300
alk=9 dkh
ca=450
temp=80-81 f
sg=1.026

please bounce some ideas off me! the water has a slight haze also.

I will also try to test the ph around 4 am because this is the only time of day that I have not tested it. however I dont think that the ph could swing from 8.3 down to 6.5 then back up to 8.3 from 1 am to lets say 6 am......when i am testing...? could it?

Urchinhead · 10/13/2011, 10:17 AM

pH swings that high would be very unusual. Possible but highly unlikely. If you have a refugium you can run the lights on it in reverse cycle to what your tank lights are.

What sounds unusual to me is the haze in the water. Is there anything that could have contaminated the tank? Window cleaner, materials from your beer brewing, etc?

Could the tang have encountered the feeder tentacles of the hammer and been stung/captured and the subsequent flailing of the tang caused the hammer to retract?

Is there anything in the tank that could be spawning (like Calerpa etc) or dumping allelopathic chemicals into the water like a leather coral?

power boat jim · 10/13/2011, 10:24 AM

Is it possible someone poured some of the contents of the beer tank into the sump? The hazy water could be a bacteria bloom caused by such a thing. (Just a guess)

stingythingy45 · 10/13/2011, 10:28 AM

That temp is a little high.

EllieSuz · 10/13/2011, 10:36 AM

Okay, this is just a guess...is there any chance your remote deep sand bed got disturbed in any way? Also, I've heard of them just going "bad" too, in which case you should be testing for ammonia. Might be worth thinking about.

spamreefnew · 10/13/2011, 01:47 PM

the rdsb is only about 2 months old

nothing has goton into the tank water

the hammer is huge(50 heads) and every head is retracted and some are already dead

the tang had NO visable marking on his body

thanks for the replies maybe i will get an ammonia test kit tonight

my other inverts such as shrimp and soft corals all are fine .....

sporto0 · 10/13/2011, 01:59 PM

There has to be a toxic explanation to such a dramatic event to have occurred, a simple change in a few water parameters will not cause major losses such as you are experiencing. I know you have been racking your brain about this, I suggest you go over any possible way the tank could have been contaminated. Running GAC & water changes may alleviate some of the symptoms, good luck man, I'm sorry for your losses, I hate to read these kind of threads, makes me sad.

spamreefnew · 10/13/2011, 06:19 PM

I think I found it! the g-dam remote sand bed! I cut off the supply to it and dumped it in the back yard. The sand was charcoal gray and pink and smelled of rotten eggs.

did a 30% water change also

keywestcoralboy · 10/13/2011, 06:31 PM

Good to hear... Is the lps guuna make it?

MarineSniper · 10/13/2011, 06:35 PM

Glad that you found the problem

A little surprised at "going out to buy an ammonia test kit today". I would follow through with that, regardless. Some of the little stick ons are incredibly sensitive and I would at least get one of those. It can be put in you sump where it isn't an eyesore. It will turn at even the slightest level of NH alerting you to any possible problem before it becomes an issue

I hope your tang pulls through. Mine is extremely social and entertaining; I'd hate to ever lose him

power boat jim · 10/13/2011, 07:17 PM

Nothing like a little hydrogen sulfide to destroy a tank. Same thing happened to my sand bed several years back. Sorry I didnt think that possibility earlier. Trust me you wont miss the sand bed (cr*p trap as I call it). Hope all recovers.

spamreefnew · 10/13/2011, 08:17 PM

the lps is looking better but not great

have not needed an ammonia kit in years

this almost makes me want to siphon the sand out of display tank too!

"cr+p trap" LOL

Thank you for all the help and kind words

power boat jim · 10/13/2011, 08:34 PM

If the bed is only an inch or so in the display tank, its no worry. I just stir mine up every now and then with a piece of pvc and use a turkey baster to get behind the rocks. I do a water change while the tank is cloudy. Have not had a single sand related problem since!!

sporto0 · 10/13/2011, 08:41 PM

Alright! I'm glad you found the culprit, I knew you would & I was correct in assuming that a toxin was present, Hydrogen Sulfide is a killer in large amounts. Water changes & GAC, as have been suggested already will help & hopefully you will have experienced the worst of it.

Meshmez · 10/13/2011, 08:51 PM

Is the pink sand an indicator? when I look at my DT tank from the bottom I see pink, green and some brown.... i have about a 2" sand bed..

EllieSuz · 10/13/2011, 10:14 PM

It doesn't surprise me that it ended up being the sand bed. I'm glad I was able to point you in the right direction. A shallow sand bed should never be the problem. When you want to clean it, vacuum it. Stirring it up can bring on troubles too. I use a small diameter vacuum tube. When it begins to fill with sand, I put my finger on the end of the hose until the sand falls back to the bottom of the tank. This way only the dirty water ends up siphoning out. Dirty water out, new water in...presto, a water change!

maroun.c · 10/13/2011, 11:04 PM

Glad you found the culprit but what would cause a 2 month old RDSB to go bad in only 2 months? was the flow on top of it not enough or did the flow stop causing it to go bad and then flow was restarted?

10/13/2011, 09:52 AM	#1
spamreefnew Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: rhodeisland Posts: 1,491	help!! hammer coral and yellow tang sudden death!! My reef has been set up for years now without issue. even went 4 days without power in that storm, and no losses! but lately I have having an overnight/early morning killer! Last week I had woken up to dead sps and dying LPS corals. I was fermenting some beer in the basement where the sump also is so I thought that it might be the co2 causing my ph to drop. That was not the case,I got a test kit a few days ago and my ph remains a constant 8.3 at all hours. Last week when this happened I ran carbon and did a waterchange and everything went back to normal within hours. Today I woke up to a retracted hammer coral and all of a sudden my yellow tang became paralised and dying! He is laying on the bottom and will give a slight twitch every few seconds,he was fine 2 hours ago!! 45 gallon cube diy leds shallow sand bed, remote 4" deep sandbed with mangroves and ATS as filtration ph=8.3 mag=1300 alk=9 dkh ca=450 temp=80-81 f sg=1.026 please bounce some ideas off me! the water has a slight haze also. I will also try to test the ph around 4 am because this is the only time of day that I have not tested it. however I dont think that the ph could swing from 8.3 down to 6.5 then back up to 8.3 from 1 am to lets say 6 am......when i am testing...? could it?

10/13/2011, 10:28 AM	#4
stingythingy45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: MA Posts: 3,296	That temp is a little high. __________________ Bob Current Tank Info: 90 gallon,mixed Reef,2-250 watt Optix 3 pendants(Phoenix 14K)2-54 watt T5 Super actnics ,ASM G-2 Gate/recirc mods,70 gal. basement sump,20L ref

10/13/2011, 10:36 AM	#5
EllieSuz Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 3,858	Okay, this is just a guess...is there any chance your remote deep sand bed got disturbed in any way? Also, I've heard of them just going "bad" too, in which case you should be testing for ammonia. Might be worth thinking about. __________________ "You can't learn this hobby one question at a time." (Mr. Tuskfish) Eileen Current Tank Info: I'm out of the hobby, but used to have a60 gal. reef, refugium in sump, Internal Mag 9 return, SC 302 skimmer, two Maxi-Jet 1200's modded, four bulb T5 Lighting, Reefkeeper Lite Controller with three PC4's, Little Fishes GFO reactor.

10/13/2011, 06:31 PM	#9
keywestcoralboy Executive water changer Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 214	Good to hear... Is the lps guuna make it? __________________ 70 nm commute to Tortuga, but whose stopping at Tortuga? Current Tank Info: 150 gal reef, 65 gal reef, 8 gal bio cube reef.... dedication to the game

10/13/2011, 10:14 PM	#16
EllieSuz Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 3,858	It doesn't surprise me that it ended up being the sand bed. I'm glad I was able to point you in the right direction. A shallow sand bed should never be the problem. When you want to clean it, vacuum it. Stirring it up can bring on troubles too. I use a small diameter vacuum tube. When it begins to fill with sand, I put my finger on the end of the hose until the sand falls back to the bottom of the tank. This way only the dirty water ends up siphoning out. Dirty water out, new water in...presto, a water change! __________________ "You can't learn this hobby one question at a time." (Mr. Tuskfish) Eileen Current Tank Info: I'm out of the hobby, but used to have a60 gal. reef, refugium in sump, Internal Mag 9 return, SC 302 skimmer, two Maxi-Jet 1200's modded, four bulb T5 Lighting, Reefkeeper Lite Controller with three PC4's, Little Fishes GFO reactor.

10/13/2011, 10:17 AM	#2
Urchinhead Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Gabriel, California Posts: 681	pH swings that high would be very unusual. Possible but highly unlikely. If you have a refugium you can run the lights on it in reverse cycle to what your tank lights are. What sounds unusual to me is the haze in the water. Is there anything that could have contaminated the tank? Window cleaner, materials from your beer brewing, etc? Could the tang have encountered the feeder tentacles of the hammer and been stung/captured and the subsequent flailing of the tang caused the hammer to retract? Is there anything in the tank that could be spawning (like Calerpa etc) or dumping allelopathic chemicals into the water like a leather coral?

10/13/2011, 10:24 AM	#3
power boat jim Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wisconsin, The big peninsula Posts: 2,100	Is it possible someone poured some of the contents of the beer tank into the sump? The hazy water could be a bacteria bloom caused by such a thing. (Just a guess)

10/13/2011, 01:47 PM	#6
spamreefnew Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: rhodeisland Posts: 1,491	the rdsb is only about 2 months old nothing has goton into the tank water the hammer is huge(50 heads) and every head is retracted and some are already dead the tang had NO visable marking on his body thanks for the replies maybe i will get an ammonia test kit tonight my other inverts such as shrimp and soft corals all are fine .....

10/13/2011, 01:59 PM	#7
sporto0 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa. Posts: 2,924	There has to be a toxic explanation to such a dramatic event to have occurred, a simple change in a few water parameters will not cause major losses such as you are experiencing. I know you have been racking your brain about this, I suggest you go over any possible way the tank could have been contaminated. Running GAC & water changes may alleviate some of the symptoms, good luck man, I'm sorry for your losses, I hate to read these kind of threads, makes me sad.

10/13/2011, 06:19 PM	#8
spamreefnew Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: rhodeisland Posts: 1,491	I think I found it! the g-dam remote sand bed! I cut off the supply to it and dumped it in the back yard. The sand was charcoal gray and pink and smelled of rotten eggs. did a 30% water change also

10/13/2011, 06:35 PM	#10
MarineSniper Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 554	Glad that you found the problem A little surprised at "going out to buy an ammonia test kit today". I would follow through with that, regardless. Some of the little stick ons are incredibly sensitive and I would at least get one of those. It can be put in you sump where it isn't an eyesore. It will turn at even the slightest level of NH alerting you to any possible problem before it becomes an issue I hope your tang pulls through. Mine is extremely social and entertaining; I'd hate to ever lose him

10/13/2011, 07:17 PM	#11
power boat jim Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wisconsin, The big peninsula Posts: 2,100	Nothing like a little hydrogen sulfide to destroy a tank. Same thing happened to my sand bed several years back. Sorry I didnt think that possibility earlier. Trust me you wont miss the sand bed (cr*p trap as I call it). Hope all recovers.

10/13/2011, 08:17 PM	#12
spamreefnew Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: rhodeisland Posts: 1,491	the lps is looking better but not great have not needed an ammonia kit in years this almost makes me want to siphon the sand out of display tank too! "cr+p trap" LOL Thank you for all the help and kind words

10/13/2011, 08:34 PM	#13
power boat jim Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wisconsin, The big peninsula Posts: 2,100	If the bed is only an inch or so in the display tank, its no worry. I just stir mine up every now and then with a piece of pvc and use a turkey baster to get behind the rocks. I do a water change while the tank is cloudy. Have not had a single sand related problem since!!

10/13/2011, 08:41 PM	#14
sporto0 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa. Posts: 2,924	Alright! I'm glad you found the culprit, I knew you would & I was correct in assuming that a toxin was present, Hydrogen Sulfide is a killer in large amounts. Water changes & GAC, as have been suggested already will help & hopefully you will have experienced the worst of it.

10/13/2011, 08:51 PM	#15
Meshmez Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,030	Is the pink sand an indicator? when I look at my DT tank from the bottom I see pink, green and some brown.... i have about a 2" sand bed..

10/13/2011, 11:04 PM	#17
maroun.c Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Lebanon Posts: 6,111	Glad you found the culprit but what would cause a 2 month old RDSB to go bad in only 2 months? was the flow on top of it not enough or did the flow stop causing it to go bad and then flow was restarted? __________________ 390 G mixed reef build Current Tank Info: 390G mixed reef

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