can someone explain from when a fish is caught to when it arrives at the lfs?

[peasofme]

can someone explain what happens from when a fish is caught in the wild to when it arrives at my lfs? what about for tank bred fish?

also, most lfs here get shipments on tuesday, some on thursday, some on saturday. what's the difference? i live in northern california.

[djkms]

You mean chain of custody?

Usually:
Diver>Transhipper>Wholesaler>LFS>You

Days shipped to the LFS really doesnt mean much. A wholesaler can have a fish for a day or a week, it really just depends.

[harlequinacro]

1. Fish get collected by divers
2. Divers bring fish to Transhippers
3. Transhippers sell to Wholesalers in US
4. Wholesalers sell to Stores.

There also can be a lot of inbetween "jobbers" along the line until it arrives at a local fish store. From the time the fish is collected to the time it arrives in a LFS, the fish has gone through a lot of stress. Not to mention all the different tanks it's been in. There are some stores in the US that deal direct with the divers and transhippers.

[IslandCrow]

I general, the fish is caught by someone halfway across the world probably making no more than a few pennies per fish. From there, it's put on a boat, about half of them die in transit. It arrives at a mass distribution location in the States, then they're shipped off to wholesalers where another 10% or so die off, and finally to your LFS, where a few more die off in transit. I'm pulling the percentages out of my butt, but the point is, a significant number of the fish that were originally caught are going to die in transit, so if you can find captive bred fish, even if they're a little more expensive, I'd highly recommend it. That's unfortunately not possible with many species, however.

As far as when the stores get their shipments, that's simply when they've set it up with their wholesaler. There's nothing special about the date.

[raskal311]

I would guess from diver to LFS would be around a week.

[peasofme]

maybe 1 out of every 100 fish i see is labelled as tank bred and usually just clownfish

[cloak]

Check these out.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/eb/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/eb/index.php

[ocmikep]

Thanks for posting those articles. Good read.

[peasofme]

possibly 99% of fish are caught using cyanide, 99% of those fish die, and 1% make it to the lfs. disgusting.

[Amoore311]

Just had a speaker at a local club event talk about this sustainability, and a lot of his talk got into the chain of custody. Ret Talbot was the gentleman's name, he is an editor for Coral Magazine. There was a lot of great info about expanding the reaches of responsible collection even further, and how certain individuals are building up Papua New Guinea to be a 100% sustainable harvest area for fish.

Cyanide is hardly ever used anymore. It's cheaper for the local divers to net catch now, but in very remote places it can still be found in use.

[SneakyPete]

interesting articles cloak.

Anybody who has experience with Liveaquaria, how do they ship their corals? Do they do the paper towel method or send them in water?

[djkms]

Originally Posted by SneakyPete

interesting articles cloak.

Anybody who has experience with Liveaquaria, how do they ship their corals? Do they do the paper towel method or send them in water?

They are shipped in water.

[Palting]

Originally Posted by djkms

They are shipped in water.

Weird, isn't it? Especially after reading those articles.

I ordered a large colony of Blastomusa welsi using a $200.00 gift certificate for partial payment . Anyway, it arrived in a big bag half-filled with water with the bag itself in a box filled with styrofoam and an ice pack, via overnight shipping. I assume it was in that bag and box for at least 12 hours, if not more. It came with instructions on drip acclimating, which I followed. It survived with no tissue loss, and thrives to this day growing new heads over a year later.

So this one experience contradicts those nice articles. What's right??

[PDAlber]

Originally Posted by peasofme

possibly 99% of fish are caught using cyanide, 99% of those fish die, and 1% make it to the lfs. disgusting.

I doubt that there are many collectors using cyanide, other than in remote third-world countries. However, quinaldine is quite common. It is an anethetic used both in the capture and tranport of fish. Divers use it to immobilize fish, that otherwise would be much more difficult, and take much more time, to catch. It is often used in cunjunction with nets.

I dive regularly with a commercial collector, who primarily uses nets. Here in Florida, there are strict licensing regulations, as well as size and possession limits on commercial marinelife collection. The use of "Q" requires a special permit. The fish are sold to wholesalers, who ship them to both LFS's and wholesalers in other parts of the country.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Palting

Weird, isn't it? Especially after reading those articles.

I ordered a large colony of Blastomusa welsi using a $200.00 gift certificate for partial payment . Anyway, it arrived in a big bag half-filled with water with the bag itself in a box filled with styrofoam and an ice pack, via overnight shipping. I assume it was in that bag and box for at least 12 hours, if not more. It came with instructions on drip acclimating, which I followed. It survived with no tissue loss, and thrives to this day growing new heads over a year later.

So this one experience contradicts those nice articles. What's right??

Your experience typifies my own. (probably close to 100 shipments of coral, fish, inverts, etc) Arrive alive and thrive is about 97% or higher.

[peasofme]

what are the long term effects of quinaldine on fish?

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by peasofme

possibly 99% of fish are caught using cyanide, 99% of those fish die, and 1% make it to the lfs. disgusting.

I do not agree with your figures. I would guess you have the figures reversed in this day and age.

[IslandCrow]

Originally Posted by Palting

Weird, isn't it? Especially after reading those articles.

I ordered a large colony of Blastomusa welsi using a $200.00 gift certificate for partial payment . Anyway, it arrived in a big bag half-filled with water with the bag itself in a box filled with styrofoam and an ice pack, via overnight shipping. I assume it was in that bag and box for at least 12 hours, if not more. It came with instructions on drip acclimating, which I followed. It survived with no tissue loss, and thrives to this day growing new heads over a year later.

So this one experience contradicts those nice articles. What's right??

Actually, this doesn't contradict anything. None of those articles said corals cannot survive being shipped in water. If that were the case, it certainly wouldn't take long for distributers to figure out that their method is killing off all the corals. The articles are just saying that in their experiments, corals had a higher survival rate using dry (or at least not submerged) shipping methods.