How long before detrus stops being "potent" detrus?

[csmfish]

Okay, lets say a fish pooped a 1" square poop (yes, he was constipated and it DID hurt!). Now, its gone to the corner and just hanging there. Of course it has energey still in it, aka phosphates etc. So, how long would it take for that to break down and be basically energy-less. Remember, it hasnt gone anywhere, it is just sitting there soaking month after month. Okay, maybe it does get stirred up a little from time to time, but, still there.

[elegance coral]

There are many variables. The temp of the system, the microbial population in, on, and around the poo to begin with, the composition of the poo, and the amount of surface area on/in the poo, just to name a few.

Basically, it will begin to break down immediately. The whole time it's decomposing, it's releasing nutrients like nitrogen and phosphate into the surrounding environment. The ONLY way to keep these nutrients from entering the water, is to REMOVE the poo before it breaks down. The longer it sits on the bottom of the tank and rots, the more nutrients it dumps into your water.

[Palting]

I don't know that it physically has to be removed. I mean, that's the whole purpose of biofiltration, isn't it? The fish poops, bacteria immediately start to act on it, CUC chop it down when they get to it, it get's broken down to ammonia and it's basic elements and goes into the water column, and the rocks and all filters process it further down, etc, etc, etc. Eventually, it is released as nitrogen gas or adsorbed by GFO or incorporated by macroalgae, or exported with the water change.

My tangs have BIG poop, poop you can easily see. The water flow breaks it up, and whatever doesn't disappears in a few hours. AFAIK, poop loses it's "potency" within a few hours with proper biofiltration.

[spieszak]

If you remove it its actually gone, if you don't remove it it lives in different forms until it is removed. The bio filter doesn't make it disappear, it makes it into something useful, then makes its own waste, and also eventually dies releasing it, usually replaced quickly by more of the same bacteria. Eventually skimming and water changes remove some of it, or the system couldn't possibly stay in balance. It would balance itself completely were it not for the constant additions (feeding)..
So the original question can't be answered because there isn't an answer. It depends on how actively and efficiently the system uses the poop, but its not really gone, its just moved on to more useful purposes.

[csmfish]

My interest was that while poop does get broken down, I think there is still mass left behind. Now, i could be wrong and this is what this thread is about also, but, assuming there is mass that needs to be removed, then all the people that say detritus in the rocks is driving nitrates high is incorrect. Getting it out the sooner the better is of course the best action and let it be known that cleaning the rocks of old detritus, potent or not is still good husbandry in my books.

[sullyfish]

Ditritivores such as bristle worms and pods need also to be mentioned here. I notice in my 75 gallon fuge there is a dusting of ditritus on the substrate which I do not touch. I notice I have accumulated a ton of pods, bristle worms and CUC, and they are constantly going through it all.

It is my opinion that if you have a good balance of CUC, & ditritivores, then ditritus will not be an issue. If you constantly clean out all the ditritus then that lack of "food supply" will hinder your system from growing/ sustaining a healthy balance of ditritivores.

my .02

[aleonn]

I just had to comment that there are so many "poop" experts here

My understanding is that fish waste, in one form or another, still remains until removed by a skimmer, water change, and maybe carbon. I'd be curious what nitrate or phosphate concentrations would be if we remove detritus/fish poop and measure them at different stages of decomposition.

[csmfish]

Again I will reiterate though that cleaning both is proper husbandry, but, my whole issue is, should I concentrate on the detritus itself or trying to clean the water istelf? If the poop decomposes its stuff in the water, then I should focus on cleaning the water as by the weekend when we do a thorough cleaning, its too late, its all in the water column. Now if the poop stays potent for a longer time, then by all means go on poop patrol first.

[Palting]

Originally Posted by aleonn

I just had to comment that there are so many "poop" experts here

ROFL!!!!!!

I gotta tell you guys. My 4 tangs make REALY BIG poop. Most of it gets broken up by the power heads and flow. Some of it stay solid and gets passed among the rocks or caught up on the coral. Sometimes one or two fish eat it yuch!! But I've NEVER physically taken it out. I let CUC, biofiltration and nature take care of it. Works well for me and my tank! LOL!!

[csmfish]

Well, the only way to get it out is to physically take it out, somehow. If all your using is a skimmer, then that may be good enough?

[GSMguy]

Dog and cat forums love talking about pet poop too. Common Internet theme.

You have to concentrate on the water, the dissolved organics and the solid organics.
The trinity of Flow, Export,and Dilution.

[mussel and hate]

There are other mechanisms of nutrient export besides skimming, carbon filtration and water changes. Certain anaerobic bacteria can reduce nitrate to nitrogen which exits the system all on it's own. DSBs and coil denitrators are often employed for this. Porous live rock may also harbor anaerobic bacteria. That said if you feed heavy siphoning the poop and detritus is probably an appropriate tactic for nutrient export.

[Cptn Spaulding]

The less poop in your system, the less nutrients, the better for your reef (since it's a low nutrient system...preferably). Sure, it's important to have some, but your CUC also poops, so there will always be poop in your tank as long as you own living things in it. Now if you're just talking about a big piece of poop in your tank that is easily taken out, why let it rot in your tank to produce more nitrates and phosphates? Regardless you will probably see a piece of poop that size for quite some time, although it may look different after awhile, and probably fall apart after some time. What it breaks down into, if built up too much, will feed nuisance algae, so your best bet is to get rid of as much as you can. If I let my tank go for quite some time without a waterchange, the sand gets very dirty, and algae grows on the rocks. After a nice sand siphoning, the algae is noticeably thinner in the tank, just from getting all that detritus out of the sand. Sure, if you have a sand sifting star or conch, which does better with benthic organisms in your sand, it would behoove you to keep a happy medium so your animal does not starve but the rest of your tank does not suffer, because too much detritus will make your tank suffer, even if it's quite broken down.

[csmfish]

The main reasoning behind the question is for the poop that cant be gotten too easily. Sure, if it ALL went into one corner waiting an airlift, that would be a no brainer, but, when your fish poop all over the rocks, detritus gets blown under the rocks and out of reach places, thus comes the next step/question.

[Cptn Spaulding]

It's a good idea to turkey baste your LR periodically to free up some of that detritus. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea to move a couple rocks here and there to clean under them if possible. The nutrients can build up quickly, and you will find if your tank has been up for some time and you clean under a rock, the water in your bucket will be the closest thing to black that detritus can get. I am no poo expert so I cannot give you a time frame for the breakdown of poop, however I do know too much detritus is not a good thing, even if it is broken down to its simplest form.

There is an ongoing cycle of poop in your tank, and the system runs off of this cycle. Fish poop, CUC eats poop, CUC poops, bacteria eats nutrients, bacteria poops. Some poop will get filtered out, other poop will continue to sit there until its nutrients are used up by CUC, pods, and the bacteria. Some gets stuck in rocks, under rocks in the sand, and I am assuming 100% of poop is not going to be used up in your tank, which is why no tank is self sufficient (even though people like to see how long it can be self sufficient for). All too often you hear of people switching out their sand beds every few years to eliminate all that built up poop in the tank. I personally have not changed my sand in the 6 years of reef keeping under my belt, just added some when I switched from my 55 to a 90. I did siphon my sand quite well during the switch, it was DISGUSTING and I'm pretty sure my phosphates were halved just from doing that. because any nuisance algae on my rock started disintegrating in my new tank.

So.. basically, IME built up poop is bad, especially for well lit reefs, as it is a haven for phosphates and other gross nutrients. Poop is necessary for the life in your tank, but, as with too much of anything, too much poop ends up messing with your system, and your best bet is to at least keep it semi clean. If you do regular water changes and every so often maybe move a rock or two and siphon under it, you will not have to worry about any poop in your tank doing anything but the good stuff it's meant to do!