Newbie Questions

[tony53176]

Hello all,

I am going to be "attempting" to set up a reef tank. I will have a 55gal tank with a reaction 4 filter with UV sterilizer, 180 protein skimmer, 2 1300 gal/hr powerheads, T5 lighting with 3 10k bulbs and 3 actinic bulbs, 80lbs of live sand and 45lbs of live rock.

My question is, will 45lbs of live rock be enough or should I get another 30 or so pounds? If I should get more rock I probably won't be able to for a little while (budget), should I wait to add any corals or inverts to the tank until I get the extra rock?

My other question is, I've read a lot about the fact that both live rock and corals need supplements like calcium, iodine and strontium, should I be adding this during the cycling process or wait until I actually have some corals in the tank?

Another question I have is what should I add to the tank first after cycling? inverts, corals or fish, does it matter?

Thank you for all your input

[mjhall85]

You can buy more rock if you want to that's up to you.45lbs should be alright just depends on how you want to aquascape it if what you have now will give you the look you want then keep that amount in there. As far as supplement do not add them until you actually have the corals or inverts into your tank. I would not add any corals or anything like that for atleast 6 months and even then I would think twice about but if your tank is doing pretty well then just add basic sps things that are hardy because your tank the first year will go through a lot of changes and not be super stable until about a year out. The adding of things does matter. The vast majority of people add a CUC (clean up crew) first example :snails crabs and etc then fish and corals quite a ways down the road.You really have to plan ahead cause certain fish will eat your corals so if you are going for the full reef I would make sure whichever fish you do want to buy that they are reef safe fish and of course get a long with each other Do not add too much at once as this will increse your bio load greatly and cause many issues. You will learn nothing good happens fast in this hobby. Patience is key

[dakineacct]

Originally Posted by tony53176

Hello all,

I am going to be "attempting" to set up a reef tank. I will have a 55gal tank with a reaction 4 filter with UV sterilizer, 180 protein skimmer, 2 1300 gal/hr powerheads, T5 lighting with 3 10k bulbs and 3 actinic bulbs, 80lbs of live sand and 45lbs of live rock.

My question is, will 45lbs of live rock be enough or should I get another 30 or so pounds? You can start with 45 lbs of rock and add more later if you want.

If I should get more rock I probably won't be able to for a little while (budget), should I wait to add any corals or inverts to the tank until I get the extra rock?
You can add inhabitants slowly after your cycle with or with out additional rock.

My other question is, I've read a lot about the fact that both live rock and corals need supplements like calcium, iodine and strontium, should I be adding this during the cycling process or wait until I actually have some corals in the tank?
You don't need to add supplements during the cycle, wait until you have livestock. I do not add anything I can't test for. I depend on water changes to replenish trace elements, but do dose for alk, calcium, magnesium.

Another question I have is what should I add to the tank first after cycling? inverts, corals or fish, does it matter? As mjhal said, you may want to add a clean up crew first, then add livestock SLOWLY.

Thank you for all your input

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by tony53176

My question is, will 45lbs of live rock be enough or should I get another 30 or so pounds? If I should get more rock I probably won't be able to for a little while (budget), should I wait to add any corals or inverts to the tank until I get the extra rock?

My other question is, I've read a lot about the fact that both live rock and corals need supplements like calcium, iodine and strontium, should I be adding this during the cycling process or wait until I actually have some corals in the tank?

Another question I have is what should I add to the tank first after cycling? inverts, corals or fish, does it matter?

1) You have a lot of sand and enough rock to start. You can always add rock later if you want. But you really don't need more. LR gives bacteria a place to grow. After your tank has cycled and settled in, if you keep ammonia and nitrite at 0, you have enough LR. Also after your tank is cycled you start slowly adding critters (CUC first). If you decide you want more LR, just add it like you would any live animals, not too many and not too fast. Give the system time to adjust to the new bioload.

2) LR doesn't need any supplements. Your fish, coral and inverts will need Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium additives as they will use these to male skeletons. So you won't need any to start and only a small amount until you get a healthy number of corals growing. Don't dose iodine, strontium or any other 'supplement'. The common rule is, "Don't dose or add anything you can't test for." You get more than enough of these and other trace elements by doing regular water changes which you will need to do in order to keep your nitrate levels down. If you have a lot of LR, a Deep Sand Bed (DSB) and or a nitrate reactor (there are a couple of types) then you can keep nitrates down and do fewer water changes. Then you might consider adding iodine or strontium... but even then it's unlikely.

3) I'd do it this way: Rooks and sand or sand and rock (it doesn't really matter). Add saltwater carefully by pouring it onto a large flat surface like a dinner plate to keep from stirring up the silt in the sand. Wait for the water to clear (a day, maybe 2). Add a small amount (5ml) of pure household ammonia or add some fish food (any kind will do) and the next day start testing for ammonia and nitrate. Don't add any animals until the cycle is done.

After the cycle, you can add some snails (in you tank 20 is enough unless they are really small, then add more 30 or 40). These will help eat the first coating of algae that will bloom. Other CUC can be added as well. Some hermit crabs (less than 20), maybe a hearty shrimp (peppermints are hearty and inexpensive). Give them time to do some clean up (I'd wait 2-4 weeks depending on how the algae bloom is doing). Once things have cleaned up you are ready to add a fish or 2. Add less agressive fish first, more agressive fish later. The tank should be at least 2-3 months old before you add your first coral, and even then, make it a hearty and inexpensive one. If it lives (and hopefully grows) you are on your way.

Read all the 'stickies' at the top of this forum. They will help answer a lot of your basic questions. Especially read this one:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2075632

But if you don't understand something, or are confused by something, ask your question. That's why the forum is here. And those of us with experience want to try and help make your learning experience go smoothly. I was about 3 years into saltwater aquariums before I found RC and what a difference it made. You might also look to see if there is a local club in your area. They can be even more helpful than RC. Local tanks to look at, local systems to study, local info about your LFS, and a great resource for hardware and corals at great prices. Look at the system I have listed in my signature and then think about the fact that 90% of the hardware, fish and corals were all bought used. I probably saved $3-5000 off the cost of new equipment.

[tony53176]

wow this is great stuff thanks guys.

so clean up crew first huh? would something like this work http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...68&pcatid=1368

or would something like this be better? http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...44&pcatid=1944

[MrTuskfish]

I'd get a basic QT set up before you buy anything else. Best investment you can make; try Craig's list.

[tony53176]

QT? quarantine tank I assume? I'm actually going to use my daughters 10gal aquarium that she used to house her hermit crabs and find myself a cheap filter, no light and nothing else in it. once the main tank is cycled I'm gonna take water out of that and move it to the ten gallon tank, does that sound like the right thing to do or should the specific gravity and ph be slightly different in a QT tank?

[Palting]

Originally Posted by tony53176

wow this is great stuff thanks guys.

so clean up crew first huh? would something like this work http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...68&pcatid=1368

or would something like this be better? http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...44&pcatid=1944

I believe these "packaged" cleaner products contain too many animals. They will not have enough to "clean up" in a new tank. I would much rather pick up a few snails, a few hemits, a shrimp or 2, to start.

BTW, there is no such thing as "attempting" to set up a reef tank. Once you start, it's too late!! You are hooked!!! LOL!!

[daplatapus]

Originally Posted by Palting

BTW, there is no such thing as "attempting" to set up a reef tank. Once you start, it's too late!! You are hooked!!! LOL!!

Like a very wise little green guy once said, "Do or do not, there is no try."

[tony53176]

Originally Posted by daplatapus

Like a very wise little green guy once said, "Do or do not, there is no try."

Fair enough lol

I only say attempt because I am nervous on whether or not my equipment will be good enough for a reef tank and if I will have the proper knowledge to maintain a reef tank

[tony53176]

Originally Posted by Palting

I believe these "packaged" cleaner products contain too many animals. They will not have enough to "clean up" in a new tank. I would much rather pick up a few snails, a few hemits, a shrimp or 2, to start.

BTW, there is no such thing as "attempting" to set up a reef tank. Once you start, it's too late!! You are hooked!!! LOL!!

I was afraid the packages would be too many animals, I'm glad you said so. what would be a good number of snails and hermits to start with? also I do like the look of the coral banded shrimp would I be ok getting one of those?

[larrypoe]

I have a silly question conserning live rock. the area where i live is on what used to be the edge of a giant inland sea (kansas/missouri line)...limestone is quarried here in a million different places from accualy stone quarries to old strip pits (coal mines from pre 1940). I have used these for years in freshwater tanks, and am going to use them in my first saltwater setup (cost). they come in thin 1/2-2" thick pieces and from hand size to car tire size :/....these are the top of ancient coral reefs. as they go down it gets to limestone dozens or hundreds feet thick and thats what is accualy quarried. most of this stuff even has the fossels of old crusts or corals on/in it. my questions is, other than no hitchikers......good or bad....and the filter effect...is this stuff realy much different than LR?

[Palting]

Originally Posted by tony53176

I was afraid the packages would be too many animals, I'm glad you said so. what would be a good number of snails and hermits to start with? also I do like the look of the coral banded shrimp would I be ok getting one of those?

I probably would start off with 2-3 of each. If you like hermits, get the smaller ones, as the larger variety have a tendency to move things around. Coral banded shrimp indeed are pretty, but they can be aggressive to one another and to smaller shrimp. Usually you can only keep one alive in a tank, unless you have a very large tank. I would much rather start off with 2 cleaner shrimp, then get a coral banded shrimp later when the cleaner shrimp are bigger.

As your tank goes through the blooms and matures, and as you add more livestock and have more detritus, you can slowly add more CUC.

[tony53176]

ok one more quick question then, if I plan on getting an anemone in the future (3-4 months down the road) would the cleaner shrimp or coral banded shrimp be in danger? If so should I bother getting shrimp at all?

I don't want to accidentally put any livestock in danger.

[MrTuskfish]

Originally Posted by larrypoe

I have a silly question conserning live rock. the area where i live is on what used to be the edge of a giant inland sea (kansas/missouri line)...limestone is quarried here in a million different places from accualy stone quarries to old strip pits (coal mines from pre 1940). I have used these for years in freshwater tanks, and am going to use them in my first saltwater setup (cost). they come in thin 1/2-2" thick pieces and from hand size to car tire size :/....these are the top of ancient coral reefs. as they go down it gets to limestone dozens or hundreds feet thick and thats what is accualy quarried. most of this stuff even has the fossels of old crusts or corals on/in it. my questions is, other than no hitchikers......good or bad....and the filter effect...is this stuff realy much different than LR?

I'd start your own thread, you'll get plenty of help. two subjects on the same thread makes it very confusing and the OP doesn't get the help he needs.

[Palting]

Originally Posted by tony53176

ok one more quick question then, if I plan on getting an anemone in the future (3-4 months down the road) would the cleaner shrimp or coral banded shrimp be in danger? If so should I bother getting shrimp at all?

I don't want to accidentally put any livestock in danger.

They will be fine with an anemone. I have a large full grown BTA. The only shrimp it has eaten in 2 years is what i've fed it.