Vinegar soak too long?

[Jstn]

Ive always used pure glacial acetic acid and never had a problem. Granted i use a stronger acid, my soak time is limited to 30 minutes.

I also use this for vinegar dosing.

[tmz]

What concentration do you use for cleaning ;for dosing? It's still acetic acid C2H4O2(CH3COOH) whether it's diluted as vinegar or anhydrous (galacial) mixed with water, so the effects on seals should be the same.

[Jstn]

50 gal system, I dose .5 ml glacial everyday, I have seen great results compared to etoh, for cleaning its more like water plus a shot of acid. I was out of vinegar and it was late at lab so I just took the real stuff. I think for cleaning I use a very strong solution, but it of sits for 30 minutes, maybe time is a bigger factor ?

[lhemphill]

A rag and a bucket of vinegar did the trick. I used a NEW acrylic scraper to get the glass like new, and no scratches!!

Im glad I found this thread.

[tmz]

50 gal system, I dose .5 ml glacial everyday, I have seen great results compared to etoh, for cleaning its more like water plus a shot of acid. I was out of vinegar and it was late at lab so I just took the real stuff. I think for cleaning I use a very strong solution, but it of sits for 30 minutes, maybe time is a bigger factor ?

Well, ethoh as vodka works just fine for me.
How much ehanol were you dosing?
How is the galacial much better? Why do you call it the real stuff? Acetic acid in vinegar is just as real withthe same chemical formula (CH3CO2) although it's produced for food grade via natural fermentation rather than synthetic chemical processes used for galacial acetic acid which is acetic acid in a dimmer form.

I dose both vodka and vinegar and have been doing so for 3 yrs at about .45 vinegar equivalents per gallon (26ml 80 proof vodka and 64 ml vinegar daily for 600 gallons) for a high bioload system.
For perspective, .5ml by volume of dry anhydrous galacial ehanoic acid it's eqiuvalent to about 10ml of vinegar for 50 gallons or .2 ml per gallon.

For those thinking about playing with the highly concentrated anhydrous galacial acid , I'd urge you to read the material data safety sheet for it:. This is from it:

Potential Acute Health Effects:
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Hazardous in case of skin
contact (corrosive, permeator), of eye contact (corrosive). Liquid or spray mist may produce tissue damage particularly on
mucous membranes of eyes, mouth and respiratory tract. Skin contact may produce burns. Inhalation of the spray mist may
produce severe irritation of respiratory tract, characterized by coughing, choking, or shortness of breath. Inflammation of the
eye is characterized by redness, watering, and itching. Skin inflammation is characterized by itching, scaling, reddening, or,
occasionally, blistering.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. TERATOGENIC
EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be toxic to kidneys, mucous
membranes, skin, teeth. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated or prolonged contact with spray mist may produce chronic eye irritation and severe skin irritation. Repeated or prolonged
exposure to spray mist may produce respiratory tract irritation leading to frequent attacks of bronchial infection

[Jstn]

I haven't seen cyano where Etoh has given me problems. Glacial isn't a dimer, you are thinking acetic acid anhydride, not anhydrous. I call it the real stuff cause it's concentrated, yes it's the same acetic acid as wegmans vinegar.

[windyridge]

Yikes, watched a video from a company that makes skimmers that said to run your skimmer in a 2 parts water to 1 part vinegar solution for 12-24 hours, once a quarter! Now I'm really confused.

[tmz]

Glacial isn't a dimer, you are thinking acetic acid anhydride, not anhydrous.

Galcial acetic acid is anhydrous and is a dimer via hydrogen bond; not thinking anhydride.

"...In solid acetic acid, the molecules form pairs (dimers), being connected by hydrogen bonds.[17>>"

From this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_..._note-jones-16

and this:


^ Jones, R.E.; Templeton, D.H. (1958). "The crystal structure of acetic acid". Acta Crystallogr. 11 (7): 484–87. doi:10.1107/S0365110X58001341



I call it the real stuff cause it's concentrated, yes it's the same acetic acid as wegmans vinegar.

It may have the same chemical formula as Wegaman's vinegar without water but what's in the package may not be th same depending on how a particular galacial acetic acid was made , processed and packaged and what impurities if any are present.

Note:

"Acetic acid is produced industrially both synthetically and by bacterial fermentation. About 75% of acetic acid made for use in the chemical industry is made by the carbonylation of methanol ... Alternative methods account for the rest. The biological route accounts for only about 10% of world production, but it remains important for the production of vinegar, as many food purity laws stipulate that vinegar used in foods must be of biological origin"

and

"...oxidation of acetaldehyde ...remains the second-most-important manufacturing method, although it is usually uncompetitive with the carbonylation of methanol....


Side-products may also form, including butanone, ethyl acetate, formic acid, and propionic acid. These side-products are also commercially valuable, and the reaction conditions may be altered to produce more of them where needed. However, the separation of acetic acid from these by-products adds to the cost of the process.... and ...

Using modern catalysts, this reaction can have an acetic acid yield greater than 95%. The major side-products are ethyl acetate, formic acid, and formaldehyde, all of which have lower boiling points than acetic acid and are readily separated by distillation.