My Frogfish Paradise

FrogfishFeeder · 01/26/2012, 11:44 PM

Hello all, brand new member here.
Currently running, I have a beautiful mixed reef, and my all new and improved Angler System.
Brief bio: I had my 1st t reef back in the mid 90s, took a break, got back into it about 2.5yrs ago, alot had changed...

On to the frogfish....
About 6 months ago I acquired a commersons angler, its very cryptic and im totally in love with this ugly bugger and I cant wait till its the size of a bowling ball... Then i HAD to have a black one since, plan to get an orange one and/or wartskin.
They live seperatly in the same tank, and each one now lives with a purple lobster, 2 jumbo nassarius, 3 camel shrimps, 1serpent star, and 1 side has 2 domino damsels the other side has 2 humbug/3stripe damsels all purchased as live food.
It took about 6 live camel shrimp skewered on my invisible feeding stick to get them to eat frozen/store foods, now they wont even try to go after the other shrimps andthey never tried for the lobsters.
I bought the shrimps and damsels as I figured id need them, but it took all of 2 shrimp for the commersons and 4 for the pictus to get them hittin the feeding stick everytime, now they feast on squid,octopus, fish, crab, etc.
They are both fat and lazy, the black pictus(4") is a bit more timid than the commersons(5").
Some pics...(from a phone sorry)
The tank

The commersons

The black pictus, its really shy

The pictus withe its camel shrimp friends(i bought 12 originally, have 6 left for a while now)

Hope you all enjoyed and wish all those crustaceans lotsa luck!!!

tntdsol · 01/27/2012, 01:36 AM

Man that commersons looks really good. I will be setting up a mixed reef that is angler/lion fish exclusive. Just curious why you have them separated?

Bluemon · 01/27/2012, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tntdsol

Man that commersons looks really good. I will be setting up a mixed reef that is angler/lion fish exclusive. Just curious why you have them separated?

I'm not an expert, but won't they eat each other

FMarini · 01/27/2012, 09:10 AM

gorgeous frogfish, great colorations and i know this is irrelevant,
but the top anglerfsh doesnt look like any A commersons ive ever seen. I know frogfish in general are difficult to ID.
Looks more like one of the Lophiocharon sp. fish (probably trisignatus) based on the spotted caudal fish (spotted tail), the body structure, and weird looking esca

but i certainly can be wrong
frank

FrogfishFeeder · 01/27/2012, 10:05 AM

After much time spent on frogfish.com, I was torn between the Lophiocharon genus, but the commerson matches the esca, the fishes size, and the fact that it was so cheap and the store it came from, all contributed to my id.
I was leaning more towards L. lithinostomus originally, but in the descriptions on that website it says multiple times that the L. genus is more rare...

Often times, even the "experts" are wrong iding these fish, and I could also be wrong but im stickin with commersons for now.

namxas · 01/27/2012, 11:44 AM

Pretty fish for sure! At first glance, I tend to agree with Frank...I probably wouldn't ID the first fish as a Commerson's either, altho I can see where you're going by the esca.

L. trisignatus has an esca that mimics a spider crab, but can appear similar to that of A. commersonni (L. lithinostomus has almost no esca at all). I was looking for the dorsal occelli in your pic, and it seems like I can see it, but it's hard to see at that angle (there should be 3 faint spots...one dorsal, and two body spots). Sizewise, you're looking at a 5"-7" fish for this species, so that's right on as opposed to discounting the species.

You've obviously done you homework in terms of ID, and you have the advantage of seeing the fish "in person".

Nice fish and setup! We have a similar split tank ourselves.

Stumped · 01/27/2012, 12:51 PM

I agree with Frank and Greg. I'm fairly certain it's not a commerson's and actually a Lophiocharon sp. fish as they both suggested.

First off awesome fish and set up. Secondly I'm incredibly jealous, as I've been looking for one for a while and you just stumbled across one. The only time I've ever seen one listed anywhere were the 2 that went up on DD many months ago, but they were rather pricey IMO. Especially considering I know they'd have gone for less than half that locally . Of course I can't find one locally so perhaps it was a bad decision on my part to try and be cheap!

FrogfishFeeder · 01/27/2012, 02:47 PM

Namxas, I been reading all your great info for months!
If you say L. Species, ill go along with that for now.
Oh, my name is Gregg as well!

If it does turn out to be L., its ok because the way my mind works, if I get a m/f pair, the young seem MUCH easier to raise.
Thats ideas for the future tho.

Stumped, the "commersons" was purchased by a friend for her kid as a first fish/tank, lived in my sump for months and months,but after research on her part, she left it with me....

Thanks for all the compliments and ideas guys, I love these fish!
Ill keep posting pics....

FrogfishFeeder · 01/27/2012, 02:59 PM

Last night, all tucked up under the ledge, fat and happy!

Heres one of their tankmates lookin for some grub!

namxas · 01/27/2012, 03:16 PM

Sure is one cool angler, whatever it is!

FrogfishFeeder · 01/27/2012, 03:42 PM

Does this help?
I dont readily see any discernable spots other than the tail, which IS where they supposed to be on lithinostomus....
But now that I look closer at frogfish.com, the L. species seem more prone to have all the shaggy spinules.
I always just ruled out Lopiocharon on th fact that they are regarded as "very uncommon".

Stumped · 01/27/2012, 04:40 PM

Based on your pics I'm pretty positive its a Lophiocharon sp. fish. Hard to tell what one without seeing the lure.

They're uncommon, but not unheard of. 2-3 popped up on LA DD last year, plus another member on RC also purchased one elsewhere. The thing about frogfish is the only ones that ever really get ID'd by the supplier are A. maculatus because they're readily identifiable and fetch a premium price.

The rest of them are usually sold as misc. frogfish and at the retail level those are sometimes ID'd further if they so choose. Most often they're just 'identified' by colour and priced based on that.

The rarest one I've come across in person is one I currently have which is an A. dorehensis which are pretty uncommon as well (at least in the trade). So it's not impossible to end up with something that is somewhat rarer than usual.

FrogfishFeeder · 01/27/2012, 05:05 PM

The escala exactly resembles a thawed mysis shrimp.
Hows that for aquarium evolution...

Eta- ive seen at least half a dozen of this kind at lfs in rhe last month or so, had to wade thru them to find the black one.
Next time I see one im grabbin another or 3....

FrogfishFeeder · 01/27/2012, 05:55 PM

K, so im relenting and agreeing, its Lophiocharon sp...
Shoot, now I need to find a commersons too!
I gotta have a basketball-sized angler!!

Greg, got your message, ive already seen that site in my research about my next purchase, rhinopias....
Ill see you there, cant reply to pm till I get 10 posts...
Thanks for the invite!

FrogfishFeeder · 01/27/2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped

Hard to tell what one without seeing the lure.

Look at the 1st pic of the fish, follow the illicium up and the very topmost of the fish, esca is visible for sure.
Ill try for a better pic later, I been pokin and proddin my fish all day now....

I been reading, looking, reading, looking all day, ill agree on the Lophiocharon, and after much consideration, going so far as to id it as lithinostomus at 97.5% certainty.
Spinules, tiny esca, general body shape, tail spots, it all fits.

Im satisfied, glad I posted, thanks guys!

FMarini · 01/28/2012, 05:56 AM

your welcome
it just didnt look right to me. I used to see this genus come in alot (even thou the websites state rare-not frequently seen in hobby, etc)
the cool part about frogfish/anglers is, that its "almost" irrelevant what species it is(except so you can tell your friends and get the appropriate sized tank or tankmates), as care of the species are the same.

Lastly, as your aware a few folks on the MOFIB site actually got this species (Lophiocharon) to breed, and they were successful at raising the fry as the fry are large at hatching

Moray keeper · 01/28/2012, 07:01 AM

It looks like a L. lithinostomus, often sold as marble mouth frogfish to me. I had one almost identical to that one but I lost it during our freak snowstorm/ power outage around Halloween.

01/26/2012, 11:44 PM	#1
FrogfishFeeder Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: 916 Posts: 91	My Frogfish Paradise Hello all, brand new member here. Currently running, I have a beautiful mixed reef, and my all new and improved Angler System. Brief bio: I had my 1st t reef back in the mid 90s, took a break, got back into it about 2.5yrs ago, alot had changed... On to the frogfish.... About 6 months ago I acquired a commersons angler, its very cryptic and im totally in love with this ugly bugger and I cant wait till its the size of a bowling ball... Then i HAD to have a black one since, plan to get an orange one and/or wartskin. They live seperatly in the same tank, and each one now lives with a purple lobster, 2 jumbo nassarius, 3 camel shrimps, 1serpent star, and 1 side has 2 domino damsels the other side has 2 humbug/3stripe damsels all purchased as live food. It took about 6 live camel shrimp skewered on my invisible feeding stick to get them to eat frozen/store foods, now they wont even try to go after the other shrimps andthey never tried for the lobsters. I bought the shrimps and damsels as I figured id need them, but it took all of 2 shrimp for the commersons and 4 for the pictus to get them hittin the feeding stick everytime, now they feast on squid,octopus, fish, crab, etc. They are both fat and lazy, the black pictus(4") is a bit more timid than the commersons(5"). Some pics...(from a phone sorry) The tank The commersons The black pictus, its really shy The pictus withe its camel shrimp friends(i bought 12 originally, have 6 left for a while now) Hope you all enjoyed and wish all those crustaceans lotsa luck!!!

01/27/2012, 09:10 AM	#4
FMarini 10 & Over Club Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 5,260	gorgeous frogfish, great colorations and i know this is irrelevant, but the top anglerfsh doesnt look like any A commersons ive ever seen. I know frogfish in general are difficult to ID. Looks more like one of the Lophiocharon sp. fish (probably trisignatus) based on the spotted caudal fish (spotted tail), the body structure, and weird looking esca but i certainly can be wrong frank __________________ Fish die belly-up and float to the surface: its their way of falling- Andre Gide

01/27/2012, 10:05 AM	#5
FrogfishFeeder Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: 916 Posts: 91	After much time spent on frogfish.com, I was torn between the Lophiocharon genus, but the commerson matches the esca, the fishes size, and the fact that it was so cheap and the store it came from, all contributed to my id. I was leaning more towards L. lithinostomus originally, but in the descriptions on that website it says multiple times that the L. genus is more rare... Often times, even the "experts" are wrong iding these fish, and I could also be wrong but im stickin with commersons for now. __________________ 75g mixed reef 65g double angler tank

01/27/2012, 11:44 AM	#6
namxas Things With Stings R Us! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Carson, CA Posts: 5,087	Pretty fish for sure! At first glance, I tend to agree with Frank...I probably wouldn't ID the first fish as a Commerson's either, altho I can see where you're going by the esca. L. trisignatus has an esca that mimics a spider crab, but can appear similar to that of A. commersonni (L. lithinostomus has almost no esca at all). I was looking for the dorsal occelli in your pic, and it seems like I can see it, but it's hard to see at that angle (there should be 3 faint spots...one dorsal, and two body spots). Sizewise, you're looking at a 5"-7" fish for this species, so that's right on as opposed to discounting the species. You've obviously done you homework in terms of ID, and you have the advantage of seeing the fish "in person". Nice fish and setup! We have a similar split tank ourselves. __________________ Greg Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!

01/27/2012, 02:47 PM	#8
FrogfishFeeder Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: 916 Posts: 91	Namxas, I been reading all your great info for months! If you say L. Species, ill go along with that for now. Oh, my name is Gregg as well! If it does turn out to be L., its ok because the way my mind works, if I get a m/f pair, the young seem MUCH easier to raise. Thats ideas for the future tho. Stumped, the "commersons" was purchased by a friend for her kid as a first fish/tank, lived in my sump for months and months,but after research on her part, she left it with me.... Thanks for all the compliments and ideas guys, I love these fish! Ill keep posting pics.... __________________ 75g mixed reef 65g double angler tank

01/27/2012, 01:36 AM	#2
tntdsol Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huntsville, TX Posts: 331	Man that commersons looks really good. I will be setting up a mixed reef that is angler/lion fish exclusive. Just curious why you have them separated?

01/27/2012, 12:51 PM	#7
Stumped Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 439	I agree with Frank and Greg. I'm fairly certain it's not a commerson's and actually a Lophiocharon sp. fish as they both suggested. First off awesome fish and set up. Secondly I'm incredibly jealous, as I've been looking for one for a while and you just stumbled across one. The only time I've ever seen one listed anywhere were the 2 that went up on DD many months ago, but they were rather pricey IMO. Especially considering I know they'd have gone for less than half that locally . Of course I can't find one locally so perhaps it was a bad decision on my part to try and be cheap!

01/27/2012, 02:59 PM	#9
FrogfishFeeder Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: 916 Posts: 91	Last night, all tucked up under the ledge, fat and happy! Heres one of their tankmates lookin for some grub! __________________ 75g mixed reef 65g double angler tank

01/27/2012, 03:16 PM	#10
namxas Things With Stings R Us! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Carson, CA Posts: 5,087	Sure is one cool angler, whatever it is! __________________ Greg Current Tank Info: too many to describe, but i think the count is up to "lucky 13"!

01/27/2012, 03:42 PM	#11
FrogfishFeeder Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: 916 Posts: 91	Does this help? I dont readily see any discernable spots other than the tail, which IS where they supposed to be on lithinostomus.... But now that I look closer at frogfish.com, the L. species seem more prone to have all the shaggy spinules. I always just ruled out Lopiocharon on th fact that they are regarded as "very uncommon". __________________ 75g mixed reef 65g double angler tank Last edited by FrogfishFeeder; 01/27/2012 at 03:57 PM.

01/27/2012, 04:40 PM	#12
Stumped Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 439	Based on your pics I'm pretty positive its a Lophiocharon sp. fish. Hard to tell what one without seeing the lure. They're uncommon, but not unheard of. 2-3 popped up on LA DD last year, plus another member on RC also purchased one elsewhere. The thing about frogfish is the only ones that ever really get ID'd by the supplier are A. maculatus because they're readily identifiable and fetch a premium price. The rest of them are usually sold as misc. frogfish and at the retail level those are sometimes ID'd further if they so choose. Most often they're just 'identified' by colour and priced based on that. The rarest one I've come across in person is one I currently have which is an A. dorehensis which are pretty uncommon as well (at least in the trade). So it's not impossible to end up with something that is somewhat rarer than usual.

01/27/2012, 05:05 PM	#13
FrogfishFeeder Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: 916 Posts: 91	The escala exactly resembles a thawed mysis shrimp. Hows that for aquarium evolution... Eta- ive seen at least half a dozen of this kind at lfs in rhe last month or so, had to wade thru them to find the black one. Next time I see one im grabbin another or 3.... __________________ 75g mixed reef 65g double angler tank

01/27/2012, 05:55 PM	#14
FrogfishFeeder Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: 916 Posts: 91	K, so im relenting and agreeing, its Lophiocharon sp... Shoot, now I need to find a commersons too! I gotta have a basketball-sized angler!! Greg, got your message, ive already seen that site in my research about my next purchase, rhinopias.... Ill see you there, cant reply to pm till I get 10 posts... Thanks for the invite! __________________ 75g mixed reef 65g double angler tank

01/28/2012, 05:56 AM	#16
FMarini 10 & Over Club Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 5,260	your welcome it just didnt look right to me. I used to see this genus come in alot (even thou the websites state rare-not frequently seen in hobby, etc) the cool part about frogfish/anglers is, that its "almost" irrelevant what species it is(except so you can tell your friends and get the appropriate sized tank or tankmates), as care of the species are the same. Lastly, as your aware a few folks on the MOFIB site actually got this species (Lophiocharon) to breed, and they were successful at raising the fry as the fry are large at hatching __________________ Fish die belly-up and float to the surface: its their way of falling- Andre Gide

01/28/2012, 07:01 AM	#17
Moray keeper Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: In the tank behind you Posts: 240	It looks like a L. lithinostomus, often sold as marble mouth frogfish to me. I had one almost identical to that one but I lost it during our freak snowstorm/ power outage around Halloween. __________________ 26 morays, 10 anglers, 23 scorpionfish, 1 black trigger, 1 clownfish, 1 ornate octopus