Questions on first tank setup

grafspee1217 · 02/25/2012, 06:30 PM

Hi everyone,
I've spent the last couple of nights scouring the different posts for answers on some of the questions I have. I hate asking questions that have been answered numerous times but I cant seem to find what I'm looking for. I apologize in advance if my questions are dumb.

My wife and I are going to set up a small reef tank. We are pressed for space unfortunately. The LFS is having a tank and stand made and the dimensions are 20x18x24. The LFS said all we need is a protein skimmer (he recommends a Bakpak) and a HOB filter in addition to the live rock. I asked about having the tank drilled and he said it wasn't needed on such a small tank. I started reading on the forums all the information I could while we wait for the tank to be built. I came to the conclusion that a sump would actually be worthwhile since we have a relatively small volume of water to begin with. The sump would increase the amount of water in the system. Fair enough, I learned about glass-holes.com through the forums and figured I can drill a tank without any issue. The folks at glass-holes recommended the supernano con dientes which uses a 1" bulkhead and the 1/2" return. So far so good. They said I could use a Mag 3 pump without issue. I could also get away with a Mag 5 and tee off any additional flow back into the return part of the sump. I have about 4' of head. I don't know which pump I should get.

Here is where I get stuck and I need help. I don't have the stand yet but the space inside is going to be tight. The back of the stand isn't completely open so I estimate my sump will be in the vicinity of 15x15x16 high. I have read through melev reef's site about 12 times. I can do one of two things. I can put a Bakpak skimmer in the sump with a very small refugium and a return section just big enough to get the Mag pump to fit. There is a sump similar to this on the Melev site although that sump is a little bigger (20x20x16).

My other option is to make a 2 chamber sump and use a better skimmer like an Octopus 110 and a larger return section to house the pump, heater etc.
Everyone seems to recommend growing Chaeto and I understand what it does, but space is really really tight. Do I opt for a larger better skimmer and forget about the chaeto or compromise with chaeto and a less than stellar skimmer.

Obviously the less expensive way is to go the HOB filter and HOB skimmer, I just don't want to regret it later on. Again I apologize for the long post.
Appreciate any suggestions
Adrian

mjhall85 · 02/25/2012, 06:37 PM

I surely would drill the tank you will love it in the long run. I drilled my small 5.5 gallon pico tank haha. I would buy a better skimmer personally but there is some good HOB skimmers as well so it's really up to you and what your budget will allow. what kind of lighting do you plan on going with? and also as far as the pump goes I would go with the mag 3 that will be more than enough you don't want all your flow coming from the return pump you will also need to buy a powerhead or two as well. feel free to ask any questions it's what were all here for

Faye · 02/25/2012, 06:37 PM

I would go with the better skimmer. Water changes and a low bio load will help keep your nitrates down.

I've never had luck with cheato. It always trapped a ton of stuff as water passed through, and then it would make the sump filthy and the debris would brake down into nitrates... The more simple and cleaner you can keep the tank the better. Water falls into section one, good skimmer (I like the vertex line skimmers), goes through your bubble trap, then pumped up through a return. Simple.

grafspee1217 · 02/25/2012, 06:46 PM

If I go through the trouble and expense of a sump then I want as clean a look as possible so I would opt for an in tank skimmer. I am already allowing for a Koralia or two for in tank flow and I will bite the bullet on an LED light fixture.

mjhall85 · 02/25/2012, 06:51 PM

if you are handy then DIY led's is the way to go in my opinion. I would do some research on LED fixtures cause some out there are not that great.If you want a clean look then go with the sump no sump will make the DT look crowded.

pgr11 · 02/25/2012, 06:58 PM

+1 on the better skimmer. As far as cheato i run it and have great success with it. My nitrates are at 0. Just a thought since the tank is still being built why not have them drill it for you and while there at it add a small external overflow to the back. No room is lost in the dt and you have a clean look.

fpv930 · 02/25/2012, 08:14 PM

I also would go for the better skimmer. But... the refugium in the sump is also a plus. I currently am running a 36g bow front tank with no sump. There is a big difference between this setup and my 72g that leaked. There was much more life in the 72g system with the sump.
I am planning on building a cabinet and running a 10-20g sump for the 36. I just ordered a Bubble Magus BM-NAC3+ Protein Skimmer from BRS. I am going to build the sump's first chamber around the skimmer and the last chamber around the return pump to give me the max room for the refugium.

grafspee1217 · 02/25/2012, 08:31 PM

My other concern is that if I manage to build a three chambered sump then getting the protein skimmer or pump out to clean them may be impossible. The only way to get the skimmer out would be straight up. Considering most skimmers are in the 18" neighborhood that will be a problem.

I will most likely go with the Mag 3 pump. Deciding whether to pipe it 1/2" from the pump to the tank or go with 3/4" then reduce at the tank to 1/2".

I am pretty handy with a soldering iron so the DIY LED is the way to go. This tank will have a canopy so hiding the actual fixture wont be a problem. I am planning on using 3 watt Cree XP-E white and royal blue. I'm not sure whether to use a 1 to 1 ratio and whether to use 24 or 30 LED's.

mjhall85 · 02/25/2012, 09:10 PM

just use 3/4 all the way to the tank that is how I did my 65 and then used 3/4 loc line. As far as the ratio of led's there is another part on this forum that talk about led's generally you use more whites than blue's but I am sure you will research it more and figure out what will be best for you and the color you want to achieve

privitor · 03/06/2012, 09:31 AM

+1 fpv930

i agree with what he said,
i too have a 36g bow with a custom 3 compartment sump with and it tuut nice. Get the best equipment you can afford and have space for.
It will cost you more in the end if you try to save a penny now.

Plan plan plan and good luck

02/25/2012, 06:30 PM	#1
grafspee1217 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 39	Questions on first tank setup Hi everyone, I've spent the last couple of nights scouring the different posts for answers on some of the questions I have. I hate asking questions that have been answered numerous times but I cant seem to find what I'm looking for. I apologize in advance if my questions are dumb. My wife and I are going to set up a small reef tank. We are pressed for space unfortunately. The LFS is having a tank and stand made and the dimensions are 20x18x24. The LFS said all we need is a protein skimmer (he recommends a Bakpak) and a HOB filter in addition to the live rock. I asked about having the tank drilled and he said it wasn't needed on such a small tank. I started reading on the forums all the information I could while we wait for the tank to be built. I came to the conclusion that a sump would actually be worthwhile since we have a relatively small volume of water to begin with. The sump would increase the amount of water in the system. Fair enough, I learned about glass-holes.com through the forums and figured I can drill a tank without any issue. The folks at glass-holes recommended the supernano con dientes which uses a 1" bulkhead and the 1/2" return. So far so good. They said I could use a Mag 3 pump without issue. I could also get away with a Mag 5 and tee off any additional flow back into the return part of the sump. I have about 4' of head. I don't know which pump I should get. Here is where I get stuck and I need help. I don't have the stand yet but the space inside is going to be tight. The back of the stand isn't completely open so I estimate my sump will be in the vicinity of 15x15x16 high. I have read through melev reef's site about 12 times. I can do one of two things. I can put a Bakpak skimmer in the sump with a very small refugium and a return section just big enough to get the Mag pump to fit. There is a sump similar to this on the Melev site although that sump is a little bigger (20x20x16). My other option is to make a 2 chamber sump and use a better skimmer like an Octopus 110 and a larger return section to house the pump, heater etc. Everyone seems to recommend growing Chaeto and I understand what it does, but space is really really tight. Do I opt for a larger better skimmer and forget about the chaeto or compromise with chaeto and a less than stellar skimmer. Obviously the less expensive way is to go the HOB filter and HOB skimmer, I just don't want to regret it later on. Again I apologize for the long post. Appreciate any suggestions Adrian

02/25/2012, 08:14 PM	#7
fpv930 Reef Addict Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Syracuse New York Posts: 292	I also would go for the better skimmer. But... the refugium in the sump is also a plus. I currently am running a 36g bow front tank with no sump. There is a big difference between this setup and my 72g that leaked. There was much more life in the 72g system with the sump. I am planning on building a cabinet and running a 10-20g sump for the 36. I just ordered a Bubble Magus BM-NAC3+ Protein Skimmer from BRS. I am going to build the sump's first chamber around the skimmer and the last chamber around the return pump to give me the max room for the refugium. __________________ 36 Bow front, 10g nano and building a 90g in my basement Always dreaming of a bigger tank!!

02/25/2012, 06:37 PM	#2
mjhall85 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 535	I surely would drill the tank you will love it in the long run. I drilled my small 5.5 gallon pico tank haha. I would buy a better skimmer personally but there is some good HOB skimmers as well so it's really up to you and what your budget will allow. what kind of lighting do you plan on going with? and also as far as the pump goes I would go with the mag 3 that will be more than enough you don't want all your flow coming from the return pump you will also need to buy a powerhead or two as well. feel free to ask any questions it's what were all here for

02/25/2012, 06:37 PM	#3
Faye Moved On Join Date: May 2011 Location: PA Posts: 411	I would go with the better skimmer. Water changes and a low bio load will help keep your nitrates down. I've never had luck with cheato. It always trapped a ton of stuff as water passed through, and then it would make the sump filthy and the debris would brake down into nitrates... The more simple and cleaner you can keep the tank the better. Water falls into section one, good skimmer (I like the vertex line skimmers), goes through your bubble trap, then pumped up through a return. Simple.

02/25/2012, 06:46 PM	#4
grafspee1217 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 39	If I go through the trouble and expense of a sump then I want as clean a look as possible so I would opt for an in tank skimmer. I am already allowing for a Koralia or two for in tank flow and I will bite the bullet on an LED light fixture.

02/25/2012, 06:51 PM	#5
mjhall85 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 535	if you are handy then DIY led's is the way to go in my opinion. I would do some research on LED fixtures cause some out there are not that great.If you want a clean look then go with the sump no sump will make the DT look crowded.

02/25/2012, 06:58 PM	#6
pgr11 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Hesperia,CA Posts: 256	+1 on the better skimmer. As far as cheato i run it and have great success with it. My nitrates are at 0. Just a thought since the tank is still being built why not have them drill it for you and while there at it add a small external overflow to the back. No room is lost in the dt and you have a clean look.

02/25/2012, 08:31 PM	#8
grafspee1217 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 39	My other concern is that if I manage to build a three chambered sump then getting the protein skimmer or pump out to clean them may be impossible. The only way to get the skimmer out would be straight up. Considering most skimmers are in the 18" neighborhood that will be a problem. I will most likely go with the Mag 3 pump. Deciding whether to pipe it 1/2" from the pump to the tank or go with 3/4" then reduce at the tank to 1/2". I am pretty handy with a soldering iron so the DIY LED is the way to go. This tank will have a canopy so hiding the actual fixture wont be a problem. I am planning on using 3 watt Cree XP-E white and royal blue. I'm not sure whether to use a 1 to 1 ratio and whether to use 24 or 30 LED's.

02/25/2012, 09:10 PM	#9
mjhall85 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 535	just use 3/4 all the way to the tank that is how I did my 65 and then used 3/4 loc line. As far as the ratio of led's there is another part on this forum that talk about led's generally you use more whites than blue's but I am sure you will research it more and figure out what will be best for you and the color you want to achieve

03/06/2012, 09:31 AM	#10
privitor TC.ARK Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Palm City, Florida Posts: 229	+1 fpv930 i agree with what he said, i too have a 36g bow with a custom 3 compartment sump with and it tuut nice. Get the best equipment you can afford and have space for. It will cost you more in the end if you try to save a penny now. Plan plan plan and good luck