100 pounds of live..... or dead rock?????

[Cloudburst2000]

Originally Posted by MedRed

Did you read my original post?



That says that dead rock is no guarantee you won't get pest algae again, but whatever plagued his tank originally may still be present on the 2 year old wet rock.

This was followed by the blanket statement that all algae issues are nutrient related. That is not a conclusive true statement. I didn't say anything about not using his existing rock, I gave a very factual statement that just because of the conditions that the rock has been kept in over the past two years doesn't mean whatever took over his tank doesn't still exist on/in the rock.

Without knowing what type of problem algae he was dealing with, or the parameters of his last tank, there isn't much advice to give one way or the other except to keep your nutrients in check. For all we know it could have been caulerpa or something.

This is a tank that's been through:

• Dinoflagellates (mild outbreak developed over 3 months. Created by excess nutrients from decomposing starfish bits. Solved by removing harlequin shrimp. Cleared up in one water change in less than a week)

• Bubble Algae (introduced on frags, eliminated through manual removal)

• Bryopsis (introduced on frags, eliminated through lettuce snails and Kent Tech M)

• Red Turf Algae (introduced on the back of a shell of a CUC snail, managed by tuxedo urchins)

• Caulerpa (introduced on dendro frags, eliminated before it could spread by removal, manual scrubbing of frags, and two peroxide baths)

[IMG]http://i42.*******.com/359zo7n.jpg[/IMG]

I'm well versed in successfully dealing with algae issues. I stated a factual statement and was retorted with a less than factual one.

Aww...your crocodile has turned out lovely I remember when you did that rock work and it looked like a crocodile head coming out of the water LOL

And anyway, as a biologist as well as a chemist, I agree with MedRed. There is no way to be 100% sure that all spores were erradicated. Spores have been known to survive extremely harsh conditions. As MedRed said, life will find a way. He did not say that the OP would have the same algae problems again. All he said was that there was the possibility if any spores managed to survive which is not out of the realm of possibility. Did any algae spores survive? Who knows? It's probably unlikely but not impossible. If the OP wants to be 100% sure that spores are completely gone then he needs to go with the suggestion of totally killing the rock with bleach and water.

My main worry is that in the tank that was taken down, there was likely a nutrient problem (due to the algae issue) and I worry that the rocks absorbed some of the phosphates. This could lead to algae problems in the future. Personally, I feel the bleach/water suggestion would be going overboard. I think the OP should put the live rock in new salt water with good flow and see if any phosphates develop. If phosphates do develop with no other life in the tank, then the rock is leaching the phosphates into the water, and he needs to rid the rock of phosphates before starting up his system unless he wants a possible headache in the future.

[MedRed]

Lol@crocodile head! Thank you for the compliment. I failed to even think about the absorbed phosphates. That is a very valid point.

[sporto0]

Originally Posted by MedRed

all it takes is a few algae spores to have an outbreak again. You'll probably get pest algae at some point hitchhiking on frags even if you use dead rock, but I'm sure whatever existed on that rock two years ago has the propensity to come back in the right conditions.

Here is your original post, this is conjecture at best & hardly a valuable scientific FACT, nice try. We all realize nuisance algaes have great propensity to grow or regrow, as I have stated my rock was covered with it, not a strand remains & it's been in my tank since I started. Rock that has been in a trash can for 2 years through freezing temps as well as hot temps with no light or nutrients, regardless of much phosphate was bound within them (which certainly would have been leached out by now) would not have a greater propensity to regrow that same algae, sorry you are wrong, it's like effectively cooking the rock. How is that for a valid retort?

[Cloudburst2000]

Originally Posted by sporto0

Here is your original post, this is conjecture at best & hardly a valuable scientific FACT, nice try. We all realize nuisance algaes have great propensity to grow or regrow, as I have stated my rock was covered with it, not a strand remains & it's been in my tank since I started. Rock that has been in a trash can for 2 years through freezing temps as well as hot temps with no light or nutrients, regardless of much phosphate was bound within them (which certainly would have been leached out by now) would not have a greater propensity to regrow that same algae, sorry you are wrong, it's like effectively cooking the rock. How is that for a valid retort?

Actually, it is factual that spores can survive harsh conditions. That's what they are designed for after all. The definition of a spore is a reproductive structure that is adapted for dispersal and surviving for extended periods of time in unfavorable conditions. Why is algae so widespread and tenacious? Because of their incredible reproductive capacity and their ability to survive in a viable state (either in the plant form or as spores) in difficult environments and over long periods of time. Many species of algae can exist in a seemingly desiccated state for many years. In spite of heat, cold and radiation, some spores may germinate successfully on their return to a favourable environment after a period of several years. Algae spores can reach the home aquarium in many ways...though the air (probably more of a problem if you live near the ocean or have multiple tanks). Algae spores may also be introduced on new plants, snails and even in the feces of new fish. Tank furnishings and equipment can also carry algae spores when moved from one aquarium to another. Spores can be very hardy. They are designed to survive harsh conditions. Heck, there are bacterial spores that were still viable MILLIONS of years later, and you don't think it's possible that one algae spore could survive two years in cold saltwater with no light? All it takes is one viable spore.

[sporto0]

Originally Posted by Cloudburst2000

Actually, it is factual that spores can survive harsh conditions. That's what they are designed for after all. The definition of a spore is a reproductive structure that is adapted for dispersal and surviving for extended periods of time in unfavorable conditions. Why is algae so widespread and tenacious? Because of their incredible reproductive capacity and their ability to survive in a viable state (either in the plant form or as spores) in difficult environments and over long periods of time. Many species of algae can exist in a seemingly desiccated state for many years. In spite of heat, cold and radiation, some spores may germinate successfully on their return to a favourable environment after a period of several years. Algae spores can reach the home aquarium in many ways...though the air (probably more of a problem if you live near the ocean or have multiple tanks). Algae spores may also be introduced on new plants, snails and even in the feces of new fish. Tank furnishings and equipment can also carry algae spores when moved from one aquarium to another. Spores can be very hardy. They are designed to survive harsh conditions. Heck, there are bacterial spores that were still viable MILLIONS of years later, and you don't think it's possible that one algae spore could survive two years in cold saltwater with no light? All it takes is one viable spore.

Who doesn't know algae can come back in favorable conditions? The fact is pure & simple that rock does not have a GREATER propensity to regrow algae than any other rock you put in a tank, in fact it has less of a chance because it has been effectively cooked. We get it, if the conditions exist........algae will grow, that was never the OP's question. You gentelmen have chosen to go the worst case plausible scenario & say a spore or two could still exist, well duh, so what? I would reuse that rock with less worry than a new piece of live rock with a possible spore on it, your argument is pointless. Where does algae come from in a brand new tank? How does film algae gather on our glass? Where do Dinoflagellates suddenly appear from? This has been fun but I can't keep arguing a moot point. Of course algae could regrow but it is not more likely to regrow on that rock, sorry, I believe that you feel the same way but a good back & forth is hard to resist. I would love to present this scenario to a marine botanist & see what his hypothesis would be.

[MedRed]

Originally Posted by sporto0

Who doesn't know algae can come back in favorable conditions? The fact is pure & simple that rock does not have a GREATER propensity to regrow algae than any other rock you put in a tank, in fact it has less of a chance because it has been effectively cooked. We get it, if the conditions exist........algae will grow, that was never the OP's question. You gentelmen have chosen to go the worst case plausible scenario & say a spore or two could still exist, well duh, so what? I would reuse that rock with less worry than a new piece of live rock with a possible spore on it, your argument is pointless. Where does algae come from in a brand new tank? How does film algae gather on our glass? Where do Dinoflagellates suddenly appear from? This has been fun but I can't keep arguing a moot point. Of course algae could regrow but it is not more likely to regrow on that rock, sorry, I believe that you feel the same way but a good back & forth is hard to resist. I would love to present this scenario to a marine botanist & see what his hypothesis would be.

You are arguing for the sake of arguing. I explicitly stated that algae from the old rock could come back if the conditions were right. I also stated that algae could hitchhike into the tank even if he uses dead rock. The point was simple. The 2 year old rock was not free and clear, but starting with dead rock wasn't a fail proof bet either.

It's simple. no rocket science or marine botany necessary.

[fishhead79]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Do not boil live rock. It is dangerous. I would change the Water. Put a pump and heater in the tub and run some tests on it after a week or two..

+1 I wouldn't recommend boiling either. I'm currently doing the same thing. I had approx 250# of live and dead rock lying around in different containers, and recently decided to start cycling them again. I am using a 150 Rubbermaid trough and water from my water changes of my running system. I have black plastic covering the tub to prevent algae. I'm running a return pump to keep the water circulating and am using a small protein skimmer to remove the nasty's oh plus a heater. I will do this for a couple of weeks and periodically shake the crap out of the live rock. I also hooked up with the LFS to siphon their live rock display to re-seed and re-introduce bacteria. If anyone sees something that I could do differently in this post please LMK

[sporto0]

Originally Posted by MedRed

You are arguing for the sake of arguing. I explicitly stated that algae from the old rock could come back if the conditions were right. I also stated that algae could hitchhike into the tank even if he uses dead rock. The point was simple. The 2 year old rock was not free and clear, but starting with dead rock wasn't a fail proof bet either.

It's simple. no rocket science or marine botany necessary.

LOL, there is no fail proof method guy, you know this, no piece of rock is fail proof from algae, why would bother even bringing that up then? You didn't add to bleach the rock in your original post, you just stated an obvious fact to any reefer, algae could grow back, I fail to see your original point & I think a Marine Botanist would agree with me, that rock is as safe or non safe as any other from algae.

[ken55]

The Op is new to the Forum and has made only 4 posts. He asked a question and this is what he gets. A full blown argument over who is more correct than the other. The Op hasn't been heard from since line #5. I wonder why.

[MedRed]

I wonder why as well. Someone was more concerned with the last word, grasping at straws, and not being wrong than with anything else.

To the OP, you can use your existing rock again, but depending on the algae, you'll have to fix the issues that caused the outbreak in the first place, or you could see a re occurrence. Is the water in the trash can rain water? or something else? I would still test for phosphates just to be on the safe side. You'll probably need to use the kit in the future anyway as part of your tank maintenance.

[sporto0]

Lol, please feel free to have the last word Med (Red) but had you posted that in the first place nobody would have challenged your vague statement. BTW, you have a really nice looking tank & no hard feelings because nobody was wrong but I just question the way you went about it. Done & Done for me.

[MedRed]

No hard feelings here either. Thanks and cheers

[popemadness]

Now now boys ......its clear that all reef keeping is subjective I did put this question in the new to hobby but I've been tinkering for 15 years trying to keep up with the new technologies that have come a long way for home reefers. I have a a good amount of home education the problem algae was sold to me from the LFS and there was 3 maybe 4 of them .....bubble culerpa and hair algae. It was a 75 gallon and would. fluctuate look like I was getting control and then bloom again after checking noot levels and not seeing any spikes just could not get a hand on it maybe with more time I could have I took the tank down because I moved and did not set back up ...having said all this and reading all the post I think I know what to do it sound like spores are every were and what I have is no less no better than what I could spend more money on ....iam going to cycle in a toat and see what happens test and test again and be very aware of what goes in the display (thanks for the brain hurricane)

[MaxxedMan]

I'm not sure either of you know what "Resting your case" or "Case closed" means though