Clown fish + Anenome + Tank cycle - Page 2

kzooreefer · 03/29/2012, 02:36 PM

And on a lighter note my clown loves to host mushrooms. Buries himself deep in a patch of red ones.

Faye · 03/29/2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sponger0

Im seeing a bunch of 'sometimes'. Thats my point by saying prove it. Not being a jerk but wanting more info. But Ive heard and seen TR clowns not hots nems but host other things such as cups or mushrooms

In other words not meaning its guaranteed

You wrote:
And also with tank raised clowns, here's the kicker, they may never even host an anemone. Or even show any interest in it at all.

What I got from that is you're saying some tank raised clowns will not host any anemone ever. Am I right? If that is what you meant, you are wrong. Just like how infants know to hold their breath under water, clownfish know to use an anemone as a host.

If you meant something else, please clarify.

Ninong · 03/29/2012, 02:39 PM

To recap:

You don't need to add nitrifying bacteria to your tank. If you add live rock, the bacteria will colonize the live rock whether you do anything about it or not. Those bacteria are ubiquitous.

If you are using fully-cured lived rock, then you could add the clownfish as soon as three weeks after starting up the tank. If you are using uncured live rock, then you should wait three weeks after the live rock finishes curing. How long it takes uncured live rock to fully cure varies depending on the live rock.

It's best to wait at least three months before adding any host anemone and better to wait six months. There are a host of reasons why this is true but the bottom line is that your tank continues to go through a number of cycles after the initial cycle and anemones are more sensitive than clownfish. In fact, clownfish are one of the hardy species of fish that can be added first. Some fish (e.g., dward angelfish) should not be added until at least three months and six months would be better.

All of this is just good practice based on tons of experience shared by thousands of hobbyists.

P.S. -- I think I have already answered your questions about which host anemones are best for your percula and ocellaris clowns. A BTA will usually work for ocellaris clowns and sometimes works for percula clowns. Being tank-bred doesn't change the odds one way or the other.

Maroon clowns have only one natural host, E. quadricolor, so they have a very strong built-in attraction to that anemone species. Clark's clowns accept all ten clownfish-hosting anemones in the wild so their attraction doesn't have to be strong at all since any host anemone will do.

sponger0 · 03/29/2012, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye

You wrote:
And also with tank raised clowns, here's the kicker, they may never even host an anemone. Or even show any interest in it at all.

What I got from that is you're saying some tank raised clowns will not host any anemone ever. Am I right? If that is what you meant, you are wrong. Just like how infants know to hold their breath under water, clownfish know to use an anemone as a host.

If you meant something else, please clarify.

I was very clear...."may never" is not the same as "never". Knowing how to do something doesnt mean you will. I know to drive the speed limit but doesnt mean I will only dirve the speed limit.

Ninong · 03/29/2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye

I don't think crispa is a natural host for percula.

Dr. Daphne Fautin and Dr. Gerald R. Allen say that it is. Dr. Fautin's life's work is studying clownfish and their host anemones in situ.

Faye · 03/29/2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninong

Dr. Daphne Fautin and Dr. Gerald R. Allen say that it is. Dr. Fautin's life's work is studying clownfish and their host anemones in situ.

Look at that. I thought percs were limited to just gigs and mags. I was confused earlier which one of the two went to mertensii.

sponger0, yeah, that isn't limited to tank bred clowns though.

Ninong · 03/29/2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sponger0

Im seeing a bunch of 'sometimes'. Thats my point by saying prove it. Not being a jerk but wanting more info. But Ive heard and seen TR clowns not hots nems but host other things such as cups or mushrooms

In other words not meaning its guaranteed

You don't have that situation in nature because in nature the baby clownfish, following metamorphosis, will find its natural host. However, in an aquarium, which is a very artificial environment, any clownfish will sometimes adopt surrogate hosts other than it's natural host. In fact, many clownfish will prefer Gonipora spp. corals over their natural host. That has not been observed in nature for the simple reason that the Goniopora coral provides no protection whatsoever against predator fish that would eat the clownfish.

Whether the clown is tank-raised or not really doesn't matter. Maybe in a thousand generations tank-raised clownfish will lose their natural attraction to certain host anemones but that hasn't happened yet and is not likely to happen anytime soon.

Moorish_Idol · 03/30/2012, 08:57 AM

Does purple-up work for promoting the growth of coraline algae or is that stuff a waste of money???

Ninong · 03/30/2012, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moorish_Idol

Does purple-up work for promoting the growth of coraline algae or is that stuff a waste of money???

IMHO it's a waste of money.

tkeracer619 · 03/30/2012, 09:39 AM

Sponger. I have a pair ocellaris clown. Tank bread. They were in a fish only for 8 years before I got them. After 3 or so months they took to a rbta as a surrogate.

There is your proof.

Ohiomom · 03/30/2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Sponger. I have a pair ocellaris clown. Tank bread. They were in a fish only for 8 years before I got them. After 3 or so months they took to a rbta as a surrogate.

There is your proof.

So because your pair did that is proof that ALL clowns will? He never said that some won't host..he said that some MAY not..not sure why there is an arguement over semantics it is beyond me. There is no absolute one way or the other..

davocean · 03/30/2012, 10:21 AM

I think the way Sponger worded his opinion made it sound like tank bred clowns were problematic when it comes to accepting a host, and I think for the most part that is not correct.
Some species may be slower to accept a host nem, especially if it is not a natural match, and IMO occellaris seems to top that list.
It's pretty common for most of us to have clowns accept a host nem that is not a natural match, but a natural match does seem to happen faster.
Some clowns like Clarki or maroons seem extremely ready to accept a host nem, natural match or not, tank bred or wild caught, seems to make little or no difference.

03/29/2012, 02:36 PM	#26
kzooreefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 453	And on a lighter note my clown loves to host mushrooms. Buries himself deep in a patch of red ones. __________________ Tank.........29-gallon glass Lighting.....Current Orbit Marine LED Filtration....Reef Octopus BH90 HOB Skimmer, GFO Reactor. Flow..........2 Jebao WP10 Powerheads

03/29/2012, 02:39 PM	#28
Ninong Team RC Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: USA Posts: 3,376	To recap: You don't need to add nitrifying bacteria to your tank. If you add live rock, the bacteria will colonize the live rock whether you do anything about it or not. Those bacteria are ubiquitous. If you are using fully-cured lived rock, then you could add the clownfish as soon as three weeks after starting up the tank. If you are using uncured live rock, then you should wait three weeks after the live rock finishes curing. How long it takes uncured live rock to fully cure varies depending on the live rock. It's best to wait at least three months before adding any host anemone and better to wait six months. There are a host of reasons why this is true but the bottom line is that your tank continues to go through a number of cycles after the initial cycle and anemones are more sensitive than clownfish. In fact, clownfish are one of the hardy species of fish that can be added first. Some fish (e.g., dward angelfish) should not be added until at least three months and six months would be better. All of this is just good practice based on tons of experience shared by thousands of hobbyists. P.S. -- I think I have already answered your questions about which host anemones are best for your percula and ocellaris clowns. A BTA will usually work for ocellaris clowns and sometimes works for percula clowns. Being tank-bred doesn't change the odds one way or the other. Maroon clowns have only one natural host, E. quadricolor, so they have a very strong built-in attraction to that anemone species. Clark's clowns accept all ten clownfish-hosting anemones in the wild so their attraction doesn't have to be strong at all since any host anemone will do. __________________ Ninong

03/30/2012, 09:39 AM	#35
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Sponger. I have a pair ocellaris clown. Tank bread. They were in a fish only for 8 years before I got them. After 3 or so months they took to a rbta as a surrogate. There is your proof. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

03/30/2012, 10:21 AM	#37
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	I think the way Sponger worded his opinion made it sound like tank bred clowns were problematic when it comes to accepting a host, and I think for the most part that is not correct. Some species may be slower to accept a host nem, especially if it is not a natural match, and IMO occellaris seems to top that list. It's pretty common for most of us to have clowns accept a host nem that is not a natural match, but a natural match does seem to happen faster. Some clowns like Clarki or maroons seem extremely ready to accept a host nem, natural match or not, tank bred or wild caught, seems to make little or no difference. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

03/30/2012, 08:57 AM	#33
Moorish_Idol Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 92	Does purple-up work for promoting the growth of coraline algae or is that stuff a waste of money???