Cichlids in outside pond?

fritopie · 04/22/2012, 08:19 PM

Have a 600 gal galvanized steel stock tank (decorated NOT to look like one), with an 1800 gph pump, gravel and plant biofilter, and waterfall. minimal plants at this time. No substrate at this time. It is in an sitting on my enclosed porch so predators are not an issue.
Live in Texas about 80 miles or so , "as the crow flies" from the coast. Winter temps usually not too frequent below 20, and then, not very often. Right now the water temp is at around 73. The ph is pretty high 8.3 or 8.4. Hard water.
Any thoughts on whether Cichlids could be in it year round? If so, any recommendations? Love pretty much all of them. Would it be pointless to put such colorful fish in a tank that is viewable mostly from above? The tank is 6 foot diameter, so there is some viewing from angles other than straight above, but would it be worth it?

big cats · 04/22/2012, 08:49 PM

Throw a heater in there if temps get too low, keep it oxygenated, and you shouldn't have any problems. You will need a filtration of some sort. Maybe disguise a canister filter and run that on one end? Lighting might also be an issue as well unless the sun lights it well.

I'd like to see how it turns out

Browserz · 04/22/2012, 09:44 PM

How deep is the tank? Cichlids generally don't like to be in water that is cold. You could POSSIBLY have them in 70 degree water and have them live but they'd probably be very aggressive and unhealthy.

I'd suggest goldfish since they actually like cold water. If you want to keep cichlids in a pond year round the heaters needed to heat the whole pond up would be on all of the time.

big cats · 04/22/2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Browserz

How deep is the tank? Cichlids generally don't like to be in water that is cold. You could POSSIBLY have them in 70 degree water and have them live but they'd probably be very aggressive and unhealthy.

I'd suggest goldfish since they actually like cold water. If you want to keep cichlids in a pond year round the heaters needed to heat the whole pond up would be on all of the time.

I don't necessarily agree with this. A lot of the cichlids in the african lakes live at the bottom of a 600-800ft deep lake..I highly doubt the water is that warm down there all the time..

I doubt it will get that cold in the pond because the OP already stated it's in an enclosed patio room of the sort so the risk of predators is 0. I doubt it's going to get very cold in there.

Also, if the water doesn't cool off very fast, it's not going to make them unhealthy, and definitely won't make them aggressive either. When fish get cold the slow their movements and SAVE their energy. Similar to koi or goldfish in the winter. The heater would serve as a backup in the event that the water really does get too cold.

JEC11718 · 04/22/2012, 10:30 PM

pics or it didnt happen!

fritopie · 04/23/2012, 05:21 AM

The tank is 2 foot deep. The enclosure is screen, and it faces Northwest. But is semi protected from direct North winds by the house. It doesn't receive much sunlight. Best I recall, not even in the Summer. The pond was established this past October, and it is filtered quite well by the planted biological filter.

meanpressure · 04/23/2012, 06:07 AM

I would say you are alright if you can keep it around the mid seventies. PH of 8.3 is fine I kept cichlids in PH off the chart and they did just fine.

Rjukan · 04/23/2012, 06:24 AM

Even lake Tanganyika which is one of the top 5 largest lakes in the world and I think one of the top 3 deepest has fairly consistent temps all the way to the bottom, which is due to thermal activities underneath. I'm fairly certain that the other rift lakes (Malawi and Victoria) are the same.

As someone who keeps both cichlids and koi, I suggest forgetting the idea of putting african cichlids outside and keep beautiful koi out there instead. They would thrive in those conditions, after you bring the ph down a bit that is.

BigCountry74 · 04/23/2012, 07:19 AM

keep the water temp above 70 (not african cichs that will not work, north american cichs would probably be the best).

I agree with rjukan though, I would definitely do koi if your doing an outside pond, you can grow koi like weeds in there

BigCountry74 · 04/23/2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big cats

A lot of the cichlids in the african lakes live at the bottom of a 600-800ft deep lake..I highly doubt the water is that warm down there all the time...

yeah but we do not have access to any of those breeds do we? talking monster fish here? hehe

spieszak · 04/23/2012, 07:41 AM

saw a special once that had them down to about 50 before death looked imminent, they seemed fine at 60.... I don't remember the specific chiclid they were doing it with, but the special was about one of the invasive species that has made it into lakes and ponds.. they tested chiclids because of their hardiness, supposing that it would be less damage to the fish, and that they would truly be able to test the extremes with it...

ken55 · 04/23/2012, 07:52 AM

I personally know three people who have the Koi ponds. Easy as it gets and no concern at all about winter temps. When the water freezes over they simply go to the bottom and hibernate through the winter.

I should note that we live in central Va and the winters are not nearly as severe as further north but the ponds do freeze 2 to 3 inches during Jan/Feb. I've never been to Texas but I don't think it gets worse there.

fritopie · 04/23/2012, 09:36 AM

Well I've been told by several pond dealer/fish dealer experts I don't have enough depth (2 ft) nor room for koi. Thats what I originally had wanted, so then went to goldfish. Then I fell in love with Cichlids. I would love to have an aquarium inside, but I just can't envision a good spot for one based on the layout of our home. You know, all the " too much light, near a window, too much traffic", etc.

big cats · 04/23/2012, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCountry74

yeah but we do not have access to any of those breeds do we? talking monster fish here? hehe

We do actually. In my oceanography class in high school we watched a video on the rift lakes and there were divers down on the bottom filming them. And they were no larger than I have seen them in captivity.

Rjukan · 04/23/2012, 10:44 AM

The 2' depth only becomes an issue in 2 areas. One is during the cold months, the fish need to be deep enough that they have enough room under the ice. In your climate that's not an issue since at most you might have a thin layer of ice for a short amount of time. The other problem could be with predators, but imo 2' is enough to thwart most except maybe a determined raccoon, or some type of crane that would stand in the pond and pick out what he wants.

Regardless please don't try an house cichlids in there, its going to be too far a stretch from their normal environment for them to thrive. I'm sure there are other animals you can find that will be a better match for that system you have. Check out some pond forums and you will find what you're looking for.

WillM · 04/23/2012, 01:14 PM

The biggest issue with your set up is in your first post: the tank is galvanized. Galvanized means zinc and zinc = dead fish. Don't put fish into anything galvanized -- they will die.

People in Texas do have success with keeping cichlids outdoors, but they use pond liners or large plastic stock feeding tubs and generally either have to heat the water or move the fish back inside for the winter.

Rjukan · 04/23/2012, 01:18 PM

For some reason the description as a "stock tank" lead me to believe it was lined in some way lol. Like it was used for livestock water or something.

fritopie · 04/23/2012, 04:03 PM

I have to disagree about the galvanized stock tank. This is the third I have had, and the first one I had for 10 years and the fish and plants flourished.

. My concern is cichlids. And they use them to water livestock, so....
Keep sending me your thoughts!

04/22/2012, 08:19 PM	#1
fritopie Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Conroe Texas area Posts: 6	Cichlids in outside pond? Have a 600 gal galvanized steel stock tank (decorated NOT to look like one), with an 1800 gph pump, gravel and plant biofilter, and waterfall. minimal plants at this time. No substrate at this time. It is in an sitting on my enclosed porch so predators are not an issue. Live in Texas about 80 miles or so , "as the crow flies" from the coast. Winter temps usually not too frequent below 20, and then, not very often. Right now the water temp is at around 73. The ph is pretty high 8.3 or 8.4. Hard water. Any thoughts on whether Cichlids could be in it year round? If so, any recommendations? Love pretty much all of them. Would it be pointless to put such colorful fish in a tank that is viewable mostly from above? The tank is 6 foot diameter, so there is some viewing from angles other than straight above, but would it be worth it?

04/23/2012, 06:24 AM	#8
Rjukan Day Dreamer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: SINY Posts: 625	Even lake Tanganyika which is one of the top 5 largest lakes in the world and I think one of the top 3 deepest has fairly consistent temps all the way to the bottom, which is due to thermal activities underneath. I'm fairly certain that the other rift lakes (Malawi and Victoria) are the same. As someone who keeps both cichlids and koi, I suggest forgetting the idea of putting african cichlids outside and keep beautiful koi out there instead. They would thrive in those conditions, after you bring the ph down a bit that is. __________________ - Pete Current Tank Info: 60 gal Deep Blue cube, AquaC EV180, Kessil H80 fuge, A360WE TB

04/23/2012, 07:19 AM	#9
BigCountry74 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,761	keep the water temp above 70 (not african cichs that will not work, north american cichs would probably be the best). I agree with rjukan though, I would definitely do koi if your doing an outside pond, you can grow koi like weeds in there __________________ 135g mixed reef (retired) http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2132815 Current 40g reef http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2483250 Current Tank Info: 40g bare bottom reef

04/23/2012, 07:41 AM	#11
spieszak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,877	saw a special once that had them down to about 50 before death looked imminent, they seemed fine at 60.... I don't remember the specific chiclid they were doing it with, but the special was about one of the invasive species that has made it into lakes and ponds.. they tested chiclids because of their hardiness, supposing that it would be less damage to the fish, and that they would truly be able to test the extremes with it... __________________ I'm new to this saltwater thing, all comments should be taken with a BUCKET of salt! :-) -Stacey

04/23/2012, 07:52 AM	#12
ken55 A wing and a prayer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SoChes Posts: 635	I personally know three people who have the Koi ponds. Easy as it gets and no concern at all about winter temps. When the water freezes over they simply go to the bottom and hibernate through the winter. I should note that we live in central Va and the winters are not nearly as severe as further north but the ponds do freeze 2 to 3 inches during Jan/Feb. I've never been to Texas but I don't think it gets worse there. __________________ Current tank info: Last time I saw them they were leaning against a tree in my ex's backyard.

04/22/2012, 08:49 PM	#2
big cats Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Yucca Valley, CA, United States Posts: 338	Throw a heater in there if temps get too low, keep it oxygenated, and you shouldn't have any problems. You will need a filtration of some sort. Maybe disguise a canister filter and run that on one end? Lighting might also be an issue as well unless the sun lights it well. I'd like to see how it turns out

04/22/2012, 09:44 PM	#3
Browserz Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 88	How deep is the tank? Cichlids generally don't like to be in water that is cold. You could POSSIBLY have them in 70 degree water and have them live but they'd probably be very aggressive and unhealthy. I'd suggest goldfish since they actually like cold water. If you want to keep cichlids in a pond year round the heaters needed to heat the whole pond up would be on all of the time.

04/22/2012, 10:30 PM	#5
JEC11718 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 94	pics or it didnt happen!

04/23/2012, 05:21 AM	#6
fritopie Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Conroe Texas area Posts: 6	The tank is 2 foot deep. The enclosure is screen, and it faces Northwest. But is semi protected from direct North winds by the house. It doesn't receive much sunlight. Best I recall, not even in the Summer. The pond was established this past October, and it is filtered quite well by the planted biological filter.

04/23/2012, 06:07 AM	#7
meanpressure Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 137	I would say you are alright if you can keep it around the mid seventies. PH of 8.3 is fine I kept cichlids in PH off the chart and they did just fine.

04/23/2012, 09:36 AM	#13
fritopie Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Conroe Texas area Posts: 6	Well I've been told by several pond dealer/fish dealer experts I don't have enough depth (2 ft) nor room for koi. Thats what I originally had wanted, so then went to goldfish. Then I fell in love with Cichlids. I would love to have an aquarium inside, but I just can't envision a good spot for one based on the layout of our home. You know, all the " too much light, near a window, too much traffic", etc.

04/23/2012, 10:44 AM	#15
Rjukan Day Dreamer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: SINY Posts: 625	The 2' depth only becomes an issue in 2 areas. One is during the cold months, the fish need to be deep enough that they have enough room under the ice. In your climate that's not an issue since at most you might have a thin layer of ice for a short amount of time. The other problem could be with predators, but imo 2' is enough to thwart most except maybe a determined raccoon, or some type of crane that would stand in the pond and pick out what he wants. Regardless please don't try an house cichlids in there, its going to be too far a stretch from their normal environment for them to thrive. I'm sure there are other animals you can find that will be a better match for that system you have. Check out some pond forums and you will find what you're looking for. __________________ - Pete Current Tank Info: 60 gal Deep Blue cube, AquaC EV180, Kessil H80 fuge, A360WE TB

04/23/2012, 01:14 PM	#16
WillM Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 663	The biggest issue with your set up is in your first post: the tank is galvanized. Galvanized means zinc and zinc = dead fish. Don't put fish into anything galvanized -- they will die. People in Texas do have success with keeping cichlids outdoors, but they use pond liners or large plastic stock feeding tubs and generally either have to heat the water or move the fish back inside for the winter.

04/23/2012, 01:18 PM	#17
Rjukan Day Dreamer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: SINY Posts: 625	For some reason the description as a "stock tank" lead me to believe it was lined in some way lol. Like it was used for livestock water or something. __________________ - Pete Current Tank Info: 60 gal Deep Blue cube, AquaC EV180, Kessil H80 fuge, A360WE TB

04/23/2012, 04:03 PM	#18
fritopie Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Conroe Texas area Posts: 6	I have to disagree about the galvanized stock tank. This is the third I have had, and the first one I had for 10 years and the fish and plants flourished. . My concern is cichlids. And they use them to water livestock, so.... Keep sending me your thoughts!