Refugium Help

Jackwkahn · 06/12/2012, 10:02 PM

I have a 40 breeder display with a female leopard wrasse and a very small neon dottyback. I feed half a cube of PE mysis every day. The display is bare bottom with a very small amount of live rock. In the sump (20L), I have a reef octopus recirculating protein skimmer rated for 125 gallons, a TLF 150 reactor with half a cup of BRS lignite carbon and half a cup of BRS GFO. There is also a pump that feeds a 10 gallon display refugium, housing a small amount of live rock and a ball of chaeto. It is lit by 65 watts of power compact lighting. Now, the chaeto looks worse and worse everyday. It is almost all dead. However, the refugium is COVERED in thick cyano (which I manually remove with a turkey baster about 2x a week).

Im thinking of running the carbon in a filter bag and using the reactor solely for GFO, and will run a full cup instead of only half a cup.

What do you all think?
Is there anything else I should do?
Could Instabilities in tank parameters such as temp and alk be contributing?
Shouldn't the chaeto outcompete the cyano for nutrients?

Also, the cyano has begun spreading to the rocks in the main display...

Jackwkahn · 06/12/2012, 10:05 PM

Also I change out 5 gal of water weekly with reef crystals salt. all water originates with RODI

Neoburn1035 · 06/12/2012, 10:15 PM

1: The TLF reactor is only made to run one type of media.
2: GFO is whats killing your chaeto
3: Cyano is a bacteria not a algae

I used Boyd Chemiclean Red Slime Cyano Bacteria Remover.

Jackwkahn · 06/12/2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neoburn1035

1: The TLF reactor is only made to run one type of media.
2: GFO is whats killing your chaeto
3: Cyano is a bacteria not a algae

I used Boyd Chemiclean Red Slime Cyano Bacteria Remover.

1. BRS suggests running both carbon and GFO in the same reactor if two reactors is not an option. The media cannot be tumbled because the GFO is much harder than carbon and will grind it up. However the tumbling is not necessary because the mixing of the carbon and GFO will prevent the GFO from forming into a solid block that stops water flow.

2. Plenty of thriving refugiums are connected to tanks that run GFO or another PO4 remover.

3. I know this; however cyano is photosynthetic and thrives on nutrients like phosphate. These characteristics make it very similar to algae, especially algae that is being grown to take up these nutrients.

I am not using any chemical additives to remove cyano.

ReeferBill · 06/12/2012, 10:33 PM

How long has the tank been set up and how much liverock?

Jackwkahn · 06/12/2012, 10:38 PM

The tank was initially set up initially at the beginning of december. I had some overstocking issues, and about a month ago I removed the sand bed, Removed the limestone rock that I had gotten from my backyard, and Did a 100% water change. I also removed most of my fish. This is also when I started running carbon/GFO in the reactor and added the 10g refugium.

As for amount of live rock, its hard to say. Its 4 medium sized pieces, my guess is about 25 lbs, with maybe another 5 lbs in the refugium.

Neoburn1035 · 06/12/2012, 10:51 PM

If you don't want to use any chemical treatments. I can respect that. You could try a 3 Day black out. You may have some success with that. I didn't. I would say though your over stocking and maybe the limestone out of your back yard may have contributed to the situation you are in now. From personal experience though chemiclean worked in 48 hours. I did my 20% water change dropped in a chem-zorb bag and had no losses. Red slime gone and has never returned.

Jackwkahn · 06/12/2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neoburn1035

If you don't want to use any chemical treatments. I can respect that. You could try a 3 Day black out. You may have some success with that. I didn't. I would say though your over stocking and maybe the limestone out of your back yard may have contributed to the situation you are in now. From personal experience though chemiclean worked in 48 hours. I did my 20% water change dropped in a chem-zorb bag and had no losses. Red slime gone and has never returned.

wouldn't a complete removal of the backyard rock, sand bed, and water resolve this? Not to mention a drastic reduction in fish load prior to the "redo." Its not that I believe chemiclean to be ineffective or unsafe, I just have a hunch that I have a problem that needs solving.

Neoburn1035 · 06/12/2012, 11:02 PM

If should have but once it gets a hold it is hard to get rid of. Some people have also tried vodka or sugar dosing. I have not tried this so I am not sure how it works or how to dose it may want to look those up.

Jackwkahn · 06/13/2012, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neoburn1035

If should have but once it gets a hold it is hard to get rid of. Some people have also tried vodka or sugar dosing. I have not tried this so I am not sure how it works or how to dose it may want to look those up.

This reasoning makes sense. If the increase in GFO does not work I will consider chemiclean.

milhous3er · 06/13/2012, 11:07 AM

Kinda off topic but relates to your wrasse. Have you thought about adding a small section of sand for it to sleep in or retreat to when frightened ?

Maybe just a size of a strawberry container with sand.

Jackwkahn · 06/13/2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milhous3er

Kinda off topic but relates to your wrasse. Have you thought about adding a small section of sand for it to sleep in or retreat to when frightened ?

Maybe just a size of a strawberry container with sand.

I had it in there for her until I realized that she learned to sleep under the rocks

Danny_B · 06/13/2012, 12:33 PM

What are the parameters in the tank? (no3, po4) Sounds to me like you have instabilities (i.e. new stank syndrome) in the tank due to changing rock, sand, etc. My gut says dont do anything drastic, and wait it out for a couple months. The tank was maturing and then you changed things up. as for the chaeto dying...how old are your refugium bulbs? What how many hours do you run them a day? I replace my refuge bulbs every 3 months because they are power compacts, and i run them 18 hours a day.

Jackwkahn · 06/13/2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny_B

What are the parameters in the tank? (no3, po4) Sounds to me like you have instabilities (i.e. new stank syndrome) in the tank due to changing rock, sand, etc. My gut says dont do anything drastic, and wait it out for a couple months. The tank was maturing and then you changed things up. as for the chaeto dying...how old are your refugium bulbs? What how many hours do you run them a day? I replace my refuge bulbs every 3 months because they are power compacts, and i run them 18 hours a day.

I thought PO4 tests were a waste when It comes to nuisance algae(s). I am getting in Elos test Kits for Ca Mg and NO3 (already have a Red Sea for Alk).
I am using half the recommended dose of BRS GFO, shouldn't I increase the amount?

Danny_B · 06/14/2012, 01:11 AM

yes usually unless its hanna checker. nitrates would be interesting to know. How old are your refugium bulbs?

06/12/2012, 10:02 PM	#1
Jackwkahn Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: miami beach Posts: 993	Refugium Help I have a 40 breeder display with a female leopard wrasse and a very small neon dottyback. I feed half a cube of PE mysis every day. The display is bare bottom with a very small amount of live rock. In the sump (20L), I have a reef octopus recirculating protein skimmer rated for 125 gallons, a TLF 150 reactor with half a cup of BRS lignite carbon and half a cup of BRS GFO. There is also a pump that feeds a 10 gallon display refugium, housing a small amount of live rock and a ball of chaeto. It is lit by 65 watts of power compact lighting. Now, the chaeto looks worse and worse everyday. It is almost all dead. However, the refugium is COVERED in thick cyano (which I manually remove with a turkey baster about 2x a week). Im thinking of running the carbon in a filter bag and using the reactor solely for GFO, and will run a full cup instead of only half a cup. What do you all think? Is there anything else I should do? Could Instabilities in tank parameters such as temp and alk be contributing? Shouldn't the chaeto outcompete the cyano for nutrients? Also, the cyano has begun spreading to the rocks in the main display...

06/12/2012, 10:33 PM	#5
ReeferBill Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,906	How long has the tank been set up and how much liverock? __________________ I never realized I had to be a Chemist and a Marine Biologist to maintain a Reef Aquarium!

06/13/2012, 12:33 PM	#13
Danny_B Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: North Phoenix Posts: 399	What are the parameters in the tank? (no3, po4) Sounds to me like you have instabilities (i.e. new stank syndrome) in the tank due to changing rock, sand, etc. My gut says dont do anything drastic, and wait it out for a couple months. The tank was maturing and then you changed things up. as for the chaeto dying...how old are your refugium bulbs? What how many hours do you run them a day? I replace my refuge bulbs every 3 months because they are power compacts, and i run them 18 hours a day. __________________ 29g Mixed Reef, 10g Sump/Refugium, SCA-301 Cone Skimmer, 32x3w LEDs 12RB/8WW/4CB/4UV/2DR/2TQ 60°/80° optics, 35lbs Live rock, MP10es

06/14/2012, 01:11 AM	#15
Danny_B Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: North Phoenix Posts: 399	yes usually unless its hanna checker. nitrates would be interesting to know. How old are your refugium bulbs? __________________ 29g Mixed Reef, 10g Sump/Refugium, SCA-301 Cone Skimmer, 32x3w LEDs 12RB/8WW/4CB/4UV/2DR/2TQ 60°/80° optics, 35lbs Live rock, MP10es

06/12/2012, 10:05 PM	#2
Jackwkahn Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: miami beach Posts: 993	Also I change out 5 gal of water weekly with reef crystals salt. all water originates with RODI

06/12/2012, 10:15 PM	#3
Neoburn1035 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 41	1: The TLF reactor is only made to run one type of media. 2: GFO is whats killing your chaeto 3: Cyano is a bacteria not a algae I used Boyd Chemiclean Red Slime Cyano Bacteria Remover.

06/12/2012, 10:38 PM	#6
Jackwkahn Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: miami beach Posts: 993	The tank was initially set up initially at the beginning of december. I had some overstocking issues, and about a month ago I removed the sand bed, Removed the limestone rock that I had gotten from my backyard, and Did a 100% water change. I also removed most of my fish. This is also when I started running carbon/GFO in the reactor and added the 10g refugium. As for amount of live rock, its hard to say. Its 4 medium sized pieces, my guess is about 25 lbs, with maybe another 5 lbs in the refugium.

06/12/2012, 10:51 PM	#7
Neoburn1035 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 41	If you don't want to use any chemical treatments. I can respect that. You could try a 3 Day black out. You may have some success with that. I didn't. I would say though your over stocking and maybe the limestone out of your back yard may have contributed to the situation you are in now. From personal experience though chemiclean worked in 48 hours. I did my 20% water change dropped in a chem-zorb bag and had no losses. Red slime gone and has never returned.

06/12/2012, 11:02 PM	#9
Neoburn1035 Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 41	If should have but once it gets a hold it is hard to get rid of. Some people have also tried vodka or sugar dosing. I have not tried this so I am not sure how it works or how to dose it may want to look those up.

06/13/2012, 11:07 AM	#11
milhous3er Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lancaster, Ohio Posts: 326	Kinda off topic but relates to your wrasse. Have you thought about adding a small section of sand for it to sleep in or retreat to when frightened ? Maybe just a size of a strawberry container with sand.