Nitty Gritty Money Info

[jerkyjunky]

Still looking into about a 140g total volume setup with fish + corals. But being as how I've never owned an aquarium, I'm completely in the dark as to the ongoing costs. Can you guys help me generate a list of things I would need to consider in pricing out the monthly expense?

Power:
So far I'm estimating about 400W of LEDs, 30W skimmer, 80W return pump, tossing in say 100W for the sump light and 40W for 2xMP40s. If we assume lights are on half the time that is ~400W constant use.

Water:
Still unsure how often and how big of water changes I'm going to do. Guessing perhaps one every 2 weeks, say about 10%. The tank will be in a room that is generally speaking 75 degrees 95% of the time, and I don't plan for a heater or chiller. Thinking maybe 1g a day? So 60g total per month?

Dosing:
My system size and setup doesn't seem extensive enough to warrant a calc reactor, so going the dosing route. Not even sure where to begin in calculating how much that will be per month.

Food:
Frozen mysis is what I would like to be using as my go to food. I see packages of them at the LFS for 5$. Guessing one of those packages could last me a month?

Bulbs:
Since I'm going with LEDs I'm not planning for a bulb budget, but when should I start to expect those to go bad? And when that does, do you buy a new system or just replace the bulbs? (planning a DIY kit)

If there is anything I'm missing here, PLEASE let me know. I understand this is a fairly expensive hobby, but I'm not a huge fan of unexpected surprises.

[dunc101]

Originally Posted by jerkyjunky

Still looking into about a 140g total volume setup with fish + corals. But being as how I've never owned an aquarium, I'm completely in the dark as to the ongoing costs. Can you guys help me generate a list of things I would need to consider in pricing out the monthly expense?

Power:
So far I'm estimating about 400W of LEDs, 30W skimmer, 80W return pump, tossing in say 100W for the sump light and 40W for 2xMP40s. If we assume lights are on half the time that is ~400W constant use.

That sounds like a ton of LED's for a 140! What are the dimensions of the tank? Even if you were running 134 3 watt led's I HIGHLY doubt you would run them at 100%. I would email Mike at rapidled (staff@rapidled.com) to inquire about how many LED's he would suggest for that system. Make sure to state your length x width x height.

Originally Posted by jerkyjunky

Water:
Still unsure how often and how big of water changes I'm going to do. Guessing perhaps one every 2 weeks, say about 10%. The tank will be in a room that is generally speaking 75 degrees 95% of the time, and I don't plan for a heater or chiller. Thinking maybe 1g a day? So 60g total per month?

A 10% water change every 2 weeks sounds about right.
The evaporation will be more like 2-3 gallons a day on a 140. I use 1.5-2 on my 90 gallon.

Originally Posted by jerkyjunky

Dosing:
My system size and setup doesn't seem extensive enough to warrant a calc reactor, so going the dosing route. Not even sure where to begin in calculating how much that will be per month.

You will not need to start dosing until you start adding a lot of corals. You may also consider placing some kalkwasser in the topoff which should keep up with your alk and calcium demands unless (or until) you have a lot of large SPS colonies.

Originally Posted by jerkyjunky

Food:
Frozen mysis is what I would like to be using as my go to food. I see packages of them at the LFS for 5$. Guessing one of those packages could last me a month?

I like to feed a variety. Frozen mysis by itself just doesn't cut it for me. I use a combination of many frozen and flake foods mixed in with some selcon for vitamin. You can also try some rod's or rogers reef food (although these are pretty expensive at $20 bucks a sheet).

Originally Posted by jerkyjunky

Bulbs:
Since I'm going with LEDs I'm not planning for a bulb budget, but when should I start to expect those to go bad? And when that does, do you buy a new system or just replace the bulbs? (planning a DIY kit)

After 10 years or until you've "outgrown" your lights... ie... when you are bored and want to upgrade to the latest technology that comes out (I also have a DIY LED fixture and love it) lol.

Originally Posted by jerkyjunky

If there is anything I'm missing here, PLEASE let me know. I understand this is a fairly expensive hobby, but I'm not a huge fan of unexpected surprises.

I would like to add that you need a QT system. IMO, that is a must for any tank although many others will disagree. You can buy a simple 20 long, put a couple of PVC pieces in it and grab a HOB filter for bucks and a simple bubbler. A good QT shouldn't cost you more than 50-60 bucks to set up (fyi petco has a $1 a gallon sale going on now ). I put all my fish into QT for 8 weeks before they go in the DT. I do not like playing "russian roulette" and chancing any diseases wiping out my existing tank investments.

I probably spend $30 a month on electricity for all of my tanks (I have a 90 gallon reef, 36 gallon FW, a 20 long QT and a 10 gallon QT). The reef is obviously the "most expensive".
My current power rates here in AL is as follows for the summer:
First 1000 KWH $0.078
Over 1000 KWH $0.080
You will be spending more on corals than anything else I would say once you get it all set up.
Also, welcome to the reefing addiction! lol.

[jerkyjunky]

The display tank will be a 4x2x2 120g, and I was looking at getting this DIY LED kit:

Steve's 44-52" LED Kit

It has 56x 3watt bulbs, but the PSU is 400W. Guess then that most of it won't be used and I can count that down a bit?

Well if I am just using Kalk in the ATO, how much would that run me a month? Also, I do plan for corals, so when would that line be crossed to do dosing?

With the food I'm still more concerned about how much the food would cost monthly. If a 5$ thing of mysis would last a month that's a really reasonable figure. Do the flakes and others cost way more? Would you say 5$ is an okay estimate per month or am I way off?

Wow 10 years is pretty long. That would be like 3$ a month budgeted out to just buy a new system in 10 years. The bulbs were looking at 25$ a month. The LEDs keep getting better and better.

Yeah looks like 25-30$ a month on electricity from my calculations as well. Still need to look at how much 90gallons a month would be from my water company. I was planning a QT tank as well, but it will not be running all the time. So not calculating for it as a monthly fee, but instead as an added cost per purchase of fish/corals.

[earthboy17]

Budget for fish!?

[thegrun]

You may get away without a chiller but plan on two 250 watt heaters. Figure on average they will run for 4 hours a day.
Plan on the expense of test kits, you will want to test weekly if this is going to be a reef tank.
Plan on doubling or tripling whatever figure you come up with, this hobby is ALWAYS more expensive than planned.

[dunc101]

Originally Posted by jerkyjunky

The display tank will be a 4x2x2 120g, and I was looking at getting this DIY LED kit:

Steve's 44-52" LED Kit

It has 56x 3watt bulbs, but the PSU is 400W. Guess then that most of it won't be used and I can count that down a bit?

A 400 watt PSU just means it can use up to 400 watts. If you have 56 x 3 watts all at 100% you would be using 168 watts plus or minus a few depending on what mA you are driving them at and a small overhead.

Well if I am just using Kalk in the ATO, how much would that run me a month?

Here's the kalk I use.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...aquariums.html
I am currently utilizing 5 teaspoons per 1 gallon of top off water (you can use up to 2 teaspoons for 1 gallon before the water becomes fully saturated).
I've used maybe... half of that in 7 or 8 months lol. I have about 25 smaller SPS frags, not colonies yet.
[/QUOTE]

Also, I do plan for corals, so when would that line be crossed to do dosing?

That is what test kits are for, all systems are different. If you are purely LPS and softies, you may not ever need to supplement. A SPS heavy tank you will probably need to start dosing when you get some decent sized colonies.

With the food I'm still more concerned about how much the food would cost monthly. If a 5$ thing of mysis would last a month that's a really reasonable figure. Do the flakes and others cost way more? Would you say 5$ is an okay estimate per month or am I way off?

Yes, that is reasonable. It might be more like $10 a month if you plan to supplement selcon. It takes me about 3 months to go through 1 $10 bottle.
Here is a link:
http://premiumaquatics.com/store/mer...Category_Code=

Wow 10 years is pretty long. That would be like 3$ a month budgeted out to just buy a new system in 10 years. The bulbs were looking at 25$ a month. The LEDs keep getting better and better.

It is actually a little more than 10 years if you go by what they are rated at. They are rated at 50k hours. So if you run them 12 hours a day 365 a year it would take you 11.415 years. You will probably want the next "newest" technology before your lights would become "overused."

Yeah looks like 25-30$ a month on electricity from my calculations as well. Still need to look at how much 90gallons a month would be from my water company.

Water is very very cheap... lol. My rates are $2.25 for 1000 gallons. I then have sewer which is 1.5 times my water rate (stupid jefferson county!), but that is still cheap. Maybe $2 bucks a month for water and sewer for me spent on the reef/tanks.
You should look at how much it will cost to replace your RO/DI filters (you are planning on an RO/DI unit correct?). I have hard water where I live and it takes 4-5 months before I need to replace my filters and DI resin. That runs me $28.80 each time.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...ilter-kit.html
That's what I use.

I was planning a QT tank as well, but it will not be running all the time. So not calculating for it as a monthly fee, but instead as an added cost per purchase of fish/corals.

[jerkyjunky]

Originally Posted by thegrun

You may get away without a chiller but plan on two 250 watt heaters. Figure on average they will run for 4 hours a day.
Plan on the expense of test kits, you will want to test weekly if this is going to be a reef tank.
Plan on doubling or tripling whatever figure you come up with, this hobby is ALWAYS more expensive than planned.

I am very fortunate to live in a brand new house in a very temperate zone. I run my house at ~75 degrees all year round all day long, hot or cold. So that being said, the tank should run hotter than the room due to the pumps and lights. I can't see why I would need to plan to keep the water any warmer. Or am I missing something?

Also what would a good estimate for test kits run? I know they have limited uses, so if you test only weekly wouldn't they last quite a bit?

Wow Dunc, thanks for the break down! Didn't think about the RO/DI filters in my maths, so I'll toss that in. Not sure how hard the water is, but I am planning for my own unit under the sink. 30$ every 4 months isn't that bad, and if water isn't as bad as I'm thinking it will be should okay.

And earthboy, the fish budget in my mind is comparable to my budget for video games. The computer is one cost, the games are another.

[dunc101]

Originally Posted by jerkyjunky

Also what would a good estimate for test kits run? I know they have limited uses, so if you test only weekly wouldn't they last quite a bit?

Your main test kits are alk and calcium and what you will probably be testing with the most. The good news is that alk test kits are cheap! The salifert alk test kit gives you 100-200 tests (100 if you use the "normal test and 200 if you use the "use half") test and is only $15 bucks.
You could also opt for a hanna checker which is an up front $50 bucks and then you have to re buy the reagents at $9 for 25. Both are fast and accurate.
Calcium is a little more expensive at $26 for 50-100 tests (salifert).
The other test kits you will want is magnesium, and nitrate.
If you get a phosphate checker, the hanna is the best, hands down.

I personally only test alk and cal once a week and mag, nitrates, and phosphates once a month unless I notice some algae growth.

As far as heating the tank, the LED's will not add any heat to the tank. Your tanks heater will probably come on a decent amount during the winter time.

[MaxxedMan]

Daily costs are nothing compared to set up costs.

[jerkyjunky]

Originally Posted by MaxxedMan

Daily costs are nothing compared to set up costs.

Eh, at about 50$ a month for 10 years that is $6000. Depending on how you setup it could come out about equal. Just a good thing to make sure you know everything you're getting into price wise.