I built my sump wrong :(

[katekate087]

And now I have micro bubbles and my display tank just looks like there's stuff floating in it all the time! It's driving me insane. My buddy and I built the sump, same design as we built all our other friends' sumps, and weeks later when the water cleared and inhabitants are starting to be added we're like "crap" we had forgotten a baffle
What should I do? I'm hoping not to have to clean out everything in my sump/refugium, dry it, glue glass and then hope my tank stays stable... Is there anything you guys have ever come across to help the micro bubble issue? I thought to maybe put some sponge coral, not living ones, in between the two baffles to filter the water and slow it down a little before it goes in the skimmer/ return section. I'm new at this and any suggestions would help... I know the sponge idea seems a little out there. I really just don't want to have to take everything apart if there's ANY way I can get around it.

[jackde]

Never done it myself but seem to remember a thread useing 1/4" foam to hold in baffles. Try doing a search in DIY.

[katchupoy]

just so you know. I have a 20 gallon long as a sump with no baffles. no issues with micro bubbles.

Causes.
1) the return from the main tank is too much momentum entering the sump. If you can control this, this will help a lot.

How?

a) maybe use a "j pipe" effect. this means that by simply adding a j shaped pipe at the end of the return can control the momentum entering the sump. research it here, it should be a simple DIY.

b) face the return to one of the glass wall facing opposite the return pump. The key is to separate as far as possible the outlet of the return from the main tank and the intake of the return pump the farther the better.

c) another way of controlling is the flow on your sump. If you have too much power on your return pump, it also means too much water going back to the sump. A sump can only handle so much flow at a time. If you exceed that, then the bubbles does not have much time to go to the surface before it reach the return pump. Maybe you can throttle the return pump and see what happens. Put a "T" and and then a valve. Dont just put a valve without a "T". it might damage your return pump.

See if these help.

Remember, you need at least x number of seconds from your main tank return and to your return pump intake.

Hope this helps.

[thor109]

I added beads of silicon on edges of baffle and let it cure. When I put baffle in tank it fit tight and did not move. I added two pieces of acrylic on bottom and one on each side toward top so the water pressure could not move baffle. It might leak a little but does the job.

[uncleof6]

Originally Posted by katekate087

And now I have micro bubbles and my display tank just looks like there's stuff floating in it all the time! It's driving me insane. My buddy and I built the sump, same design as we built all our other friends' sumps, and weeks later when the water cleared and inhabitants are starting to be added we're like "crap" we had forgotten a baffle
What should I do? I'm hoping not to have to clean out everything in my sump/refugium, dry it, glue glass and then hope my tank stays stable... Is there anything you guys have ever come across to help the micro bubble issue? I thought to maybe put some sponge coral, not living ones, in between the two baffles to filter the water and slow it down a little before it goes in the skimmer/ return section. I'm new at this and any suggestions would help... I know the sponge idea seems a little out there. I really just don't want to have to take everything apart if there's ANY way I can get around it.

Where are the bubbles coming from? Solve the bubble issue at the source, and there is no need for a bubble trap in the sump.

Source number 1: The drain line. Most often this is the problem. Using air assisted drain lines (durso/stockman/modifications included) at a flow rate at which the physics do not allow them to perform without issues. Solution: Slow the flow rate, and/or increase the drain line size. There are many "band aids" to put on them, but ultimately all they do is change how the air is introduced into the line, how the water exits the drain line etc. They do not solve the issue, and ultimately, slowing the flow rate is what makes the drains performance "acceptable." The total solution is converting to a siphon system.

Source number 2: The skimmer. Resulting from NOT following the manufacturers adjustment recommendations, rather what some one said works. Solution: Adjust the skimmer properly.

Source number 3: Pump cavitation. Results from restricting the pump inlet. Solution: remove the restriction.

Source number 4: Water falls too far between compartments in the sump. This is the only problem that requires that the sump be reworked. Water levels raised, or lowered, baffle heights revised, sump too narrow for your flow rate, etc.

For the first three issues, revising or redesigning the sump on the fly, or offline, is not going to help you that much anyway, and for an initial solution do not even require that you shut the system down.

[bdwilson]

I use a filter sock, it traps all the bubbles. I change the filter sock about once a week.

[uncleof6]

Originally Posted by bdwilson

I use a filter sock, it traps all the bubbles. I change the filter sock about once a week.

Socks should be changed out every day--every other day at the very least. Any longer than that just places added burden on the system, leading to things such as elevated nitrates, and lowered oxygen levels. If it is collected, it needs to be out of the system, instead of left rotting for a week.

[bdwilson]

Originally Posted by uncleof6

Socks should be changed out every day--every other day at the very least. Any longer than that just places added burden on the system, leading to things such as elevated nitrates, and lowered oxygen levels. If it is collected, it needs to be out of the system, instead of left rotting for a week.

I value your opinion on this but I think it depends on the system setup as to how often the socks need changed. My system runs with 0 nitrates changing the socks once a week. There are setups that need the socks changed more often because of the bioload put on them. Once a week works for me.

[uncleof6]

I disagree strongly, that it is system dependant. In any system, collecting organic material and leaving it to rot, will increase the burden on the system. It really does not matter if you see increased "nitrate" with a test kit or not, the burden has been increased. Ammonia production has been increased, nitrite production has been increased, more nitrate is being produced. This increases the BOD (biological oxygen demand--) and increases the burden on whatever method you use for nitrate export.

Bacteria do not hang out in the water column. They are attched to substrates. This organic material does not really start to rot, until it settles, or is collected.

It is a good thing that, after a "long battle," mechanical filtration is finally be seen as a bad idea. The label of "nitrate factory" may be appropriate, however it may be inaccurate. What we are concerned with in a marine system cannot be removed by mechanical filtration: Dissolved organics. The floating organic material is a food source, and is not a problem really, until it settles out or is collected and left in the system. Producing more dissolved organics. Particulates are easy to remove, dissolved organics are not, and are the main reason for problems in marine systems. The skimmer and water changes are really the only ways to deal with the dissolved organics, other than bacterial activity.

So by leaving that sock in for a week, you have increased the work the rest of the system has to do, and reduced what the critters can do. Think of it as taking a trip from 200 feet above sea level to 12000 feet above sea level. The lower oxygen level, may not produce an outward sign, however your ability will be decreased. Same with your critters. There is not much oxygen in salt water, 6 ppm is pushing it. Many systems, I would suspect of being lower--4 - 5 ppm.

It really doesn't matter how the system is setup, this is going to happen. I really don't believe that solving a bubble issue, that is purely aesthetic, by utilizing socks--and placing an added burden on the system, no matter how large or how small, is a viable trade off. When we accept the responsibility for the critters lives, we have to put their needs in front of aesthetics or convenience. Socks should be replaced everyday--skimmers should be cleaned everyday also. The information is out there if you look for it.

I see it as more valuable to educate people on how to solve the issues with these drain systems, rather than how to put a bandaid on them, that places an increased burden on the system. Socks are not 'evil', however the level of required maintenance is higher than most want to deal with.

[mikelee35]

get a sponge filter and cut it to fit inside your baffle (if you fold it in half it will stay wedged in) and that will collect the large majority of your micro bubbles

[uncleof6]

See the above concerning adding mechanical filtration to solve a bubble problem

[katchupoy]

I agree with UNCLEOF6, fix the issue with the source first.
I worry about the foam trapping the bubbles but at the same time trapping particles that becomes detritus.

It will become added task to your already busy schedule. And if left alone, will do more harm than good.

Hope this helps.

[katekate087]

Thanks everyone! I'll let y'all know how it goes.

[Reef_Knight]

Keep us updated. I'm scared to run into something like this when I build mine for the first time unless I plan thoroughly.