new to external pumps, need some help

[joeogio]

ok here is the basic idea of what i want to do i have a already setup 40g breeder drilled with glass holes overflow/returns. i also have a 125g tank thats 1/2" un tempered with matching stand and hood i want to drill the tank and install a glass holes overflow and run the returns externally up in the hood. i plan to use one large sump and skimmer to run both systems. the 40g has power heads in the tank for circulation but in the 125 i want to do a closed loop by drilling a 1.5" bulkhead under the overflow box that has 2 1.5" bulkheads.

if its possible i would like to run the entire system of one huge efficient reeflo pump. that would mean that the pump is taking water from the sump and from the bulkhead under my overflow. the water from the bulkhead under my overflow will go directly back up into the 125 figuratively speaking like a closed loop. i would have one giant heavy duty check valve before the sump that will prevent water from coming backwards into the sump from the returns and from the bulkhead in the event of a power or pump failure.

i would be using the appropriate sized pvc with unions wherever needed and ball valves to shut off flow for maintenance and for regulation of flow

heres a poorly drawn picture of what i would like to do, do you think i could run the system this way, im mainly concerned about the "closed loop" portion of it because its really not closed and i havent seen anyone set their tank up this way. honestly i dont see why it wouldn't work because you could regulate the water comming from the bulkhead for the closed loop so that the pump is still taking enough water from the sump to filter efficiently.

[Waddleboy]

assuming that the height of your 40 breeder is the same as your 125 its risky but theoretically should work? (maybe). The check valve scares me because if that fails (which they do) your gonna drain all the way to the strainer. If the 40 breeder is lower than the 125, water does that funny thing where it will flow up if it can find a lower point. Assuming you dont create a siphon break into your 40 breeder, your 125 might flow into the 40 with power down. I am doing this based on your picture and so hopefully its accurate if not it at least gives you something to think about

[joeogio]

Originally Posted by Waddleboy

assuming that the height of your 40 breeder is the same as your 125 its risky but theoretically should work? (maybe). The check valve scares me because if that fails (which they do) your gonna drain all the way to the strainer. If the 40 breeder is lower than the 125, water does that funny thing where it will flow up if it can find a lower point. Assuming you dont create a siphon break into your 40 breeder, your 125 might flow into the 40 with power down. I am doing this based on your picture and so hopefully its accurate if not it at least gives you something to think about

hey good thinking, idk if they are the same height ill have to check. and yeah the thought of that check valve failing eeek! i could create a riser for the tank stand to make them the same height. is their a type of check valve that's not know to fail ? maybe i could use two of them

[planedoc]

The level of the 125 would be controlled by adding more water into the tank than what is draining out the strainer(closed loop). You would need to get this adjusted perfect. As soon as something changed you could A , drain the 125 down to strainer and overflow sump B, overflow the 125 or C overflow 40. Too much room for error. It will run but one day it will fail. Closed loop needs to be closed, no part of sump.

[joeogio]

Originally Posted by planedoc

The level of the 125 would be controlled by adding more water into the tank than what is draining out the strainer(closed loop). You would need to get this adjusted perfect. As soon as something changed you could A , drain the 125 down to strainer and overflow sump B, overflow the 125 or C overflow 40. Too much room for error. It will run but one day it will fail. Closed loop needs to be closed, no part of sump.

yeah you made a good point, i know it would require a certain level of adjustment but im unsure if it would be a narrow window of adjustment or a wide range but in either case im with you on the point of their being too much room for error.

do you think if i ran two reeflo dart pumps one for the returns and one for the closed loop there would be a heat issue with the tank, ill be running t5 lights on the 40 and 2 150w metal halide pendants on the 125 untill i get the stuff together to build led fixtures. which shouldnt be too awful long after i get everything going. my room stays pretty cool i currently have the same 150w pendants on my 55g tank and it runs about 80 degrees with a fan over the sump

[crazy4reefs]

heat shouldn't be an issue with the reeflo pumps

[joeogio]

Originally Posted by crazy4reefs

heat shouldn't be an issue with the reeflo pumps

that's assuring thanks, also what about noise ive read so many different things about them and i haven't got a clear answer. and im thinking the key here is how quiet, i know the series i was interested in are fan cooled so there will be a little noise. if there's a little hum thats fine i just dont want it to be roaring, i went to a buddys house that has a hammerhead pump on his 220g tank and his was very loud, but his pump was getting quite a bit of air so i told him thats probably why it was loud. ill have to check back with him and see how it is now that he got the air issue fixed

[MarkGP]

I have heard the reeflo pumps are pretty quiet but like all external pumps they do put out some noise. I run a gen-x on a basement sump for my 125 and it's fine in the basement. I definitely would not want it upstairs!

[joeogio]

thanks guys, i checked up with my friend today and he said that after he got the air problem fixed and after the pump ran for a bit it is pretty quiet "not noticeable" he said, so that is some assurance. im going to start a build thread soon here on reef central so keep an eye out for my build thread. and again thanks for the help

[joeogio]

heres a pic of my sketchup drawing im working on for my build

[billdogg]

If you want to use a closed loop, go ahead. I do, and I think it's great. HOWEVER - It MUST be a true closed loop. What you have described is not a closed loop, and depending on a check valve (no matter how often you clean/replace it, is waiting for the flood that WILL happen, unless your sump is large enough to hold all the drain back that will occur. I would guess that would mean something in the 75g range for a sump.

A DART will be more than ample to run the two tanks - I use one for a closed loop and another for the returns on my 150dt/120fuge/50 sump, and the return pump also runs my reactors, with flow to spare.

[Chris27]

Originally Posted by billdogg

If you want to use a closed loop, go ahead. I do, and I think it's great. HOWEVER - It MUST be a true closed loop. What you have described is not a closed loop, and depending on a check valve (no matter how often you clean/replace it, is waiting for the flood that WILL happen, unless your sump is large enough to hold all the drain back that will occur. I would guess that would mean something in the 75g range for a sump.

A DART will be more than ample to run the two tanks - I use one for a closed loop and another for the returns on my 150dt/120fuge/50 sump, and the return pump also runs my reactors, with flow to spare.

That's the best answer so far....1 pump for the returns, and a separate for the closed loop. Keep the plumbing simple, anytime you start getting crafty, it can and likely will end in disaster no matter how many fail-safes you put in.

[joeogio]

Originally Posted by billdogg

If you want to use a closed loop, go ahead. I do, and I think it's great. HOWEVER - It MUST be a true closed loop. What you have described is not a closed loop, and depending on a check valve (no matter how often you clean/replace it, is waiting for the flood that WILL happen, unless your sump is large enough to hold all the drain back that will occur. I would guess that would mean something in the 75g range for a sump.

A DART will be more than ample to run the two tanks - I use one for a closed loop and another for the returns on my 150dt/120fuge/50 sump, and the return pump also runs my reactors, with flow to spare.

Thanks!

[joeogio]

oh and heres my build thread i just started http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2199613