New to Saltwater 46G Bowfront

etymotic · 08/06/2012, 09:27 AM

Hello!
My girlfriend and I are looking to start a reef tank. WE ARE SUPER STOKED!

The plan is to keep soft corals (our lights are probably not adequate for anything more) and fish, and some form of CUC.

What we have:
46 Gallon Bowfront tank
T5HO lighting x4 (2x actinic and 2x 10,000k)

What we plan to get:
2x Hydor Koralia Nano 425
75lbs dry rock (from reefrocks)
80lbs dry sand (from reef rocks)
IPSF Coralline Booster Plates
CPR large HOB refugium and skimmer

Chemicals and testing:
API Reef Master Test Kit
Seachem Reef Salt
Seachem Reef Complete
Seachem Reef Plus
Seachem Reef Buffer

My question today (there will probably be way more to follow) is regarding the Refugium and protein skimmer. The cheapest pricing i have found for this combo is about 275 bucks. On the other hand, I have found just the refugium, sans skimmer for 150.
So, Is there a better HOB skimmer than the one that comes with CPR for around $125? Is there any benefit to having the skimmer separate from the refugium or vice versa.

Thanks for your input!

Also, am I missing anything? Or any other input would be greatly appreciated.

daninflipflops · 08/06/2012, 09:35 AM

will need a RO/DI unit and a refractometer. i got both from bulk reef supply. I got the 5 stage PLUS unit and thier refractometer. love both items

etymotic · 08/06/2012, 10:20 AM

Ahh, yes. I have both of those in my mental list, they just didn't come out when typing.
Thanks for the bulk reef supply review. Pricing looks fair for the items.

daninflipflops · 08/06/2012, 10:48 AM

another thing to consider with pickout out a RO/DI unit is the replacement filter costs. BRS system had the cheapest replacement filters i found. BRS gets a lot of great reviews on here. sign up on thier website and then email them to get into the reef central group buy. that will save you money, i think the sale is usually the first week of the month. that RO/DI i suggested was $20 bucks off during the last group buy

fishgate · 08/06/2012, 11:03 AM

I suggest drilling the tank now for a sump. Either go sump now or drill and plug the holes and be ready to go. There is no drilling once the tank is established.

etymotic · 08/06/2012, 12:02 PM

Can I get by without drilling the tank? I'd rather not if I didn't have to, my luck it would break.

fishgate · 08/06/2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etymotic

Can I get by without drilling the tank? I'd rather not if I didn't have to, my luck it would break.

Yes - you can do hang on back overflows. That is what I have but I really regret not drilling. So much cleaner and way more reliable. You can also get 100% of the crap that sits over the edge off the tank and in the sump. Makes the tank look so much cleaner.

Reeferz412 · 08/06/2012, 01:10 PM

You can go sumpless, its not impossible, just more work. I am sumpless on my 46BF. I have an AC110 and a WM H2 skimmer (the big brother of the Aquamaxx hob skimmer). I suggest if you buy an hob skimmer to go with an Aquamaxx, Eshopps Hob, or Octopus. All three of those are extremely reliable and the better end of the bang for your buck HOB skimmers. My AC110 has rubble rock and chaetomorpha.

etymotic · 08/06/2012, 03:06 PM

Okay, so in a sumpless setup, is there any advantage to having the skimmer and Refugium in one? Or are the seperate HOB skimmers better?

bensr20det · 08/06/2012, 05:56 PM

I had the reef octopus BH-100ss HOB skimmer on a 55 gallon and it worked very well

Reeferz412 · 08/07/2012, 10:21 AM

skimmer/refugium combinations are pretty bad performers. The cpr skimmer/fuge is alright but I hear there are microbubble issues, plus it is expensive for no reason. The only benefit I can see is that you have one pump in your tank instead of two seperate ones feeding your skimmer and fuge. My WM H2 skimmer has an external pump so nothing is in the tank except the input and output tube, and my aquaclear only has the intake tube. My sumpless setup is ACTUALLY aesthetically pleasing. My reactor will also be hob and hang on my aquaclear, the pump will be in the media section with the chaeto.

MXracer52 · 08/07/2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishgate

Yes - you can do hang on back overflows. That is what I have but I really regret not drilling. So much cleaner and way more reliable. You can also get 100% of the crap that sits over the edge off the tank and in the sump. Makes the tank look so much cleaner.

I agree with fishgate. Drill now and you won't regret it. I have a HOB overflow and really wish I would have drilled my tank. It's safer and looks much cleaner overall

greech · 08/07/2012, 12:26 PM

While I see the advatages of having a drilled tank (there are many) and my next tank will be drilled, I actually don't mind my HOB overflow and like the ability to remove it and clean the crud out. I can also place the overflow where I want which has also come in handy. IMO, avoid the HOBs that require aqualifter pumps (CPR, etc) and go for the U-tube style boxes (eshopps, life reef, etc.).

+1 to avoiding refugium/skimmer combos. Much like electronics, buying combos typically results in reduced performance of at least one of the components.

I went sumpless for almost 2 years and while I did ok, my tank significantly got better once I added a sump and a good submersible skimmer.

I have a 40B with similar dimensions and I encourage you to move your circulation pumps up to the 750s from the 425s and possibly up to the 1050s (or maybe 1x750 and 1x1050). It will depend on what you want to keep and how much rock you load into the tank but the 425s are not going to cut it for most applications IMO.

greech · 08/07/2012, 12:28 PM

Also, do youself a favor and leave all those chemicals off your list (at least for now). A good salt mix will contain all you need for that size tank for quite some time.

College Fishman · 08/07/2012, 12:30 PM

Pretty pumped to see your tank man

etymotic · 08/12/2012, 04:46 PM

OK, I've got the go ahead to drill the tank! Crossing my fingers that that I dont break it,or I'll be on the couch!

Thanks for the info on the salt mix and other chemicals, greech. Ive read on Seachem's website that those were the recommended chemicals for reef tanks. Ive used Seachem's other products with great success on my two freshwater tanks, so i figured i'd stick with their guidelines. Obviously, I would not dose them if when monitoring my levels they were not called for.

Here is my preliminary design for sump and refugium. Any advice on where or what kind of valves should be placed? the refugium would be on top and sump with return would be on the bottom. Since this is going on my second floor I've decided to disperse some of the weight by having the tank and sump/refugium on the side of one another.

Let me know what you guys think. Thanks again, this is a wonderful site with loads of info and very knowledgeable members.

Reeferz412 · 08/13/2012, 01:51 PM

Lmk when you get off the ground. I am a sumpless 46 owner, i would like to compare haha.

Spyderturbo007 · 08/13/2012, 05:19 PM

I think 80lbs of sand is going to be a lot of sand for a 46g. How deep are you looking to go with the sand bed? I have about 40lbs in my 55 corner flow and it's about 3" or so in most places.

ReeferBill · 08/13/2012, 05:51 PM

80 lbs of sand is only a 5 gallon to 6 gallon bucket full , it will make a good Deep sand bed! Go for it.

etymotic · 08/14/2012, 07:31 AM

The sand from reef rocks comes in 40lb increments. I don't know if I will use all of it, but I will likely have about 3" in the DT and 5-6" in the Refugium.

Now I'm freaking myself out about the total weight. The tank is going against an outside wall. So I figured it would be okay.

etymotic · 08/15/2012, 02:42 PM

anyone have any idea on valve placement for the plumbing? or know a good resource where i can read up on sump plumbing?

08/06/2012, 09:27 AM	#1
etymotic Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 11	New to Saltwater 46G Bowfront Hello! My girlfriend and I are looking to start a reef tank. WE ARE SUPER STOKED! The plan is to keep soft corals (our lights are probably not adequate for anything more) and fish, and some form of CUC. What we have: 46 Gallon Bowfront tank T5HO lighting x4 (2x actinic and 2x 10,000k) What we plan to get: 2x Hydor Koralia Nano 425 75lbs dry rock (from reefrocks) 80lbs dry sand (from reef rocks) IPSF Coralline Booster Plates CPR large HOB refugium and skimmer Chemicals and testing: API Reef Master Test Kit Seachem Reef Salt Seachem Reef Complete Seachem Reef Plus Seachem Reef Buffer My question today (there will probably be way more to follow) is regarding the Refugium and protein skimmer. The cheapest pricing i have found for this combo is about 275 bucks. On the other hand, I have found just the refugium, sans skimmer for 150. So, Is there a better HOB skimmer than the one that comes with CPR for around $125? Is there any benefit to having the skimmer separate from the refugium or vice versa. Thanks for your input! Also, am I missing anything? Or any other input would be greatly appreciated.

08/06/2012, 11:03 AM	#5
fishgate Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Damascus, MD Posts: 3,340	I suggest drilling the tank now for a sump. Either go sump now or drill and plug the holes and be ready to go. There is no drilling once the tank is established. __________________ 125RR in-wall, 40B Sump, CS180 BM Skimmer, ATI 4x80 watt, eheim 1262, custom wrap around rock wall, ReefKeeper Elite 120g in-wall, 40B Sump, PC 54wx4, Jabao DC-6000 (full siphon), future seahorse t Current Tank Info: 125g, 120g, 2x40b sumps, ATI 4x80 T5HO

08/06/2012, 01:10 PM	#8
Reeferz412 Coral Hoarder Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,247	You can go sumpless, its not impossible, just more work. I am sumpless on my 46BF. I have an AC110 and a WM H2 skimmer (the big brother of the Aquamaxx hob skimmer). I suggest if you buy an hob skimmer to go with an Aquamaxx, Eshopps Hob, or Octopus. All three of those are extremely reliable and the better end of the bang for your buck HOB skimmers. My AC110 has rubble rock and chaetomorpha. __________________ Alex FMAS Member Current Tank Info: 400 Gallons of frags... 30 gallon Deep Blue mixed reef ... 70 other tanks throughout south FL

08/06/2012, 05:56 PM	#10
bensr20det Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Louisville Ky Posts: 54	I had the reef octopus BH-100ss HOB skimmer on a 55 gallon and it worked very well __________________ “Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.” - Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef, 75lbs of LR, Current USA Outer Orbit 48 w/ 2x130watt actinics and 2x150watt HQI 10000K, Reef Octopus HOB BH-1000

08/07/2012, 10:21 AM	#11
Reeferz412 Coral Hoarder Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,247	skimmer/refugium combinations are pretty bad performers. The cpr skimmer/fuge is alright but I hear there are microbubble issues, plus it is expensive for no reason. The only benefit I can see is that you have one pump in your tank instead of two seperate ones feeding your skimmer and fuge. My WM H2 skimmer has an external pump so nothing is in the tank except the input and output tube, and my aquaclear only has the intake tube. My sumpless setup is ACTUALLY aesthetically pleasing. My reactor will also be hob and hang on my aquaclear, the pump will be in the media section with the chaeto. __________________ Alex FMAS Member Current Tank Info: 400 Gallons of frags... 30 gallon Deep Blue mixed reef ... 70 other tanks throughout south FL

08/06/2012, 09:35 AM	#2
daninflipflops In Memoriam Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 208	will need a RO/DI unit and a refractometer. i got both from bulk reef supply. I got the 5 stage PLUS unit and thier refractometer. love both items

08/06/2012, 10:20 AM	#3
etymotic Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 11	Ahh, yes. I have both of those in my mental list, they just didn't come out when typing. Thanks for the bulk reef supply review. Pricing looks fair for the items.

08/06/2012, 10:48 AM	#4
daninflipflops In Memoriam Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 208	another thing to consider with pickout out a RO/DI unit is the replacement filter costs. BRS system had the cheapest replacement filters i found. BRS gets a lot of great reviews on here. sign up on thier website and then email them to get into the reef central group buy. that will save you money, i think the sale is usually the first week of the month. that RO/DI i suggested was $20 bucks off during the last group buy

08/06/2012, 12:02 PM	#6
etymotic Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 11	Can I get by without drilling the tank? I'd rather not if I didn't have to, my luck it would break.

08/06/2012, 03:06 PM	#9
etymotic Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 11	Okay, so in a sumpless setup, is there any advantage to having the skimmer and Refugium in one? Or are the seperate HOB skimmers better?

08/07/2012, 12:26 PM	#13
greech Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 3,133	While I see the advatages of having a drilled tank (there are many) and my next tank will be drilled, I actually don't mind my HOB overflow and like the ability to remove it and clean the crud out. I can also place the overflow where I want which has also come in handy. IMO, avoid the HOBs that require aqualifter pumps (CPR, etc) and go for the U-tube style boxes (eshopps, life reef, etc.). +1 to avoiding refugium/skimmer combos. Much like electronics, buying combos typically results in reduced performance of at least one of the components. I went sumpless for almost 2 years and while I did ok, my tank significantly got better once I added a sump and a good submersible skimmer. I have a 40B with similar dimensions and I encourage you to move your circulation pumps up to the 750s from the 425s and possibly up to the 1050s (or maybe 1x750 and 1x1050). It will depend on what you want to keep and how much rock you load into the tank but the 425s are not going to cut it for most applications IMO. __________________ ~Graham Current Tank Info: Tank: 40 breeder; 20H sump w/SWC 120; Sicce 3.0 return; Vortech MP-10; Sundial T5, DIY Actinic LED (3W Cree). Livestock: Pair of Black & Whites; Midas Blenny; Firefish; Yasha/pistol; Black Leopard Wrasse; LPS and SPS

08/07/2012, 12:28 PM	#14
greech Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 3,133	Also, do youself a favor and leave all those chemicals off your list (at least for now). A good salt mix will contain all you need for that size tank for quite some time. __________________ ~Graham Current Tank Info: Tank: 40 breeder; 20H sump w/SWC 120; Sicce 3.0 return; Vortech MP-10; Sundial T5, DIY Actinic LED (3W Cree). Livestock: Pair of Black & Whites; Midas Blenny; Firefish; Yasha/pistol; Black Leopard Wrasse; LPS and SPS

08/07/2012, 12:30 PM	#15
College Fishman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 132	Pretty pumped to see your tank man

08/12/2012, 04:46 PM	#16
etymotic Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 11	OK, I've got the go ahead to drill the tank! Crossing my fingers that that I dont break it,or I'll be on the couch! Thanks for the info on the salt mix and other chemicals, greech. Ive read on Seachem's website that those were the recommended chemicals for reef tanks. Ive used Seachem's other products with great success on my two freshwater tanks, so i figured i'd stick with their guidelines. Obviously, I would not dose them if when monitoring my levels they were not called for. Here is my preliminary design for sump and refugium. Any advice on where or what kind of valves should be placed? the refugium would be on top and sump with return would be on the bottom. Since this is going on my second floor I've decided to disperse some of the weight by having the tank and sump/refugium on the side of one another. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks again, this is a wonderful site with loads of info and very knowledgeable members.

08/13/2012, 01:51 PM	#17
Reeferz412 Coral Hoarder Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,247	Lmk when you get off the ground. I am a sumpless 46 owner, i would like to compare haha. __________________ Alex FMAS Member Current Tank Info: 400 Gallons of frags... 30 gallon Deep Blue mixed reef ... 70 other tanks throughout south FL

08/13/2012, 05:19 PM	#18
Spyderturbo007 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: PA Posts: 2,564	I think 80lbs of sand is going to be a lot of sand for a 46g. How deep are you looking to go with the sand bed? I have about 40lbs in my 55 corner flow and it's about 3" or so in most places.

08/13/2012, 05:51 PM	#19
ReeferBill Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,906	80 lbs of sand is only a 5 gallon to 6 gallon bucket full , it will make a good Deep sand bed! Go for it. __________________ I never realized I had to be a Chemist and a Marine Biologist to maintain a Reef Aquarium!

08/14/2012, 07:31 AM	#20
etymotic Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 11	The sand from reef rocks comes in 40lb increments. I don't know if I will use all of it, but I will likely have about 3" in the DT and 5-6" in the Refugium. Now I'm freaking myself out about the total weight. The tank is going against an outside wall. So I figured it would be okay.

08/15/2012, 02:42 PM	#21
etymotic Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 11	anyone have any idea on valve placement for the plumbing? or know a good resource where i can read up on sump plumbing?