one corner missing polyps?

mikoz · 08/24/2012, 06:35 PM

Hi,

Is this normal? Looks like one side isn't doing so well, as it's completely missing polyps, I'm pretty sure it wasn't like this previously.

I know I need to check the water and take corrective action as needed and obviously you can't diagnose anything due to water quality from this limited information, I just wanted to know if this is expected. Nitrates are at the lowest measurable level, salt is 1.026... haven't yet checked anything else.

Tank is 100g, about 1.5 months old, skimmer is running great, only a few fish: damsel, 2x clown, cardinal all doing well (although I know there are very hearty fish).

thanks!

Mavrk · 08/24/2012, 06:37 PM

That is not normal. Something is wrong. How long have you had it?

mikoz · 08/24/2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavrk

That is not normal. Something is wrong. How long have you had it?

About 3 weeks... this just started the other day. Are the polyps dying in certain sections (I assume they all will unless I find out what's wrong)?

Mavrk · 08/24/2012, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoz

About 3 weeks... this just started the other day. Are the polyps dying in certain sections (I assume they all will unless I find out what's wrong)?

Yes, it is receeding. Sometimes they look bare, but can come back if treated correctly. Did you dip the coral or anything before putting it in the system? What is the temperature of the water? Like you said, we need to know the Alk, calcium, (and magnesium if you have it). Maybe start with a water change and go from there. Is it getting too much flow?

mikoz · 08/24/2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavrk

Yes, it is receeding. Sometimes they look bare, but can come back if treated correctly. Did you dip the coral or anything before putting it in the system? What is the temperature of the water? Like you said, we need to know the Alk, calcium, (and magnesium if you have it). Maybe start with a water change and go from there. Is it getting too much flow?

Great... first my hair, now my coral in my tank.

Temp is 76-78.
Salt is 1.026
KH is about 8-9 (just tested)
Nitrates at at lowest measureable gradient

Don't have Mg test kit, but, I added some Magnesium additive just now.

It's sheltered at the bottom of the tank away from the return valves and nestled between rocks, but, it's definitely moving back and forth a lot.

Can it "come back" or, much like my hair, once it's gone it's gone?

chrisfont23 · 08/24/2012, 08:06 PM

How much flow are you pounding that with... the usual 30x - 40x recommendation offered on most boards ?

hollister · 08/24/2012, 08:08 PM

Yea they like higher flow. Also see waste on him this could be iritating him.
Also have you fead him. Small piece of shrimp in his mouth . He looks hungry.

chrisfont23 · 08/24/2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollister

Yea they like higher flow. Also see waste on him this could be iritating him.
Also have you fead him. Small piece of shrimp in his mouth . He looks hungry.

That's not really true hollister. Most LPS like low to medium indirect and irregular flow.

bunzaroo · 08/24/2012, 08:23 PM

That is a plate coral. Should be on the sandbed w/ low flow. It should not be on the rockwork. They infate and move. It might be rubbing on the rocks causing the tissue to recede. Have you fed it?

chrisfont23 · 08/24/2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunzaroo

That is a plate coral. Should be on the sandbed w/ low flow. Have you fed it?

Oh - my bad. I didn't see his hand. Doh! Still, low to medium flow. Blasting LPS with light and with flow is not going to make them happy.

hollister · 08/24/2012, 08:34 PM

Sorry higher flow is medium flow. Yes have u fed him?

mikoz · 08/24/2012, 08:57 PM

Hi all

Sorry for any confusion, he's normally on the bottom of the tank not near any rock. I picked him up and held it in my hand only to take a picture.

The flow may be too high. I changed the tunze box to produce a much gentler wave and moved it to an area of the tank that's more sheltered and doesn't get as much light. The polyps popped open and it seems happier although obviously there's an issue with that corner receeding.

I did a 14G water change too (100G tank).

No, I've never fed it. I was told it would do alright on it's own. Can I just buy regular shrimp and deliver in small chunks with a syringe to the mouth?

Will that corner possibly come back over time if health is restored?

Frantz · 08/25/2012, 07:20 AM

Mysis shrimp are pretty cheap and better sized. I just pull out a small chunk each night and feed LPS and fish (and the crabs don't mind either). You can cut up regular supermarket shrimp but I just don't want to waste so much time (plus more waste with the shell)

Misled · 08/25/2012, 12:06 PM

To the OP. Just leave it where you have it now. If the flow was too high, that and it being on the sandbed probably damaged the tissue on the edge. It's probably going to keep receding, as you can see around the outside edges it's receding too, but don't remove it from the tank. I'll show you some pics tonight when I can get in my PB account, and give you a little story about what will most likely happen. You'll most likely wish this could happen with your hair.

Mussin · 08/25/2012, 12:42 PM

Looks like it was stung.. Was it close to anything else?

mikoz · 08/25/2012, 01:19 PM

Hi

It wasnt close to anything. Nothing really could have interfered with it.

I bought some raw shrimp chopped it up and placed it near the mouth. I was amazed at how it dealt with that. It did seem very hungry. I am hoping that's all it was and not a chemical problem in the tank.

Is it worth investing time in this or is it a lost cause? It sure seems like the shrimp made a difference in the immediate health but I'm not sure long term what will happen.

Thanks.

chrisfont23 · 08/25/2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoz

Hi

It wasnt close to anything. Nothing really could have interfered with it.

I bought some raw shrimp chopped it up and placed it near the mouth. I was amazed at how it dealt with that. It did seem very hungry. I am hoping that's all it was and not a chemical problem in the tank.

Is it worth investing time in this or is it a lost cause? It sure seems like the shrimp made a difference in the immediate health but I'm not sure long term what will happen.

Thanks.

That's probably a natural reaction, no?

mikoz · 08/25/2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfont23

That's probably a natural reaction, no?

Hi,

Yes, of course. But, if I'm going to spend money and time on it and it's very likely its going to die, I'm going to have a ticked off kid and wife.

Misled · 08/25/2012, 04:36 PM

So a little back story first. A reefer close to me had told me of the same thing happening to a plate coral in her tank. She just pushed the empty skeleton to the back of her tank and left it there. It was about 4 months later she took it out and looked at it and there were 40 to 50 baby plates on the skeleton. About 10 local reefers went to her place and we fragged it into a piece for each one of us. This was mine.

I did quite a bit of reading, (remember, this was over three years ago), and got a bit of conflicting information. Some said on the sand bed, some said on a rock. I tried both ways. The one on the sand bed did the same as the original after a couple years. The one below is the one I glued to a piece of rock. The rock let it hang over the sand bed, but the skeletal structure never touched the sand. From the info I read and my "little" experiment, I figure the sand irritated the tissue where the two met. Here's how high it sat off the sand.

Here it is fully opened.

It's about 5 inches across now. It also can't walk about the tank, since it's on a small rock. The part about flow is the same. If you feel the skeletal structure of the side that receded, you'll see it's very sharp. In one of the things I read back then, it said never let anything touch the edges of the plate because it could do this kind of damage.

Hope this helps you in the long run. Probably doesn't matter much now though.

mikoz · 09/10/2012, 10:24 AM

Hi,

After the shrimp feeding, the remaining sections plumped up quickly and looked healthy. But, that was shorted lived, each corner lost its polyps one by one and within 3 days it was all over.

I took the photo into the store, and there's one guy there that really really knows his stuff. He mentioned that plate corals often get infected by even pieces of sand. Once the infection happens, the only thing you can do is remove it for a bit of time and dose in a bath of special iodine then return it to the tank and repeat once or twice per day.
This seemed like too much work given that he also gave it a 10% survival rate even if I did that, and I was getting ready to travel. So, the rest is history.

The lesson here, for me at least, is that plate corals are very sensitive to external things, even sand. Keeping sand off a plate coral, is well, not something I want to worry at my existing interest level in the hobby. Not trying to be crass, but, everyone has thresholds.... not everyone who owns a car checks the oil level every fill-up for example.

Dexters Reef · 09/10/2012, 11:33 AM

Do you have any peppermint shrimp (or other type of shrimp)? I had a plate for a long time that started having a similar situation. Then I caught my peppermint shrimp pulling off pieces and eating it.

Normally these shrimp only eat decaying matter, IE the dead portions of my plate, but in this case, that action was preventing it from healing. I moved it to another tank and it recovered. One thing that also helped, is that in the grooves of the skeleton, you can not have any sand grains or debris, as this will prevent the healing. I had to use a pick to scrape the sand grains out, becuase they were wedged in good like in your pics. Those grooves need to be pretty much perfectly clean for it to heal. (If it never got damaged, this is normally something you dont have to worry about)

I dont think plates are hard to keep at all, and arent very tempramental. Yours might be too gone to save, but they are very resiliant and there have been numerous stories of "Dead" plate corals coming back to life several months later. Keep it in the tank, and who knows...maybe you'll find a baby in the future.

Best thing for general plate care is on the sandbed with low to medium flow (low enough where sand does not get blown on it) with mysis / small shrimp pieces fed every few days. In general, if it has a mouth, it wants to eat. If your sandbed location keeps getting sand blown on the coral, get a 2-3" piece of PVC and put it in your sandbed, and place the coral on top. This way its low in the tank, but raised a bit off the sandbed preventing sand from getting on it, and with nothing immediately below it, it wont get scraped up on rock. PVC should be 2-3" tall, and the diamater should be wide enough to hold the coral safely, but narrow enough where if the coral expanded it wouldnt touch it.

Dont give up! Try again down the line and I wish you success!

08/24/2012, 08:23 PM	#9
bunzaroo Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Miami,FL Posts: 617	That is a plate coral. Should be on the sandbed w/ low flow. It should not be on the rockwork. They infate and move. It might be rubbing on the rocks causing the tissue to recede. Have you fed it? __________________ Current Tank: Mized Reef 72 Bowfront, 105G (45X27X20) Reef Savvy Rimless in the works. Current Tank Info: 105 Gallon Reef Savvy Rimless, Mostly LPS/NPS and anemone's, 3 Bartlett Anthias, Royal Gramma, Green Spotted Mandarin, Yellow Tang, 2 Banghai Cardinals.

08/25/2012, 12:06 PM	#14
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	To the OP. Just leave it where you have it now. If the flow was too high, that and it being on the sandbed probably damaged the tissue on the edge. It's probably going to keep receding, as you can see around the outside edges it's receding too, but don't remove it from the tank. I'll show you some pics tonight when I can get in my PB account, and give you a little story about what will most likely happen. You'll most likely wish this could happen with your hair. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

08/25/2012, 04:36 PM	#19
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	So a little back story first. A reefer close to me had told me of the same thing happening to a plate coral in her tank. She just pushed the empty skeleton to the back of her tank and left it there. It was about 4 months later she took it out and looked at it and there were 40 to 50 baby plates on the skeleton. About 10 local reefers went to her place and we fragged it into a piece for each one of us. This was mine. I did quite a bit of reading, (remember, this was over three years ago), and got a bit of conflicting information. Some said on the sand bed, some said on a rock. I tried both ways. The one on the sand bed did the same as the original after a couple years. The one below is the one I glued to a piece of rock. The rock let it hang over the sand bed, but the skeletal structure never touched the sand. From the info I read and my "little" experiment, I figure the sand irritated the tissue where the two met. Here's how high it sat off the sand. Here it is fully opened. It's about 5 inches across now. It also can't walk about the tank, since it's on a small rock. The part about flow is the same. If you feel the skeletal structure of the side that receded, you'll see it's very sharp. In one of the things I read back then, it said never let anything touch the edges of the plate because it could do this kind of damage. Hope this helps you in the long run. Probably doesn't matter much now though. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

09/10/2012, 11:33 AM	#21
Dexters Reef Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 730	Do you have any peppermint shrimp (or other type of shrimp)? I had a plate for a long time that started having a similar situation. Then I caught my peppermint shrimp pulling off pieces and eating it. Normally these shrimp only eat decaying matter, IE the dead portions of my plate, but in this case, that action was preventing it from healing. I moved it to another tank and it recovered. One thing that also helped, is that in the grooves of the skeleton, you can not have any sand grains or debris, as this will prevent the healing. I had to use a pick to scrape the sand grains out, becuase they were wedged in good like in your pics. Those grooves need to be pretty much perfectly clean for it to heal. (If it never got damaged, this is normally something you dont have to worry about) I dont think plates are hard to keep at all, and arent very tempramental. Yours might be too gone to save, but they are very resiliant and there have been numerous stories of "Dead" plate corals coming back to life several months later. Keep it in the tank, and who knows...maybe you'll find a baby in the future. Best thing for general plate care is on the sandbed with low to medium flow (low enough where sand does not get blown on it) with mysis / small shrimp pieces fed every few days. In general, if it has a mouth, it wants to eat. If your sandbed location keeps getting sand blown on the coral, get a 2-3" piece of PVC and put it in your sandbed, and place the coral on top. This way its low in the tank, but raised a bit off the sandbed preventing sand from getting on it, and with nothing immediately below it, it wont get scraped up on rock. PVC should be 2-3" tall, and the diamater should be wide enough to hold the coral safely, but narrow enough where if the coral expanded it wouldnt touch it. Dont give up! Try again down the line and I wish you success! __________________ 75G RR, Trigger Systems Ruby 30S sump, 2x250 MH and 4x54W T5HO, Octopus Diablo XS160, 4" DSB, 2 x MP40wES, 85 lbs LR, 2 x BRS Dosing Pumps, Finnex 300w titanium heater, Surf2 Algae Turf Scrubber

08/24/2012, 06:37 PM	#2
Mavrk Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: California - South Bay Area Posts: 2,775	That is not normal. Something is wrong. How long have you had it?

08/24/2012, 08:06 PM	#6
chrisfont23 Reef Monster Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Long Island Posts: 1,343	How much flow are you pounding that with... the usual 30x - 40x recommendation offered on most boards ?

08/24/2012, 08:08 PM	#7
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Yea they like higher flow. Also see waste on him this could be iritating him. Also have you fead him. Small piece of shrimp in his mouth . He looks hungry.

08/24/2012, 08:34 PM	#11
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Sorry higher flow is medium flow. Yes have u fed him?

08/24/2012, 08:57 PM	#12
mikoz Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 93	Hi all Sorry for any confusion, he's normally on the bottom of the tank not near any rock. I picked him up and held it in my hand only to take a picture. The flow may be too high. I changed the tunze box to produce a much gentler wave and moved it to an area of the tank that's more sheltered and doesn't get as much light. The polyps popped open and it seems happier although obviously there's an issue with that corner receeding. I did a 14G water change too (100G tank). No, I've never fed it. I was told it would do alright on it's own. Can I just buy regular shrimp and deliver in small chunks with a syringe to the mouth? Will that corner possibly come back over time if health is restored?

08/25/2012, 07:20 AM	#13
Frantz Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Pennsylvanian Posts: 109	Mysis shrimp are pretty cheap and better sized. I just pull out a small chunk each night and feed LPS and fish (and the crabs don't mind either). You can cut up regular supermarket shrimp but I just don't want to waste so much time (plus more waste with the shell)

08/25/2012, 12:42 PM	#15
Mussin Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Lima,Ohio Posts: 728	Looks like it was stung.. Was it close to anything else?

08/25/2012, 01:19 PM	#16
mikoz Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 93	Hi It wasnt close to anything. Nothing really could have interfered with it. I bought some raw shrimp chopped it up and placed it near the mouth. I was amazed at how it dealt with that. It did seem very hungry. I am hoping that's all it was and not a chemical problem in the tank. Is it worth investing time in this or is it a lost cause? It sure seems like the shrimp made a difference in the immediate health but I'm not sure long term what will happen. Thanks.

09/10/2012, 10:24 AM	#20
mikoz Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 93	Hi, After the shrimp feeding, the remaining sections plumped up quickly and looked healthy. But, that was shorted lived, each corner lost its polyps one by one and within 3 days it was all over. I took the photo into the store, and there's one guy there that really really knows his stuff. He mentioned that plate corals often get infected by even pieces of sand. Once the infection happens, the only thing you can do is remove it for a bit of time and dose in a bath of special iodine then return it to the tank and repeat once or twice per day. This seemed like too much work given that he also gave it a 10% survival rate even if I did that, and I was getting ready to travel. So, the rest is history. The lesson here, for me at least, is that plate corals are very sensitive to external things, even sand. Keeping sand off a plate coral, is well, not something I want to worry at my existing interest level in the hobby. Not trying to be crass, but, everyone has thresholds.... not everyone who owns a car checks the oil level every fill-up for example.