Sump/Refugium Question

wackeeash · 07/25/2012, 02:36 PM

I'm in the process of planning and setting up a new tank. This is a 36gal bowfront aquarium, planning on a 20gal high tank for a sump and a seperate tank for the refugium. Due to the stand design, I've decided to split the sump and refugium to give more room for maintenance, make life a little easier for an old man, lol. I've got a couple questions that I haven't been able to find answers for, hoping someone can help me here. Currently the live rock is curing after a long time in storage, so I've got a few weeks.

1st Should I Tee off the drain line, let the dirty water feed the refugium or should I feed it clean water from the return pump?

2cd What kind of water flow should I aim for, I was thinking of a slower flow rate to allow water to have plenty of contact time with the algae for nitrate/phosphate removal etc, and maybe help with the breeding of pods. Yes/No/Maybe? and what does that translate into for GPH?

steve053 · 07/28/2012, 06:53 AM

If you can, t-off from the DT withn75% to the sump and 25% to the fuges. Here's a great resource on sumps and fuges:

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

Best of luck on your build.

doakota1 · 07/28/2012, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve053

If you can, t-off from the DT withn75% to the sump and 25% to the fuges. Here's a great resource on sumps and fuges:

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

Best of luck on your build.

Just received my 2nd sump from Melev

wackeeash · 07/28/2012, 08:20 AM

Steve053 - Thanks for the info and link, hadn't been to that site before and found some nice info on it.

I also got an email from IPSF on the subject, this is what they had to say:

"Feed the Fuge with the drain line of the display tank and let it rip. The Fuge can handle it, in fact the Fuge will prefer it. No need for that water to be squeaky clean.

You should set this up so the Fuge water turns over (is completely replaced) at least 3-4 times a day, but more is better and much more is much better. No way you would be overdoing it unless the turbulence rips the algae apart. That would be too much flow. The algae likes to be in constant motion but not so much as to physically damage it.

With a Fuge you really don't need a DSB because the macroalgae does a very good job of scrubbing nitrogen (phosphorous too) from the system. An aerobic sandbed of 1" or even 1/2" of course aragonite would function perfectly well as long as you have a thriving planted Fuge."

steve053 · 07/28/2012, 06:42 PM

From what I understand about refugiums you want the water from your DT to help grow cheato, aphids and other "good" stuff. You don't want so much flow that everything 'flows through' to the next chamber. Some people recommend adding a power head to increase circulation within the fuge. The added flow helps suspend the deitris and keep the fuge clean.

This is all theoretical for me as I'm still in the design and build stage of my first marine tank.

wackeeash · 07/29/2012, 08:52 AM

What my plan is going to be is to tee off of the DT's drain line with gate valves after the tee, put a little back pressure on the line going to the sump and using the gate valve to the refugium to control water flow through it. It might take a little adjustment to get the right flow, but I should be able to control it pretty well just as long as I don't restrict the flow out of the DT to much to cause a backup of water in the display tank.

steve053 · 07/29/2012, 11:26 AM

That's exactly what I'm planning in doing.

Best of luck in your build.

sail33 · 08/20/2012, 07:11 PM

I'm learning quite a bit here. I have a 72 bow front FOWLR (until it's stable then coral too) and have been advised that a 20 gl LONG will fit in the bowed stand ...tight but it will fit without removing the vertical center brace.
I had been planing to run left to right : the Display Tank water through a sock then into a refugium. Then a small separate chambers for the charcoal or phosban or what ever else might be placed in a mesh bag then additional chambers for skimmer and return pump.
After reading the above advice, I think that the Refugium should be first. The "T " from the DT could be gate valved into the refugium and split 25/75 with the sock. Then refugium water would join with sock filtered water and pass through the charcoal ( or whatever), through the skimmer and back to the DT.

This should provide adequate flow of " dirty" water to the refugium and keep all that lives there happy.

I'm wondering if anyone see a problem with that set up.

One thing I see is that most reports on refugiums suggest 1 to 2 inches of aerobic sand. Since most skimmers want 5 to 9 inches of water, how do I keep the refugium from drowning ? Should I make a platform raising the refugium material or do I end up with anaerobic sand ?
Inquiring minds want to know....

wackeeash · 08/20/2012, 07:37 PM

The refugium I have planned is actually a little taller then the sump, so there isn't a problem with it being flooded. As for the refugium return, I will be pipping it directly into the return pumps chamber, so that any pods etc can be taken to the DT for food.

sail33 · 08/20/2012, 07:43 PM

Thanks for that. All of the individual components of mine will be in that 20 gl long tank. There is no option for a separate or higher fuge. That's where my main problem is.

I like the idea of pumping the fuge return directly to the DT. Everybody like to eat. I think as long as they don't get caught up in the skimmer, the pods should make it back to the DT in my case. Of course I don't know that as fact yet but it seems to be likely.

sail33 · 09/14/2012, 09:39 PM

QUOTE " I have a 72 bow front FOWLR and have been advised that a 20 gl LONG will fit in the bowed stand ...tight but it will fit without removing the vertical center brace."

NOT TRUE !! I was misinformed . A 20 gallon long will fit under a 72 bow front but you MUST remove the center brace !!

I'm trying to find every thread where I posted that information. I'm sorry if anyone else took that statement as fact.

A simple job became a VERY tuff job. Some one told me that he had done it but an All Glass 72 bow front will not accept a 20 long without removing the brace.

And, apparently, accidentally siphoning 10 gallons of water onto the hard wood floor and oriental carpet.

I'm pretty sure my wife will be speaking to me again in the future.

If you want to know how I did it, I can save you some grief now that I've figured out how.

Again, sorry for offering bad info.

07/25/2012, 02:36 PM	#1
wackeeash Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 85	Sump/Refugium Question I'm in the process of planning and setting up a new tank. This is a 36gal bowfront aquarium, planning on a 20gal high tank for a sump and a seperate tank for the refugium. Due to the stand design, I've decided to split the sump and refugium to give more room for maintenance, make life a little easier for an old man, lol. I've got a couple questions that I haven't been able to find answers for, hoping someone can help me here. Currently the live rock is curing after a long time in storage, so I've got a few weeks. 1st Should I Tee off the drain line, let the dirty water feed the refugium or should I feed it clean water from the return pump? 2cd What kind of water flow should I aim for, I was thinking of a slower flow rate to allow water to have plenty of contact time with the algae for nitrate/phosphate removal etc, and maybe help with the breeding of pods. Yes/No/Maybe? and what does that translate into for GPH?

07/28/2012, 06:53 AM	#2
steve053 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Brookfield, WI Posts: 108	If you can, t-off from the DT withn75% to the sump and 25% to the fuges. Here's a great resource on sumps and fuges: http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html Best of luck on your build.

07/28/2012, 08:20 AM	#4
wackeeash Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 85	Steve053 - Thanks for the info and link, hadn't been to that site before and found some nice info on it. I also got an email from IPSF on the subject, this is what they had to say: "Feed the Fuge with the drain line of the display tank and let it rip. The Fuge can handle it, in fact the Fuge will prefer it. No need for that water to be squeaky clean. You should set this up so the Fuge water turns over (is completely replaced) at least 3-4 times a day, but more is better and much more is much better. No way you would be overdoing it unless the turbulence rips the algae apart. That would be too much flow. The algae likes to be in constant motion but not so much as to physically damage it. With a Fuge you really don't need a DSB because the macroalgae does a very good job of scrubbing nitrogen (phosphorous too) from the system. An aerobic sandbed of 1" or even 1/2" of course aragonite would function perfectly well as long as you have a thriving planted Fuge."

07/28/2012, 06:42 PM	#5
steve053 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Brookfield, WI Posts: 108	From what I understand about refugiums you want the water from your DT to help grow cheato, aphids and other "good" stuff. You don't want so much flow that everything 'flows through' to the next chamber. Some people recommend adding a power head to increase circulation within the fuge. The added flow helps suspend the deitris and keep the fuge clean. This is all theoretical for me as I'm still in the design and build stage of my first marine tank.

07/29/2012, 08:52 AM	#6
wackeeash Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 85	What my plan is going to be is to tee off of the DT's drain line with gate valves after the tee, put a little back pressure on the line going to the sump and using the gate valve to the refugium to control water flow through it. It might take a little adjustment to get the right flow, but I should be able to control it pretty well just as long as I don't restrict the flow out of the DT to much to cause a backup of water in the display tank.

07/29/2012, 11:26 AM	#7
steve053 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Brookfield, WI Posts: 108	That's exactly what I'm planning in doing. Best of luck in your build.

08/20/2012, 07:11 PM	#8
sail33 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Sunny St. Pete, FL Posts: 522	I'm learning quite a bit here. I have a 72 bow front FOWLR (until it's stable then coral too) and have been advised that a 20 gl LONG will fit in the bowed stand ...tight but it will fit without removing the vertical center brace. I had been planing to run left to right : the Display Tank water through a sock then into a refugium. Then a small separate chambers for the charcoal or phosban or what ever else might be placed in a mesh bag then additional chambers for skimmer and return pump. After reading the above advice, I think that the Refugium should be first. The "T " from the DT could be gate valved into the refugium and split 25/75 with the sock. Then refugium water would join with sock filtered water and pass through the charcoal ( or whatever), through the skimmer and back to the DT. This should provide adequate flow of " dirty" water to the refugium and keep all that lives there happy. I'm wondering if anyone see a problem with that set up. One thing I see is that most reports on refugiums suggest 1 to 2 inches of aerobic sand. Since most skimmers want 5 to 9 inches of water, how do I keep the refugium from drowning ? Should I make a platform raising the refugium material or do I end up with anaerobic sand ? Inquiring minds want to know....

08/20/2012, 07:37 PM	#9
wackeeash Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 85	The refugium I have planned is actually a little taller then the sump, so there isn't a problem with it being flooded. As for the refugium return, I will be pipping it directly into the return pumps chamber, so that any pods etc can be taken to the DT for food.

08/20/2012, 07:43 PM	#10
sail33 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Sunny St. Pete, FL Posts: 522	Thanks for that. All of the individual components of mine will be in that 20 gl long tank. There is no option for a separate or higher fuge. That's where my main problem is. I like the idea of pumping the fuge return directly to the DT. Everybody like to eat. I think as long as they don't get caught up in the skimmer, the pods should make it back to the DT in my case. Of course I don't know that as fact yet but it seems to be likely.

09/14/2012, 09:39 PM	#11
sail33 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Sunny St. Pete, FL Posts: 522	QUOTE " I have a 72 bow front FOWLR and have been advised that a 20 gl LONG will fit in the bowed stand ...tight but it will fit without removing the vertical center brace." NOT TRUE !! I was misinformed . A 20 gallon long will fit under a 72 bow front but you MUST remove the center brace !! I'm trying to find every thread where I posted that information. I'm sorry if anyone else took that statement as fact. A simple job became a VERY tuff job. Some one told me that he had done it but an All Glass 72 bow front will not accept a 20 long without removing the brace. And, apparently, accidentally siphoning 10 gallons of water onto the hard wood floor and oriental carpet. I'm pretty sure my wife will be speaking to me again in the future. If you want to know how I did it, I can save you some grief now that I've figured out how. Again, sorry for offering bad info.