Please Help SICK FISH

Khash · 09/15/2012, 12:59 PM

hi.

i have a white tail trigger fish that is scratching himself on rocks ( for 3 days now) and he is showing no signs of ich. my other fish are ok it is just him. i am not sure what it is any idea?????????????

the fish is mostly scratching its upper back and recently it started to scratch its gills. i think its flukes not ich.

i am really worried about him and not sure what it is. any idea with what medication i should use would be great. thank you so much

MrTuskfish · 09/15/2012, 02:04 PM

Scratching is a sign of ich as well as flukes and other parasites. Flukes are easily treated, even in a reef tank, with Prazi-Pro. If scratching is the only symptom, I'd treat for flukes and watch all fish closely for signs of parasites. If this is ich, or other protozoan parasite, you'll need a QT. BTW, I hope you're feeding more than brine shrimp. Two triggers in a 55 can really be asking for aggression too.

ajcanale · 09/15/2012, 02:46 PM

Triggers are extremely hardy. Keep him fed and I bet he will be fine. Also ditch the brine shrimp. Use mysids and krill, a little garlic goes a long way as well.

sporto0 · 09/15/2012, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajcanale

Triggers are extremely hardy. Keep him fed and I bet he will be fine. Also ditch the brine shrimp. Use mysids and krill, a little garlic goes a long way as well.

I'm sorry, I have to take exception to your suggestion of ditching the brine shrimp, perhaps you have read somewhere that they are not very nutritious or not a healthy fish food choice, this is in my experience a misnomer, I suppose that just about every fish in the ocean is wrong for eating brine shrimp? I have raised fish exclusively on seaweed & brine shrimp, live & frozen, I have not had a fish that lived that wouldn't eat brine shrimp, live brine is they key to getting finicky fish to eat in the home aquarium, please state your reasons with facts to back them up when making such statements that seem to contradict nature.

ajcanale · 09/15/2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sporto0

I'm sorry, I have to take exception to your suggestion of ditching the brine shrimp, perhaps you have read somewhere that they are not very nutritious or not a healthy fish food choice, this is in my experience a misnomer, I suppose that just about every fish in the ocean is wrong for eating brine shrimp? I have raised fish exclusively on seaweed & brine shrimp, live & frozen, I have not had a fish that lived that wouldn't eat brine shrimp, live brine is they key to getting finicky fish to eat in the home aquarium, please state your reasons with facts to back them up when making such statements that seem to contradict nature.

A little sandy are we?

First off "contradict nature" is a term that has little to no application when referring to marine aquaria. In the confinements of small boxes there are many things that "contradict nature." If we were to go along as everything is in the ocean would there be any need to quarantine? Any need to provide any nutrition at all? The fish will survive on their own right? NO, this isn't the case. What is the case is that aquariums are NOT nature. Adjustments and compensations have to be made.

Quote:

live brine is they key to getting finicky fish to eat?"

LOL, ANYTHING live is the key to getting finicky fish to eat.

There's a reason why 99/100 people recommend feeding mysis/mysids over brine. I'm not going to waste my time finding the "scientific" evidence that proves so.

Mavrk · 09/15/2012, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

Scratching is a sign of ich as well as flukes and other parasites. Flukes are easily treated, even in a reef tank, with Prazi-Pro. If scratching is the only symptom, I'd treat for flukes and watch all fish closely for signs of parasites. If this is ich, or other protozoan parasite, you'll need a QT. BTW, I hope you're feeding more than brine shrimp. Two triggers in a 55 can really be asking for aggression too.

This is really good advice.

As to the rest of the thread... Mmmm... gut-loaded brine shrimp. Baby brine shrimp are good too

Pool_shark · 09/16/2012, 11:23 AM

The fish could also be Ich infected in the gills only. Just something to keep in mind.

MrTuskfish · 09/16/2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pool_shark

The fish could also be Ich infected in the gills only. Just something to keep in mind.

Yes, that is very common.

sporto0 · 09/16/2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajcanale

A little sandy are we?

First off "contradict nature" is a term that has little to no application when referring to marine aquaria. In the confinements of small boxes there are many things that "contradict nature." If we were to go along as everything is in the ocean would there be any need to quarantine? Any need to provide any nutrition at all? The fish will survive on their own right? NO, this isn't the case. What is the case is that aquariums are NOT nature. Adjustments and compensations have to be made.

LOL, ANYTHING live is the key to getting finicky fish to eat.

There's a reason why 99/100 people recommend feeding mysis/mysids over brine. I'm not going to waste my time finding the "scientific" evidence that proves so.

Yeah, why bother to back your erroneous statement up with facts, that way you can just spout anything you want, no evidence or proof necessary, nice. & please pray tell where one can get live mysid shrimp readily, whereas live brine can be purchased almost anywhere.

ajcanale · 09/16/2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Yeah, why bother to back your erroneous statement up with facts, that way you can just spout anything you want, no evidence or proof necessary, nice. & please pray tell where one can get live mysid shrimp readily, whereas live brine can be purchased almost anywhere.

If you refer to the OP "Live" food is never mentioned. His signature mentions frozen cubes, hence my recommendation to find a more nutritional substitute... cyclops, mysids, krill. So your focus on "live brine" and "live mysid" baffles me, and really has no frame of reference in this thread whatsoever.
But, because you are so adamant about this topic and so persistent in insulting my recommendation and lack of "scientific proof" even though hundreds if not thousands of people before me have made exact or very similar recommendations, here you go.

Taken from: "Aquarium Invertebrates: Nutritional Value Of Live Foods For The Coral Reef Aquarium" By Rob Toonen, Ph.D.

"Virtually everyone is already familiar with brine shrimp, and it is a rare petshop that does not offer packets of frozen brine for sale. That does not, however, mean that it is one of the most nutritious foods available on the market to feed your saltwater tank inhabitants. Like the grocery bag analogy listed above, brine shrimp themselves are often not the most nutritious of food sources for marine fishes and invertebrates..."
"...As suggested by this list, the brine shrimp available to us in the hobby is not exactly the best quality stuff out there. Even among the aquaculture grade cysts there are enormous differences in the nutritional profile of the baby brine hatched from different locations."

Furthermore, in regards to frozen here is the guaranteed analysis of Hikari products:

Mysis:
Crude Protein 10.5% min
Crude Fat 1.0% min
Crude Fiber 2.0% max
Moisture 85.0% max

Krill:
Crude Protein 11.0% min
Crude Fat 1.2% min
Crude Fiber 5.0% max
Moisture 79.0% max

Bio-pure Brine:
Crude Protein 6.8% min.
Crude Fat 1.5% min.
Crude Fiber 1.2% max.
Moisture 86.0% max.

Spirulina Brine:
Crude Protein 6.9% min.
Crude Fat 1.6% min.
Crude Fiber 1.3% max.
Moisture 86.0% max.

There you go. So much for my "erroneous statement"

sporto0 · 09/21/2012, 07:31 PM

You just said, "ditch the brine shrimp",with no expalnation, there is no reason to stop feeding Brine, live or frozen, PERIOD. The fish love it, just because it isn't as scientifically nutritious as other foods is not a reason to stop using it & I seriously doubt 99 out of a 100 people feel that way, otherwise how could every pet shop in the world still carry Brine Shrimp, even DR'S Foster & Smith carry it & they're DOCTORS. I just get tired of hackneyed advice that gets spewn over & over again when it has been a hobby staple for as long as there has been salt water aquariums & now all of a sudden because a reef forum poster decides it isn't quite as healthy as say an apple or ceaser's salad, we should all just "ditch the brine", psssssh.

09/15/2012, 12:59 PM	#1
Khash Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: calgary, AB, Canada Posts: 36	Please Help SICK FISH hi. i have a white tail trigger fish that is scratching himself on rocks ( for 3 days now) and he is showing no signs of ich. my other fish are ok it is just him. i am not sure what it is any idea????????????? the fish is mostly scratching its upper back and recently it started to scratch its gills. i think its flukes not ich. i am really worried about him and not sure what it is. any idea with what medication i should use would be great. thank you so much __________________ 150 gal tank, 100lb LR, 100lb of LS, 10 mushrooms, no sump, lots of activated carbon filters enough for 200 gal, 3 triggers (3-5 inch), feed 2 times a day brine shrimp frozen cubes soaked in selcon Current Tank Info: 150 gal, 100lb LR, 100Lb LS. 3 inch Humu trig, 3 in White tail trig, 5 in black trig, 2 inch Banggai Cardinalfish, 3 in goat fish Last edited by Khash; 09/15/2012 at 01:47 PM. Reason: more info added

09/15/2012, 02:04 PM	#2
MrTuskfish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Wild Blue Yonder Posts: 8,887	Scratching is a sign of ich as well as flukes and other parasites. Flukes are easily treated, even in a reef tank, with Prazi-Pro. If scratching is the only symptom, I'd treat for flukes and watch all fish closely for signs of parasites. If this is ich, or other protozoan parasite, you'll need a QT. BTW, I hope you're feeding more than brine shrimp. Two triggers in a 55 can really be asking for aggression too. __________________ If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat. Steve Current Tank Info: 180, 2-240 FOWLRs, 240 reef

09/15/2012, 02:46 PM	#3
ajcanale Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Memphis 10 Posts: 1,098	Triggers are extremely hardy. Keep him fed and I bet he will be fine. Also ditch the brine shrimp. Use mysids and krill, a little garlic goes a long way as well. __________________ If the spirit moves ya, let me groove ya Current Tank Info: 150g Starphire Pensinula SPS

09/16/2012, 11:23 AM	#7
Pool_shark Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NW Chicago Posts: 147	The fish could also be Ich infected in the gills only. Just something to keep in mind. __________________ 90 gal LR reef w fish, LPS, Zoas, MH & T5 lighting and 30 gal fuge w macro and pods controlled by Apex.

09/21/2012, 07:31 PM	#11
sporto0 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa. Posts: 2,924	You just said, "ditch the brine shrimp",with no expalnation, there is no reason to stop feeding Brine, live or frozen, PERIOD. The fish love it, just because it isn't as scientifically nutritious as other foods is not a reason to stop using it & I seriously doubt 99 out of a 100 people feel that way, otherwise how could every pet shop in the world still carry Brine Shrimp, even DR'S Foster & Smith carry it & they're DOCTORS. I just get tired of hackneyed advice that gets spewn over & over again when it has been a hobby staple for as long as there has been salt water aquariums & now all of a sudden because a reef forum poster decides it isn't quite as healthy as say an apple or ceaser's salad, we should all just "ditch the brine", psssssh. Last edited by sporto0; 09/21/2012 at 07:38 PM.