UPS Battery backup Questions using 1 or 2 Marine batteries

twiddle · 10/21/2012, 09:02 PM

I have a APC Smart-UPS 700VA 120V Battery Backup. The person who had it before had two MArine grade batteries similar to car batteries hooked up to it.
Has anyone ever done this? And how long did they keep power going on your tank? I know it depends on what was hooked up but I am curious how this works.

Thanks

Ciscokid · 10/21/2012, 09:14 PM

I am sure it would work if you wire the batteries in series. Once a no-maintenance battery runs down a trickle charger, or UPS charger will not bring them back to full charge... Only marine batteries would work for APC UPS. It may be a trickle charge though.

FYI, car batteries give off hydrogen gas while being charged, might be an explosion issue, be careful

You can probably estimate your run time if you know your power draw

tkeracer619 · 10/22/2012, 01:52 PM

You would only series them if you needed 24v. Most UPS run at 24v dc.

The real problem is the durability of the UPS. Most of the time they are not designed for extended battery time and don't have cooling fans. Doing something like this to one without a cooling fan is sure to fry stuff. You can always add cooling. Not sure about your model but a lot of the bigger units do have fan cooling. I am talking about a fan on the actual power supply not just on the back of the unit.

Ciscokid · 10/22/2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

You would only series them if you needed 24v. Most UPS run at 24v dc.

The real problem is the durability of the UPS. Most of the time they are not designed for extended battery time and don't have cooling fans. Doing something like this to one without a cooling fan is sure to fry stuff. You can always add cooling. Not sure about your model but a lot of the bigger units do have fan cooling. I am talking about a fan on the actual power supply not just on the back of the unit.

Agreed!

Note... If you have more money than time. Just buy something that will handle your load and be done with it.

If you have more time than money, you will have to be patient and learn some basics before you start connecting things together. I would also scavenge the internet to see how many other people tried the same thing and learn from their mistakes. The best thing that can happen is that it will work until the UPS quits charging or malfunctions.

Messing with any electricity AC or DC can be hazardous to your health if you aren't careful.

It wouldn't hurt to even call APC or any other manufacturer and see how much info they will give you on using other battery types.

After all, they "should" have your safety in mind.

fmuakkassa · 10/22/2012, 05:57 PM

I have two marine (12v) batteries hooked to a TripLite power convertor. If the electricity goes off, they power my 180g tank for 10 hrs. I have the main pump (900 gpm) and an air pump only hooked to the backup system (bare essentials).

Ciscokid · 10/22/2012, 06:43 PM

Do you mean inverter? I assume you wired them in parallel? What did you use to charge them?

Jeff_NJ · 10/22/2012, 07:10 PM

My setup is similar to those discussed here.

I have (4) 100 Amp Hour Marine Deep Cycle batteries connected in PARALLEL to a Xantrex Pure Sine Wave Inverter.

I use a Deltran Battery Tender Plus to keep the batteries charged. Positive terminal on first battery, negative terminal on last battery.

The Xantrex (like a APC UPS and others) has an automatic transfer switch in the case of a line power outage.

400 amp hours provides quite the run time when considering a 120 volt / 125 watt return pump.

Ciscokid · 10/22/2012, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_NJ

My setup is similar to those discussed here.

I have (4) 100 Amp Hour Marine Deep Cycle batteries connected in PARALLEL to a Xantrex Pure Sine Wave Inverter.

I use a Deltran Battery Tender Plus to keep the batteries charged. Positive terminal on first battery, negative terminal on last battery.

The Xantrex (like a APC UPS and others) has an automatic transfer switch in the case of a line power outage.

400 amp hours provides quite the run time when considering a 120 volt / 125 watt return pump.

Very nice inverter! How often do you run them off grid power? I always run a test for at least an hour every other week. How long have you had the batteries in operation? Have you measured your runtime? What brand/model pump do you have?

Jeff_NJ · 10/22/2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

Very nice inverter! How often do you run them off grid power? I always run a test for at least an hour every other week. How long have you had the batteries in operation? Have you measured your runtime? What brand/model pump do you have?

I don't have a set schedule to run them off grid. On average I would say I trigger a fault once a month or so. Maybe 6 weeks. I will typically let the batteries work for an hour or two. I usually do this when I am tinkering with the tank. The tricky part was making this all work with my Apex. I had to dedicate an EB4 to the return pump. I do use the other three ports, but code it such that they are unused if line power is disrupted.

First set of batteries lasted over 5 years. They probably didn't need replaced, but I figured that is about the typical lifespan of a lead/acid battery. In theory, my max runtime should be 32 hours. 125 Watts at 120 volts = somewhere about 12.5 amps at 12 volts. 12.5 amps / 400 amp hours is 32 hours. I also use the bank to power one of my Tunze 6105's - I am not sure what the actual power consumption of that - so truly around ~30 hours.

I have never had to run for that long and I also have a dedicated 20-amp circuit to the tank with a manual transfer switch to a generator. I have done a 6 hour test and the batteries still had over 13 volts each.

The Deltran Battery Tender Plus is the best. I can't say enough about it. Also pure sine wave output is far superior to what is provided by most computer UPS systems.

My return pump is a Water Blaster HY-10000.

fmuakkassa · 10/22/2012, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciscokid

Do you mean inverter? I assume you wired them in parallel? What did you use to charge them?

Yes, I meant inverter. The batteris are wired in parallel. The invertor recharges the batteries automatically. The main aquarium pump is hooked to the inverter all the time. So when I have main power, it uses it and if the power is off, it uses the backup batteries. I also have a seperate battery charger that I can use to charge the batteries in a power outage. I take one battery and the charger to a freind's house who has power and charge the battery and then come back home and exchange batteries! I had to do so in the big Northeast black out years ago.

madean · 10/22/2012, 10:29 PM

This is part of the reason why I went with or going with vortech pumps on my current build. I toyed with the idea of having a back up UPS and the necessary equipment that goes along with it. Ecotech makes it too easy to run a battery backup with their pumps. If the power goes out the pump still runs, albeit at a much slower rate but the water is not stagnent. To me its a much cheaper and simpler way for a problem that rarely occurs for me. Now if I lived in an area that is prone to outages or prolonged outages than it would be a different story.
Marine grade lead acid batteries need to be kept in some what of a climate controlled environment. We use lead acid batteries in our substations for our control schemes. A battery charger is used to constantly keep the batteries at a float voltage. They get tested for voltage, specific gravity, general condition, heat at terminals, and sulfation. We don't test for hydrogen in the room because it does not seem to be of a concern. Its my understanding of the way hydrogen is formed is by the charging and discharging of the battery. If it's done improperly than hydrogen may form. I'm not saying it's safe or unsafe to have in your house. I would be worried about getting the acid cleaned up if something were to happen with the battery. Anyways we have 80 amp hour batteries, its to my knowledge that what that means is the battery is rated at a certain amperage for a specific time frame. In my dc theory class and what the vendor, of the battery we buy from told me, is that they do a 20 hour test. So an 80 AH battery will provide 4 amps of current for 20 hours. We hook 24 batteries in series for a 48 VDC system on our smaller substations. So under those guidelines a 400 AH rated battery should be good for 20 amps for 20 hours. It would be a good idea to check with the manufacture to see how they got that load rating though. Then you just hook the batteries up to get you desired voltage.
A couple of pointers with lead acid batteries though, try to get a battery with a clear housing so you can see the plates and the bottom of the battery. If improper charge discharge is taking place you can see the build up of stuff on the bottom of the battery. Basically its the chemical process in the battery not being completed, or sulfation. Also its easier to see if the water level is being depleted or not. If you have to replace the water in the cells, only use deionized water. Rodi water should work or just get a bug of di water from the grocery store. Putting regular water in there can screw with the specific gravity and purity of the acid and can affect the batteries performance and lifespan. At least that's what I have been told. Heat is a huge issue with batteries. Vendors have been harping about how heat decreases the lifespan of a battery dramatically. The heater the ambiant temperature gets the shorter the lifespan of a battery is. Conversly a cold environment is not good either. But heat is more detrimental. Ideally batteries should be kept around 75 degrees F. I am not sure if I am missing anything off the top of my head right now. I'm sure I will remember something else after I post this.
Well good luck with your build. Post pics of what you do and do explain the process. Hopefully it will help someone else. Oh and be careful as to not short the battery out. People don't realize how dangerous batteries can be especially one that has the capacity that your dealing with.

10/21/2012, 09:02 PM	#1
twiddle Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Boston Area Posts: 167	UPS Battery backup Questions using 1 or 2 Marine batteries I have a APC Smart-UPS 700VA 120V Battery Backup. The person who had it before had two MArine grade batteries similar to car batteries hooked up to it. Has anyone ever done this? And how long did they keep power going on your tank? I know it depends on what was hooked up but I am curious how this works. Thanks __________________ 180 Gallon Mixed reef. 3 MH 250 Radiums and 4T5s. Livestock - 4 Tangs, 5 Anthias, Purple Jaw Fish, Flame Angel, Clown and Wrasses

10/21/2012, 09:14 PM	#2
Ciscokid Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 270	I am sure it would work if you wire the batteries in series. Once a no-maintenance battery runs down a trickle charger, or UPS charger will not bring them back to full charge... Only marine batteries would work for APC UPS. It may be a trickle charge though. FYI, car batteries give off hydrogen gas while being charged, might be an explosion issue, be careful You can probably estimate your run time if you know your power draw Last edited by Ciscokid; 10/21/2012 at 09:20 PM.

10/22/2012, 01:52 PM	#3
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	You would only series them if you needed 24v. Most UPS run at 24v dc. The real problem is the durability of the UPS. Most of the time they are not designed for extended battery time and don't have cooling fans. Doing something like this to one without a cooling fan is sure to fry stuff. You can always add cooling. Not sure about your model but a lot of the bigger units do have fan cooling. I am talking about a fan on the actual power supply not just on the back of the unit. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

10/22/2012, 07:10 PM	#7
Jeff_NJ Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 139	My setup is similar to those discussed here. I have (4) 100 Amp Hour Marine Deep Cycle batteries connected in PARALLEL to a Xantrex Pure Sine Wave Inverter. I use a Deltran Battery Tender Plus to keep the batteries charged. Positive terminal on first battery, negative terminal on last battery. The Xantrex (like a APC UPS and others) has an automatic transfer switch in the case of a line power outage. 400 amp hours provides quite the run time when considering a 120 volt / 125 watt return pump. __________________ \| 150G 48x24x30 \| 8 Bulb T5 LET Retrofit with 24 RB LEDs \| (2) Tunze 6105 \| SRO-2000XP Skimmer \| Eheim 1262 Return \| Carbon & GFO reactors \| Geo Kalk Stirrer \| All controlled by APEX - Upgraded tank running since 11/2012!

10/22/2012, 05:57 PM	#5
fmuakkassa Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 404	I have two marine (12v) batteries hooked to a TripLite power convertor. If the electricity goes off, they power my 180g tank for 10 hrs. I have the main pump (900 gpm) and an air pump only hooked to the backup system (bare essentials).

10/22/2012, 06:43 PM	#6
Ciscokid Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 270	Do you mean inverter? I assume you wired them in parallel? What did you use to charge them?

10/22/2012, 10:29 PM	#11
madean Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 994	This is part of the reason why I went with or going with vortech pumps on my current build. I toyed with the idea of having a back up UPS and the necessary equipment that goes along with it. Ecotech makes it too easy to run a battery backup with their pumps. If the power goes out the pump still runs, albeit at a much slower rate but the water is not stagnent. To me its a much cheaper and simpler way for a problem that rarely occurs for me. Now if I lived in an area that is prone to outages or prolonged outages than it would be a different story. Marine grade lead acid batteries need to be kept in some what of a climate controlled environment. We use lead acid batteries in our substations for our control schemes. A battery charger is used to constantly keep the batteries at a float voltage. They get tested for voltage, specific gravity, general condition, heat at terminals, and sulfation. We don't test for hydrogen in the room because it does not seem to be of a concern. Its my understanding of the way hydrogen is formed is by the charging and discharging of the battery. If it's done improperly than hydrogen may form. I'm not saying it's safe or unsafe to have in your house. I would be worried about getting the acid cleaned up if something were to happen with the battery. Anyways we have 80 amp hour batteries, its to my knowledge that what that means is the battery is rated at a certain amperage for a specific time frame. In my dc theory class and what the vendor, of the battery we buy from told me, is that they do a 20 hour test. So an 80 AH battery will provide 4 amps of current for 20 hours. We hook 24 batteries in series for a 48 VDC system on our smaller substations. So under those guidelines a 400 AH rated battery should be good for 20 amps for 20 hours. It would be a good idea to check with the manufacture to see how they got that load rating though. Then you just hook the batteries up to get you desired voltage. A couple of pointers with lead acid batteries though, try to get a battery with a clear housing so you can see the plates and the bottom of the battery. If improper charge discharge is taking place you can see the build up of stuff on the bottom of the battery. Basically its the chemical process in the battery not being completed, or sulfation. Also its easier to see if the water level is being depleted or not. If you have to replace the water in the cells, only use deionized water. Rodi water should work or just get a bug of di water from the grocery store. Putting regular water in there can screw with the specific gravity and purity of the acid and can affect the batteries performance and lifespan. At least that's what I have been told. Heat is a huge issue with batteries. Vendors have been harping about how heat decreases the lifespan of a battery dramatically. The heater the ambiant temperature gets the shorter the lifespan of a battery is. Conversly a cold environment is not good either. But heat is more detrimental. Ideally batteries should be kept around 75 degrees F. I am not sure if I am missing anything off the top of my head right now. I'm sure I will remember something else after I post this. Well good luck with your build. Post pics of what you do and do explain the process. Hopefully it will help someone else. Oh and be careful as to not short the battery out. People don't realize how dangerous batteries can be especially one that has the capacity that your dealing with.