My Xenia Dead Due to Ecoxotic LED's?

[mikeyVR4]

Hey Everyone,

I am new to the hobby and just bought my first SPS last friday. Unfortunately, it got very skinny and is now shrinking. I am pretty sure it will be gone by the morning. Can someone please help me out? I just had my water tested again and everything is fine.

I just had a clown get a disease and now I am treating it back to normal at the local pet shop for free. Hopefully it survives. With my SPS disappearing and my clown fish getting sick, I am pretty upset how its going so far.

I am getting some algae from the initial load which isnt throwing anything off water wise...just dont know why things are dying. I currently have a blue tang and another clown which are doing fine.

Tank has been established for over 3.5 weeks now.

My tank:

77lbs live rock / treated water already from the local pet shop
OOlight sand
R/O water
75G tank / 20G sump.
Reef Octopus 150
Sicce 2.0 pump

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

Hi mikey, from what im reading your tank is still fairly new and it takes time and patience to get really established! It would help if you could be more specific on water quality as far as numbers/readings! and the type of lighting you have? Water chemistry/lighting...etc. Hope this helps!

[Michigan Mike]

3.5 weeks...
Tank isn't mature yet.
How "live" is your rock?

I think you need to slow down, and get a QT tank set up.

[mikeyVR4]

Originally Posted by Chaotic Reefer4u

Hi mikey, from what im reading your tank is still fairly new and it takes time and patience to get really established! It would help if you could be more specific on water quality as far as numbers/readings! and the type of lighting you have? Water chemistry/lighting...etc. Hope this helps!

Hey Chaotic,

I will have to get the exact readings. My local fish store does the testing and they say its pretty good. I know I need to learn the testings and numbers so I can start making sense of fine-tuning my tank.

Yeah I am definitely slowing down now. Not as easy as I thought.

[mikeyVR4]

Originally Posted by Michigan Mike

3.5 weeks...
Tank isn't mature yet.
How "live" is your rock?

I think you need to slow down, and get a QT tank set up.

Hey Mike,

Yeah I agree and my wife and I are definitely not buying anything new until the tank sets itself. The live rock is pretty good and has been sitting at the local pet shops tank for awhile. They have it running through their systems. I bought their water, their live rock, and everything seemed to be fine at first. My reef octopus hasnt been pulling anything out of the water and everything seemed to be okay.

After the clown getting diseased and now my Xenia disappearing, we are definitely taking it slowly now.

I am just feeling quite deflated right now. I know PATIENCE is needed but I thought I was doing everything by the book. I just feel like someone kicked me in the balls because I hate seeing my tank, that we have been working hard on for 6 months, fail.

[harleychic]

mikeyVR4 don't get discouraged already. You will hear people on this forum say over and over again, "Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank", because it's true. Research and read about everything, use the "search" engine on here before you buy anything else, but mostly, just keep at it, there are few hobbies as rewarding as this one, once you get the hang of it!

[Ron Reefman]

Mikey,

You are right to slow down and that this hobby isn't as easy as it looks. Do a lot more reading and ask as many questions as you need to. That's how you will lean and understand what you need to do. And one of the very first things you need to learn is to take everything the people at your LFS (Local Fish Store) as maybe, possibly being true. They aren't in the business of helping you set up a nice tank, they are in the business of selling 'stuff' to lots and lots of people. Don't ask them questions and trust the answers. Either go in knowing the answer and test their skill and honesty, or ask them your question and then go home and do the research yourself. We're here to help and Google can get you tons of info if you try.

[chrisfont23]

I recall after installing my Ecoxotic LEDs the piercing onslaught of light. I too fried a few corals. I have since gotten dimmers and currently run mine in abt 75pct output. Hope that helps.

[mikeyVR4]

Thanks everyone! I feel a lot better this morning. Last night I was just overwhelmed that my tank was failing but I know its just a learning curve I need to get used to. I just hate failing and seeing things die when I thought I learned most of the basics.

I have been reading a ton from a book I got a Barnes and Noble and have been researching this site a lot. So do you guys think my tank just pretty much needs to set itself? I am a tad worried about my other fish getting sick. I also read Xenia are a hit or miss so maybe its something just natural where the SPS didn't like my tank.

[mikeyVR4]

Originally Posted by chrisfont23

I recall after installing my Ecoxotic LEDs the piercing onslaught of light. I too fried a few corals. I have since gotten dimmers and currently run mine in abt 75pct output. Hope that helps.

Hey Chris,

Thanks for your response. I have the Ecoxotic Panorama LED's and I thought everything was going perfectly at first. I do have a dimmer for my white and blue LED's but I try not to put too much light into my tank because I do not want to feed the initial algae bloom I have gotten at first.

I noticed you also have a Blue Tang. How many times a day do you feed it? I have some frozen San Francisco Sally's Emerald Entree fish food and I add a few drops of Marine Garlic Power to the food. I used to feed the fish morning and night but now I am just feeding them at nights.

Thanks!

[zoafarm]

+1 about LFS. There are many great LFSs; however, nobody will do it better than you (the one that's got the big bucks invested). Go buy testing supplies...you won't regret. Xenias are pretty sensitive to salinity and Alkalinity. Do you know what your salinity is? It should be around 1.025. I agree with Chaotic Reefer4u...really need to know more to help you. Hang in there...it can be very rewarding.

[RyanSweatt2004]

Definitely Research a lot on here!!! I've been in this hobby for six years already and I still don't stop reading and learning. I'm surprised your local fish store would tell you your tank is established after only 3.5 weeks, let alone sell you any livestock before your tank was at leat 4-6 weeks old. I have learned the hard way that you can almost never trust your LFS. Reason being is that any place selling livestock as a business is almost always going to be about the sale first and the customer second. Trust your fellow reef hobbyists and you should start learning and growing in no time. Xenia are a type of soft corals by the way, not SPS. Xenia can be very sensitive in some tanks and grow like weeds in other tanks. Again, Research as much as possible. Best of luck.

Oh and like "Zoafarm" said above, definitely start by getting yourself some good test kits. Salifert is a great brand to use. Test kits can be your best friend when something is going wrong with your tank.

[chrisfont23]

Originally Posted by mikeyVR4

Hey Chris,

Thanks for your response. I have the Ecoxotic Panorama LED's and I thought everything was going perfectly at first. I do have a dimmer for my white and blue LED's but I try not to put too much light into my tank because I do not want to feed the initial algae bloom.

The lights are brutally piercing without a dimmer. I learned the hard way when a few of my corals simply died. Glad you have dimmers.

I noticed you also have a Blue Tang. How many times a day do you feed it? I have some frozen San Francisco Sally's Emerald Entree fish food and I add a few drops of Marine Garlic Power to the food. I used to feed the fish morning and night but now I am just feeding them at nights.

Thanks!

The blue tang eats nori and a mix of bloodworms/mysis/formula1/2 every other day. Healthy fish do not have to eat every day. I am confident of that.

[blackstrat]

We started in this amazing hobby 8 months ago and being an impatient person by nature, waiting until my tank fully cycled to add fish was very difficult.
In fact, at the time, had I known how long I had to wait, I might have passed on the purchase of my aquarium altogether.
But I am glad we persevered.
I am having an absolute blast with this hobby.
I have always loved Biology, but through the years I have pretty much forgot about it.
Creating a tiny ocean in our living room is gratifying beyond description.
So, as all the responses have indicated, patience at the outset, will reap you with many
positive rewards in the future.

Good Reefing to you

[Anemone]

Xenia is not considered a SPS coral. "SPS" is generally reserved for Small Polyped Scleractinian or Small Polyped Stony corals - ie, corals with skeletons.

FWIW, Xenia can be difficult corals to get started in many tanks. Most don't ship well and they tend to like "dirty" tanks. That being said, be happy that your Xenia didn't make it. Once Xenia finds the "right" conditions, it's virtually impossible to tank. Think of planting a dandelion in your lawn, then not using any any weed killer. Soon you have a lawn full of dandelions, often crowding out other things you want to grow (like the grass). If you have a good imagination, you now have a picture of putting Xenia in your tank.

Kevin

[mikeyVR4]

Wow so much good replies here. Thank you! Can anyone give me some hints on whats the most reliable test kits out there? I will continue on with my readings today.

My Xenia still looks skinny today but taller than yesterday. Maybe its just a weird pattern its going through.

[mikeyVR4]

Originally Posted by zoafarm

+1 about LFS. There are many great LFSs; however, nobody will do it better than you (the one that's got the big bucks invested). Go buy testing supplies...you won't regret. Xenias are pretty sensitive to salinity and Alkalinity. Do you know what your salinity is? It should be around 1.025. I agree with Chaotic Reefer4u...really need to know more to help you. Hang in there...it can be very rewarding.

Hey zoafarm!

Yeah I am definitely interested in buying my own kit. I know my LFS uses a refractor to test the water and then some sort of chemical kit to test for other stuff. Do you have any recommendations on which to go with? Yeah I am definitely going to research a lot about this.

As for my salinity, my Hydrometer has been reading 1.023 for some time now. We tested the hydrometer against the Refractor readings to ensure it was measuring okay.

[Curtis.H]

To start out you're going to want:
refractometer
ammonia (NH4)
nitrate (NO3)
nitrite (NO2)
PH

I like the Elos kits for NH4, NO2 and NO3. I bought a digital PH meter because it's easy and quick to use.

Once your tank becomes established and you want to start keeping corals (you should wait 6 months or so before you try to keep corals because they require stable water parameters) you'll need to test for:
alkalinity
calcium
magnesium

I started off with a Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro Multi test kit. I just recently bought Hanna Checkers for alk and cal and wish I had done that from the start. If you ever start dosing 2 part (alk, cal) you'll need to test daily while you're dialing in your dosage amount and the Hanna Checkers would have made that so much easier.

Go slow and good luck.

[chrisfont23]

Originally Posted by mikeyVR4

Hey zoafarm!

Yeah I am definitely interested in buying my own kit. I know my LFS uses a refractor to test the water and then some sort of chemical kit to test for other stuff. Do you have any recommendations on which to go with? Yeah I am definitely going to research a lot about this.

As for my salinity, my Hydrometer has been reading 1.023 for some time now. We tested the hydrometer against the Refractor readings to ensure it was measuring okay.

I think your salinity is low. Should be around 1.025 IMO

[mikeyVR4]

Update:

My Xenia is still alive but just looks to be getting used to the LED lighting. My diseased clown fish ended up dying but my other clown and Blue Tang are doing excellent. I have slowed down until my tank definitely sets itself. I just replaced my sump sock and cleaned out my Reef Octopus 150 as usual. My tank is getting more of an algae bloom and some is now on the sand.

I bought a test kit which was from my LFS. The test kit is from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (API) and is the Saltwater Master Test Kit. It measures pH, Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate levels.

I will post up some numbers tonight and would appreciate if you guys can assist with my readings.

Thanks.

[Kyle918]

Originally Posted by mikeyVR4

Update:

My Xenia is still alive but just looks to be getting used to the LED lighting. My diseased clown fish ended up dying but my other clown and Blue Tang are doing excellent. I have slowed down until my tank definitely sets itself. I just replaced my sump sock and cleaned out my Reef Octopus 150 as usual. My tank is getting more of an algae bloom and some is now on the sand.

I bought a test kit which was from my LFS. The test kit is from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (API) and is the Saltwater Master Test Kit. It measures pH, Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate levels.

I will post up some numbers tonight and would appreciate if you guys can assist with my readings.

Thanks.

Sorry to hear of the troubles your having. Don't let it discourage you though. In the long run itll all work out and you will appreciate your efforts that much more once you overcome the hurdle you have now which really isn't too big of one.

Don't take any of this the wrong way, but everything seems to be acting for the most part normally under the given conditions. You have a new tank, I wouldn't even say fairly... 3.5 weeks is in it's infancy! A fish, let alone corals are most likely not going to survive in in infant tank.

With that said, you have lost one fish, but you still have two and a xenia that seems to be perking up. Listen to the advice of others and test your water. Stability in your water parameters is key! This only happens with time though. A tank 8 months old will have a much more stable water levels than one at 3.5 weeks.

Also, algae blooms (yes, I did mean to make it plural) are common and expected in a new tank any time in the first year.

Where are you getting your water from? Is it RO/DI water? Are you testing the water before you put it into your tank?? Regardless of where your water is coming from, it should be tested prior to adding it to your tank. You could be introducing phosphates and nitrates into your system through top off water. Also, your lights will feed the algae. This is why most will say lights are not needed during the cycling of the tank as it will only feed algae.

Also, your rocks can leach phophate which is typical of new live rock. It can take months for the phophate levels leaching from the rocks to fall. Utilizing a refugium with some chaeto can help with excess nutrients in the water.

Rule of thumb though, research and find the source of the problem, then find a solution to prevent or eliminate that source.

Stick with it man and happy reefing!! I will soon with right behind you with my first SW setup I've been reading for months but I think after about 7 months its about time to just start...

[mikeyVR4]

Originally Posted by Kyle918

Sorry to hear of the troubles your having. Don't let it discourage you though. In the long run itll all work out and you will appreciate your efforts that much more once you overcome the hurdle you have now which really isn't too big of one.

Don't take any of this the wrong way, but everything seems to be acting for the most part normally under the given conditions. You have a new tank, I wouldn't even say fairly... 3.5 weeks is in it's infancy! A fish, let alone corals are most likely not going to survive in in infant tank.

With that said, you have lost one fish, but you still have two and a xenia that seems to be perking up. Listen to the advice of others and test your water. Stability in your water parameters is key! This only happens with time though. A tank 8 months old will have a much more stable water levels than one at 3.5 weeks.

Also, algae blooms (yes, I did mean to make it plural) are common and expected in a new tank any time in the first year.

Where are you getting your water from? Is it RO/DI water? Are you testing the water before you put it into your tank?? Regardless of where your water is coming from, it should be tested prior to adding it to your tank. You could be introducing phosphates and nitrates into your system through top off water. Also, your lights will feed the algae. This is why most will say lights are not needed during the cycling of the tank as it will only feed algae.

Also, your rocks can leach phophate which is typical of new live rock. It can take months for the phophate levels leaching from the rocks to fall. Utilizing a refugium with some chaeto can help with excess nutrients in the water.

Rule of thumb though, research and find the source of the problem, then find a solution to prevent or eliminate that source.

Stick with it man and happy reefing!! I will soon with right behind you with my first SW setup I've been reading for months but I think after about 7 months its about time to just start...

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

To answer your questions, I am getting RO/DI water from my local fish store where I purchased my salt water from as well along with the live rocks. We have been testing the water weekly at the local fish store but all I was told was "its good". We bought our first kit yesterday so we will be taking the readings tonight.

The live rock and water were in a running system which was cleaned normally by the LFS. I am definitely going to get you guys some numbers. I am not too worried about the algae blooms.

As for why I added fish and coral already, well my LFS pretty much said I would be safe because I bought 77lbs of live rock and Oolight sand, and their salt water. I am not adding anything more until I get a balance.

[mikeyVR4]

Water Results:

pH 8.2
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

I have 15 gallons of salt water for the water change when I do my change. Please let me know how my numbers are.

Thanks guys!

Mike

[RyanSweatt2004]

Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't the ammonia be at 0.0 or at least close to zero? That could be the source of your problems

[mikeyVR4]

Originally Posted by RyanSweatt2004

Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't the ammonia be at 0.0 or at least close to zero? That could be the source of your problems

Yes. An established tank should be at zero but I was told that I will have a spike since I have a new tank setup. Can anyone please give me some insight on my water results?