A little guidance please.

ANC · 11/30/2012, 05:38 PM

I dont think I'm necessarily a newb but I definitely do not have a ton of experience on the saltwater side of things. I kept a small 20 gallon while in college with just a few fish and some live rock and it was fairly successful. I ended up tearing it down and selling off most of what I had when I moved from school and have wanted to get back into things for a while.

About 3 months ago my 10 year old Oscar kicked the bucket sadly but it also left open my 75 gallon tank. So I purchased about 40 lbs of live rock, some sand (from lowes that I now know was a mistake), and skimmer. I kept my vortech and koralia pumps from the previous take and have them setup on this one now. The tank has been up and running without any inhabitants for the last 3 months. I had some thing come up financially that need to be taken care of first and decided to sideline the tank for a little while. I had been "ghost" feeding the take for about a month before I stopped with every thing and of course the cycle continued and not i have some brown diatoms blooming on the sand and glass.

Now that i'm getting back into things I was wondering on what the best way to go about changing out the sand with out causing to much of a problem. I know I need some more rock but im also a minimalist when it comes to aquascaping the rock and cant stand the look of over cluttered rock tanks. I am also using a hang on the back filter as a kind of little fuge for now so it has about a pound of rock in there too and seems to help. My apologies for the long write-up here but any suggestions on moving forward would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for all the help.

sponger0 · 11/30/2012, 05:53 PM

Remove the sand. Put new sand in. Put rock back in. And change 50% of the water. Test water to see if any ammonia spikes or cycle happens. If nothing happens withing 2-3 weeks, get a CUC and see if they survive.

Pieface · 11/30/2012, 09:44 PM

I would put the rock in first then the sand. You don't want the rock on top of the sand, it will shift or move and could cause a bigger problem for you.
Not only that but it is easier to keep the sand bed clean.

All6Fish · 12/01/2012, 08:29 AM

Im not sure about the whole rock before the sand trick as we added sand then rock and were fine. Anyway, how much rock do you plan on adding?

Cymonous · 12/01/2012, 08:53 AM

I agree on removing the sand. Just note, it will create a really bad sand storm and your water will be super cloudy when you start to remove it. I would use a big cup to scoop out what you can, but don't pour back in any water you pick up.

If you go with dry sand, do a heavy rinsing first.

EllieSuz · 12/01/2012, 09:04 AM

The best way to remove the sand is to siphon it into a bucket, using a vinyl hose. If that seems like too large a loss of perfectly good saltwater, you can let the sand settle and put the water back in the tank. I removed my entire sand bed this way (it was crushed coral) taking out whatever I could with each weekly water change. It took a while, but was very effective. Once you acquire new sand, rinse it well until the water runs clear and soak it in freshly made saltwater for a while. Next, get one of those long necked funnels like the ones used for oil changes. There is a size of vinyl hose that fits the end of that funnel and you can cut it to reach the bottom of the tank. Spoon damp sand into the funnel and guide it wherever you want. I realize you don't have livestock in there yet, but avoiding clouding the water anyway can't be a bad thing. This method causes hardly any cloudy water.

All6Fish · 12/01/2012, 09:16 AM

If you go to a home depot or a lowes you can but plastic tubing VERY CHEAP. It will be the same quaility as you will get at your LFS that comes in a kit for removing water for changes but at 1/3 the cost.

ANC · 12/01/2012, 09:39 AM

Thanks for all of the help. Losing the water is my biggest concern just because waiting for the RO/DI machine to make up enough water is just a PIA. I'm going to the stores today i think and getting this sand changed out this evening so I can move along with a CUC next weekend possibly.

After I change out the sand should I go ahead and toss another piece of shrimp into the tank and wait a week or so just to cycle it again?

Cymonous · 12/01/2012, 09:49 AM

Why start another cycle? Unless you are taking out 90% or more of the water, I wouldn't.

ANC · 12/01/2012, 10:14 AM

See now I've always been under the impression that the bacteria that we so patiently grow during the cycling period are not in the water column but in the substrate i.e. the rock and sand. Am I wrong?

sponger0 · 12/01/2012, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANC

See now I've always been under the impression that the bacteria that we so patiently grow during the cycling period are not in the water column but in the substrate i.e. the rock and sand. Am I wrong?

That is correct. Bacteria is on rock and sand...not in the water.

ANC · 12/01/2012, 04:49 PM

Ok so by a show of hands who laughed when I said I was going to switch out all the sand today because I sure am laughing now...I went ahead and just emptied the tank. It seemed like te more I tried to do it manually the longer and harder it was because of the cloudy water. Here is my next question, I have egg crate at the bottom of the tank to prevent the bottom pane from cracking in the event of a rock slide. How important is it to get evey little cube cleaned out or am I just supposed to get wht I can and cover it with te new sand.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I wish I would have seen the info on the sand a couple of months ago but oh well.

EllieSuz · 12/01/2012, 05:16 PM

Putting egg crate on the bottom of a tank was an experiment gone wrong. It creates pocket of detritus that can't be removed. I recommend you put your rock directly on the glass and put your sand around the rock and call it a day.

Pieface · 12/01/2012, 10:17 PM

+1 on the rock on the bottom. Your sand bed needs to have a small amount of circulation about it. if the rock is on the sand it becomes much like the area behind your frig.

ANC · 12/02/2012, 05:23 PM

Went ahead and started all over again. Pull the egg crate off the bottom and cleaned out all the sand. Waiting on the RO/DI filters to make up the water now. I'll keep everyone updated over the next couple of days. Thanks for all the help.

11/30/2012, 05:38 PM	#1
ANC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Wintersville, OH Posts: 183	A little guidance please. I dont think I'm necessarily a newb but I definitely do not have a ton of experience on the saltwater side of things. I kept a small 20 gallon while in college with just a few fish and some live rock and it was fairly successful. I ended up tearing it down and selling off most of what I had when I moved from school and have wanted to get back into things for a while. About 3 months ago my 10 year old Oscar kicked the bucket sadly but it also left open my 75 gallon tank. So I purchased about 40 lbs of live rock, some sand (from lowes that I now know was a mistake), and skimmer. I kept my vortech and koralia pumps from the previous take and have them setup on this one now. The tank has been up and running without any inhabitants for the last 3 months. I had some thing come up financially that need to be taken care of first and decided to sideline the tank for a little while. I had been "ghost" feeding the take for about a month before I stopped with every thing and of course the cycle continued and not i have some brown diatoms blooming on the sand and glass. Now that i'm getting back into things I was wondering on what the best way to go about changing out the sand with out causing to much of a problem. I know I need some more rock but im also a minimalist when it comes to aquascaping the rock and cant stand the look of over cluttered rock tanks. I am also using a hang on the back filter as a kind of little fuge for now so it has about a pound of rock in there too and seems to help. My apologies for the long write-up here but any suggestions on moving forward would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for all the help.

12/01/2012, 08:53 AM	#5
Cymonous My Clown Attacks Me Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,105	I agree on removing the sand. Just note, it will create a really bad sand storm and your water will be super cloudy when you start to remove it. I would use a big cup to scoop out what you can, but don't pour back in any water you pick up. If you go with dry sand, do a heavy rinsing first. __________________ 100 Gallon Long with 20L sump 10 Gallon Office Tank Current Tank Info: 2 False Percula Clowns, One Spot Foxface, Diamond Watchman Goby, Yellow Tail Damsel, Engineer Goby

12/01/2012, 09:04 AM	#6
EllieSuz Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 3,858	The best way to remove the sand is to siphon it into a bucket, using a vinyl hose. If that seems like too large a loss of perfectly good saltwater, you can let the sand settle and put the water back in the tank. I removed my entire sand bed this way (it was crushed coral) taking out whatever I could with each weekly water change. It took a while, but was very effective. Once you acquire new sand, rinse it well until the water runs clear and soak it in freshly made saltwater for a while. Next, get one of those long necked funnels like the ones used for oil changes. There is a size of vinyl hose that fits the end of that funnel and you can cut it to reach the bottom of the tank. Spoon damp sand into the funnel and guide it wherever you want. I realize you don't have livestock in there yet, but avoiding clouding the water anyway can't be a bad thing. This method causes hardly any cloudy water. __________________ "You can't learn this hobby one question at a time." (Mr. Tuskfish) Eileen Current Tank Info: I'm out of the hobby, but used to have a60 gal. reef, refugium in sump, Internal Mag 9 return, SC 302 skimmer, two Maxi-Jet 1200's modded, four bulb T5 Lighting, Reefkeeper Lite Controller with three PC4's, Little Fishes GFO reactor.

12/01/2012, 09:49 AM	#9
Cymonous My Clown Attacks Me Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,105	Why start another cycle? Unless you are taking out 90% or more of the water, I wouldn't. __________________ 100 Gallon Long with 20L sump 10 Gallon Office Tank Current Tank Info: 2 False Percula Clowns, One Spot Foxface, Diamond Watchman Goby, Yellow Tail Damsel, Engineer Goby

12/01/2012, 05:16 PM	#13
EllieSuz Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 3,858	Putting egg crate on the bottom of a tank was an experiment gone wrong. It creates pocket of detritus that can't be removed. I recommend you put your rock directly on the glass and put your sand around the rock and call it a day. __________________ "You can't learn this hobby one question at a time." (Mr. Tuskfish) Eileen Current Tank Info: I'm out of the hobby, but used to have a60 gal. reef, refugium in sump, Internal Mag 9 return, SC 302 skimmer, two Maxi-Jet 1200's modded, four bulb T5 Lighting, Reefkeeper Lite Controller with three PC4's, Little Fishes GFO reactor.

11/30/2012, 05:53 PM	#2
sponger0 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 6,659	Remove the sand. Put new sand in. Put rock back in. And change 50% of the water. Test water to see if any ammonia spikes or cycle happens. If nothing happens withing 2-3 weeks, get a CUC and see if they survive.

11/30/2012, 09:44 PM	#3
Pieface Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Reno Nv Posts: 73	I would put the rock in first then the sand. You don't want the rock on top of the sand, it will shift or move and could cause a bigger problem for you. Not only that but it is easier to keep the sand bed clean.

12/01/2012, 08:29 AM	#4
All6Fish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Meriden, Ct Posts: 532	Im not sure about the whole rock before the sand trick as we added sand then rock and were fine. Anyway, how much rock do you plan on adding?

12/01/2012, 09:16 AM	#7
All6Fish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Meriden, Ct Posts: 532	If you go to a home depot or a lowes you can but plastic tubing VERY CHEAP. It will be the same quaility as you will get at your LFS that comes in a kit for removing water for changes but at 1/3 the cost.

12/01/2012, 09:39 AM	#8
ANC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Wintersville, OH Posts: 183	Thanks for all of the help. Losing the water is my biggest concern just because waiting for the RO/DI machine to make up enough water is just a PIA. I'm going to the stores today i think and getting this sand changed out this evening so I can move along with a CUC next weekend possibly. After I change out the sand should I go ahead and toss another piece of shrimp into the tank and wait a week or so just to cycle it again?

12/01/2012, 10:14 AM	#10
ANC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Wintersville, OH Posts: 183	See now I've always been under the impression that the bacteria that we so patiently grow during the cycling period are not in the water column but in the substrate i.e. the rock and sand. Am I wrong?

12/01/2012, 04:49 PM	#12
ANC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Wintersville, OH Posts: 183	Ok so by a show of hands who laughed when I said I was going to switch out all the sand today because I sure am laughing now...I went ahead and just emptied the tank. It seemed like te more I tried to do it manually the longer and harder it was because of the cloudy water. Here is my next question, I have egg crate at the bottom of the tank to prevent the bottom pane from cracking in the event of a rock slide. How important is it to get evey little cube cleaned out or am I just supposed to get wht I can and cover it with te new sand. Thanks for all the help everyone. I wish I would have seen the info on the sand a couple of months ago but oh well.

12/01/2012, 10:17 PM	#14
Pieface Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Reno Nv Posts: 73	+1 on the rock on the bottom. Your sand bed needs to have a small amount of circulation about it. if the rock is on the sand it becomes much like the area behind your frig.

12/02/2012, 05:23 PM	#15
ANC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Wintersville, OH Posts: 183	Went ahead and started all over again. Pull the egg crate off the bottom and cleaned out all the sand. Waiting on the RO/DI filters to make up the water now. I'll keep everyone updated over the next couple of days. Thanks for all the help.