Newbie basics and what comes 1st????

[Jerms01]

Hey All,
I am new to the reef world but have been eager to join for quite some time. I have plenty of experience with fresh water cichlids and planted tanks but very little on saltwater. I have been doing research on everything reef for the last couple of weeks and my head is spinning . I am looking to start a 75 gallon reef tank but though I would start small with a 40 gallon tall tank 36x12x20 as this is what I have laying around.

I am just looking to get the tank cycled with some live sand, live rock, and basic inhabitants to start. I am at a bit of a loss at what the basics are to get started ASAP. Here is a list of what I have and what I hope to get over the next 3-6 months and would just like help prioritizing and timing these purchases.

What I have:
---------------------------------
40 Gallon tall tank.
4x39 T5 fixture.
340 gph canister (probably wont use judging by reviews)
Couple of powerheads.

Ok so here goes. I would love to build a sump but do not have the room under my tank. I do plan on keeping soft and LPS corals at some point probably not till I get the 75 up with at least 500+ watts of lighting. I live in Phoenix AZ and tap water is horrible!

Step 1. My first thoughts were to get and RODI system before even getting the LR or Sand??
Step 2. Live sand and Rock to let cure in the tank then add basic inhabitants.
Step 3. Protein Skimmer (I have heard you can wait up to 3 months before needing one is this true ??)

Let this run for 3-6 months while I collect the lighting, sump/fuge, 775 gallon tank, and stand.

4. Add DSB and Live Rock to sump/fuge and cycle.
5. Transfer 40 gallon LR LS, and any inhabitants to the 75 and let er rip!

Please let me know if you think this sort of plan would work or if it would be better to just turn my 40 gallon into a sump and wait 3-6 months until I can gather all the components for the 75???

I would love to hear your thoughts to this approach and would welcome any advice and feed back. You guys have a great forum and I look forward to many many years of use.

Thank you,
Jeremy

[thebkramer]

double post that I didn't ask it to do!

[thebkramer]

WELCOME TO RC & THE ADDICTION!!

if you final goal is a 75g tank.. then I would just start with it and use your 40 as your sump! but thats my opinion. then take the time to REad, read, read!!!! lots of research and patience is VITAL to this hobby!!!!
take all you know about freshwater and trash it when it comes to salt!
can I ask what you mean by Step 2 when you say basic inhabitants? do you plan to cycle with live fish?? PLEASE do not do this !!! it is beyond cruel!! and noooo longer practiced!!

take some time to look around and ASK ask ask lots of questions if need be!!
start a list of things needed and things wanted!!! whats most important!!

here are some great links to get you started!!!!

WaterKeepers New to RC
WaterKeepers New to RC2
WaterKeepers Newbies Info
Capns Log Book
Sk8rs-How to Start a Tank
Sk8rs Blog
RO/DI Unit


by all means.. if you are just too excited lol and don't want to wait.. go ahead and start the 40g.. but I think it'll be easier on you wallet if you just start the 75g. if you do stick with the 40g and no sump.. you can always use HOB filters/skimmers..
and again... WELCOME!!!

[Jerms01]

Thank you for the quick response!

I was definitely not going to cycle with live inhabitants I also agree very inhumane. Guess I should have made that step 3 for clarification. Thought the let cure THEN add basics inhabitants would have cleared that up but sorry to worry you . Poor choice in wording. I was hoping that the live sand and rock would speed up the process to around 2-4 weeks. Then wait for the nitrites and nitrates to level off before adding any creatures.

Thank you for the input and links I will definitely review.

Jeremy

[thebkramer]

or maybe I just misread!!

I would def skip on the live sand.. total waste of money IMO!! so not worth it!! also.. I wouldn't go with ALL live rock either.. more waste.. plus you may have a lot of dieoff from it and will most certainly go through a no fun algae outbreak. so many cool things come in as hitchhikers with live rock, why take the chance of killing them? I would go with all dry rock and use a piece of shrimp to get your cycle going.. then after cycle complete.. get some LR to seed the rest
there is more info on that (other reefers will chime in to!) in the stickies (links) I gave ya.

[Jerms01]

That sir is beautiful! Thank you very much never though of a piece of shrimp to start off the cycle. I did try salt water once a very very long time ago and the stuff that came in on the LR was definitely very cool. I spent more time admiring little things I had never put in the tank that anything else!

I never head of the dry rock though I will definitely give that a read. Then ask a million questions I'm sure lol.

Thank you very much sir!

[coralsnaked]

Probably should just go w/ the 75 gal when you can collect all the needed equipment and set he 40 gal up as a nice sump.

For the 75 gal you will need the following equip:

A return pump in the 750 gph range
A power head in the 1500 gph range to keep LPS corals
A well-functioning sump
A skimmer rated for up to 150 gal
A reactor to run carbon and / or GFO
A lighting system rated at 300 watts VHO,CF, MH or 1/3 of that for LED w/ good reflector
A good dosing schedule or automated dosing pumps in an ATO system
Good testing equipment for foundation elements and NO2, NO3, Amm IE Salifert or RS Pro
125 - 150 lbs of high quality well cured rock prior to introducing to display tank
RODI system w/ TDS metering
High quality reef salts (Kent)
High quality supplements (Kent, Salifert)

And a host of other small items such as refractometer, PO4 meter, xtra powerhead for mixing water, pump for running reactor, ect..

The best advice I would give you is to consider how trouble free and low maintance of a tank you desire. The harder you work at setting up a quality tank the easier it will run and the prettier it will display. Remember that nuisance algae are the most common problem we encounter in a reef tank. And it is best avoided in the front end set up than in combating it in the end. Make sure you use plenty or rock.
In my experience using the minimum standard of 1 lb per gallon makes us work too hard to maintain the reef tank. I utilize 1.5 lb per gallon as a minimum and like 2 lbs per gallon for an absolutely rocking denitrifying system. Second thing is to make sure you leech out all the PO4 out of that rock before you add to display tank (curing). Do this in a brute trash can w/ a heater and a power head. Test and do water changes in the brute till all PO4 is gone. You can utilize several other methods prior to curing if you start w/ dry rock (acid washing, lanthem crystals ect…) but then you still cure prior to cycling the rock for nitrifying bacteria in the tank.
If you must cure in the display tank then do so without any substrate. Add substrate only after the rock is cured and is nitrifying (cycling). In the long run eliminating all this PO4 (which nearly all rock has) will save you a bunch of trouble later on. Choose your substrate carefully. Sand is only one option and is NOT always the best option. And do not overload your bio-filter w/ too much livestock that moves. Any living creature that moves needs to be calculated in the bio-load. This includes not only fish but inverts as well. But I would estimate this amount of rock would with a 75 gal display and a 40 gal sump would carry 15 small fish (1-3 in) 10 medium (3-5in ) and tank is too small for any larger fish, and a standard cleanup crew for 75 gal. Maybe a combo 40 snails and hermits and 2 -3 cleaner shrimp.

I hope you make good decisions and end up w/ a Merry Skerry

[Jerms01]

Thank you Coralsnaked very very thorough. Looks like I better extend that time frame out to 6-12 months then . How much of that stuff such as dosing pumps, reactors, and skimmers can I schedule out in the future or should that stuff be there from day 1?

[Jerms01]

Seems to me that I am going to be curing and cycling for at least 2 months. Then running a cleaning crew for a while and not adding any fish or live stock till around 3-6 months. Would that be the best time to add say the skimmer and reactor. Probably save the dosing pump until I start adding coral around 5-6 months?

[Vin7250]

40 gallon tall, IMO, does not make for a very good reef tank. If you want a 75 start with a 75 but if you are going to start smaller for whatever reason do a 40 breeder. They make very good small reefs. You want light penetration for a reef tank and the taller the tank the less watts make it to the lower regions.

[Jerms01]

Yeah I have decided to go 75. I am ordering the RO/DI system this weekend from (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/). I will start working on turning the 40 gallon into a sump and working on the stand and canopy for the tank.

Figured that will keep me busy for a couple of weeks until I get more money lol. Trying to take the slow and patient way just never been any good at it. Figured gotta start some where....