Need help with return pump size

04mach1 · 12/30/2012, 02:07 PM

Tank is a 24x24x12 deep blue with a 27 gallon sump. I am going to tee the return off at the top to have two nozzles returning water from the sump. The return will be coming up about 3.5 feet to the nozzles. My hope is that will be enough flow to not have to put a powerhead in the tank. I have a Danner 18 which says it will flow 1100 at 5 feet. I can put a ball volve to slow the flow down if this will work. If not any suggestions?

azjohnny · 12/30/2012, 02:14 PM

that will be way too much flow going through your sump, I like to shoot for either 3x the DT or 10x the sump volume, and that is actual water volume in the sump not the capacity.

Also I like to match the skimmers ability to process water to the water flow through the sump...IME the skimmer will be more efficient when the flow is on the slower side

That flow will be pretty slow, I highly suggest supplemental water flow in the DT

04mach1 · 12/30/2012, 02:17 PM

SO would a model 7 work or 9.5?

04mach1 · 12/30/2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azjohnny

I like to shoot for either 3x the DT or 10x the sump volume, and that is actual water volume in the sump not the capacity.

So 3x30 (30 gallon tank)? Thats 90 GPH? Seems to be to slow. Correct me if im not reading that correctly.

azjohnny · 12/30/2012, 03:06 PM

yes....unless you have a HOB overflow than you will need what it is rated for to keep the U tube flowing.

IMO the return pump is used for the purpose of increasing the water level in the DT so water can get to the sump via the overflow. This will not be very much flow, I use circulation pumps for the flow in the DT.

The filtration is more effective with the lower flow through the sump. I would put a ball valve after the pump so you can dial in the flow from the return and experiment

What size is your drain pipe?....a 1" pipe can drain about 600 gph before it starts becoming noisey

What skimmer will you be using?

azjohnny · 12/30/2012, 03:14 PM

IMO there are much better options than a Mag pump, I like the Eheim and Sicce pumps...for you a Sicce 2.0 or Eheim 1260 valved back a little would be good. When you valve back a pump you will decrease the wattage the pump will consume

Myka · 12/30/2012, 03:35 PM

Johnny gives good advice. I like to keep sump flow about 5-7x turnover though. 6.1x turnover will allow 99.[something]% of the volume to pass through the sump in a 24 hour period which is usually plenty.

04mach1 · 12/30/2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azjohnny

yes....unless you have a HOB overflow than you will need what it is rated for to keep the U tube flowing.

IMO the return pump is used for the purpose of increasing the water level in the DT so water can get to the sump via the overflow. This will not be very much flow, I use circulation pumps for the flow in the DT.

The filtration is more effective with the lower flow through the sump. I would put a ball valve after the pump so you can dial in the flow from the return and experiment

What size is your drain pipe?....a 1" pipe can drain about 600 gph before it starts becoming noisey

What skimmer will you be using?

Tank is bottom drilled with a 1" drain and 3/4 return. Thanks for all the help. And I havent picked a skimmer yet so any advice on that? Sump foot print for a skimmer is 6"x18x8.5"(to the top of the first baffle) and the sump is 18" tall.

04mach1 · 12/30/2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azjohnny

..for you a Sicce 2.0

And its on sale!! lol
http://www.amazon.com/Sicce-Syncra-A.../dp/B004ZJDNJC

markaren · 12/30/2012, 04:56 PM

I agree with Johnny too.

reefriot13 · 12/30/2012, 05:07 PM

im running a mag 7 on my 60gal with a megaflow kit,return is via single 3/4" line split into 2 pieces of loc line. I wish i had gone with a mag 9.5 or something similiar. put your return on a old school sea swirl, will give you more coverage without adding a powerhead

MGM_ · 12/31/2012, 05:45 PM

I had problem with flow being to slow to get anything to "pull" through my overflow. I would watch as small particles would float right past the teeth of my overflow. Top surface had a film as well. Increased pump size and now surface is clear and can almost see fish getting sucked through the teeth of my overflow..LOL

cramideas · 12/31/2012, 09:55 PM

If you want to use the pump for flow then the mag 18 would probably work but the short contact time in your sump might not be the best either depending on how you use your sump. I have a mag 18 running ine but my DT is 150g w/ a 30 sump (that just has a heater & skimmer in it so contact time isnt big to me)

Myka · 01/01/2013, 09:33 AM

If you have too much flow in the sump, and you have a skimmer in the sump, you will have a hard time keeping microbubbles out of the display tank.

RobinsonFam1 · 01/01/2013, 12:09 PM

a 1" drain will not handle more than a mag 7 at that head pressure, you would still have to valve it back.

a 1" drain will typically only handle 400+ gph IIRC. correct me if im wrong on that

azjohnny · 01/01/2013, 01:48 PM

a 1" drain can handle 600 gph but that is the max and it it would be noisey

just because a drain can handle X amount doesn't mean it should, I wouldn't go over 400

I have a 1.5" drain and it can handle 1500gph but I don't have more than 500 going through it

12/30/2012, 02:07 PM	#1
04mach1 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: chesapeake va Posts: 304	Need help with return pump size Tank is a 24x24x12 deep blue with a 27 gallon sump. I am going to tee the return off at the top to have two nozzles returning water from the sump. The return will be coming up about 3.5 feet to the nozzles. My hope is that will be enough flow to not have to put a powerhead in the tank. I have a Danner 18 which says it will flow 1100 at 5 feet. I can put a ball volve to slow the flow down if this will work. If not any suggestions?

12/30/2012, 03:35 PM	#7
Myka Reefing since '93 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SK, Canada Posts: 2,436	Johnny gives good advice. I like to keep sump flow about 5-7x turnover though. 6.1x turnover will allow 99.[something]% of the volume to pass through the sump in a 24 hour period which is usually plenty. __________________ ~ Mindy, SPS addict. Current Tank Info: 69 SPS (73 gal net) established July 1/15. (HBD Canada!) ATB 840, ATI 6-bulb dimmable. Fauna Marin balling lite method.

12/30/2012, 04:56 PM	#10
markaren Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Clermont ,Florida Posts: 634	I agree with Johnny too. __________________ Mark Current Tank Info: Oceanic 76G Half Circle/XP2000SSS/MP40Wes/Radion Gen1, Tunze Osmolator ATO...Maturing Stage

12/31/2012, 05:45 PM	#12
MGM_ Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 240	I had problem with flow being to slow to get anything to "pull" through my overflow. I would watch as small particles would float right past the teeth of my overflow. Top surface had a film as well. Increased pump size and now surface is clear and can almost see fish getting sucked through the teeth of my overflow..LOL __________________ 180 gallon- 70 gallon sump Hammer/Cuda hybrid (14 ft head) 175 lbs live rock 3 Koralia 1400 gph- 2 x Tunze 6105 4-AI SOL RB LEDS

01/01/2013, 09:33 AM	#14
Myka Reefing since '93 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SK, Canada Posts: 2,436	If you have too much flow in the sump, and you have a skimmer in the sump, you will have a hard time keeping microbubbles out of the display tank. __________________ ~ Mindy, SPS addict. Current Tank Info: 69 SPS (73 gal net) established July 1/15. (HBD Canada!) ATB 840, ATI 6-bulb dimmable. Fauna Marin balling lite method.

12/30/2012, 02:14 PM	#2
azjohnny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Gold Canyon Posts: 2,914	that will be way too much flow going through your sump, I like to shoot for either 3x the DT or 10x the sump volume, and that is actual water volume in the sump not the capacity. Also I like to match the skimmers ability to process water to the water flow through the sump...IME the skimmer will be more efficient when the flow is on the slower side That flow will be pretty slow, I highly suggest supplemental water flow in the DT

12/30/2012, 02:17 PM	#3
04mach1 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: chesapeake va Posts: 304	SO would a model 7 work or 9.5?

12/30/2012, 03:06 PM	#5
azjohnny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Gold Canyon Posts: 2,914	yes....unless you have a HOB overflow than you will need what it is rated for to keep the U tube flowing. IMO the return pump is used for the purpose of increasing the water level in the DT so water can get to the sump via the overflow. This will not be very much flow, I use circulation pumps for the flow in the DT. The filtration is more effective with the lower flow through the sump. I would put a ball valve after the pump so you can dial in the flow from the return and experiment What size is your drain pipe?....a 1" pipe can drain about 600 gph before it starts becoming noisey What skimmer will you be using?

12/30/2012, 03:14 PM	#6
azjohnny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Gold Canyon Posts: 2,914	IMO there are much better options than a Mag pump, I like the Eheim and Sicce pumps...for you a Sicce 2.0 or Eheim 1260 valved back a little would be good. When you valve back a pump you will decrease the wattage the pump will consume

12/30/2012, 05:07 PM	#11
reefriot13 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 87	im running a mag 7 on my 60gal with a megaflow kit,return is via single 3/4" line split into 2 pieces of loc line. I wish i had gone with a mag 9.5 or something similiar. put your return on a old school sea swirl, will give you more coverage without adding a powerhead

12/31/2012, 09:55 PM	#13
cramideas Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hurricane WV Posts: 70	If you want to use the pump for flow then the mag 18 would probably work but the short contact time in your sump might not be the best either depending on how you use your sump. I have a mag 18 running ine but my DT is 150g w/ a 30 sump (that just has a heater & skimmer in it so contact time isnt big to me)

01/01/2013, 12:09 PM	#15
RobinsonFam1 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: USA Posts: 616	a 1" drain will not handle more than a mag 7 at that head pressure, you would still have to valve it back. a 1" drain will typically only handle 400+ gph IIRC. correct me if im wrong on that

01/01/2013, 01:48 PM	#16
azjohnny Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Gold Canyon Posts: 2,914	a 1" drain can handle 600 gph but that is the max and it it would be noisey just because a drain can handle X amount doesn't mean it should, I wouldn't go over 400 I have a 1.5" drain and it can handle 1500gph but I don't have more than 500 going through it