New Pecula Fish In QT and DT Cycle Questions

[Angel85]

So at first I was going to wait on getting fish until after I move (im moving about 45 minutes away in 2months) but i decided a few days ago that I would like to get a pair of Pecula clowns started in QT. My DT has been cycling for almost 4 weeks now. I am cycling it with some live rock and dropping in fish flakes for the past few days.

Q:Ammonia in DT is around 0.5ppm and nitite and nitrate test 0. Is this a sign i do not yet have enough nitrifying bacteria? From my understanding, the benificial bacteria turns ammonia to less harmful, nitrate or nitrite. By them showing zero does that say anything about the nitrifying bacteria level in the DT?

Q:Am I over doing it if my LR is curring in DT AND I am adding fish flakes for ghost feeding? Is the LR curing enough to jumpstart the cycle? Also why is there so much debrise from the LR? If you move it all these small particles go everywhere. Is it from dieoff?

Q: This last question I am sure will get alot of mixed responses...My LFS swears by a product that claims that it adds colonizing live benificial bacteria to the tank. They say it can have the tank cycled in 3 weeks and control ammonia and nitrite. Its a liquid additive called nitromax marine. The product doesnt claim immediate cycle, but it claims "faster results"

(Clowns are small, about 1" and in QT with bare bottom 10 gal. I acclimated them to the temp of the qt by floating the closed bag for about 25 minutes, then netted them out and dumped dealer water down the drain. Salinity 0.027 which is what their dealers water measured. HOB Aqua Clear filter for 20 gallon tanks. Airstone for extra ariation. 2 or 3 lbs manmade cultured rock with coralline algae for hiding, but since it is not live it does not need to cure. Heater set to 80 F., Thermometor, and plan to add my skimmer tonight, which is Oceanic brand.)


Feedback?

[Angel85]

Here they are. They appear active and are swimming together.

[Angel85]

Anyone have any feedback on my questions, please? Clowns are still doing well, active and eating.

[MuffsAbby]

Originally Posted by Angel85

So at first I was going to wait on getting fish until after I move (im moving about 45 minutes away in 2months) but i decided a few days ago that I would like to get a pair of Pecula clowns started in QT. My DT has been cycling for almost 4 weeks now. I am cycling it with some live rock and dropping in fish flakes for the past few days.

Q:Ammonia in DT is around 0.5ppm and nitite and nitrate test 0. Is this a sign i do not yet have enough nitrifying bacteria? From my understanding, the benificial bacteria turns ammonia to less harmful, nitrate or nitrite. By them showing zero does that say anything about the nitrifying bacteria level in the DT?

Given you have 0 nitrite/nitrate and ammonia is just starting to rise, I'd say your cycle is now starting. You will know you are at the end when both ammonia and nitrite rise and then fall to 0.

Q:Am I over doing it if my LR is curring in DT AND I am adding fish flakes for ghost feeding? Is the LR curing enough to jumpstart the cycle? Also why is there so much debrise from the LR? If you move it all these small particles go everywhere. Is it from dieoff?

I don't have LR in my DT, so I'm no expert on this topic and hopefully someone else will chime in...but I suspect the flakes are neither helping nor hurting. So, it's up to you. I also suspect the particles are due from dieoff.

Q: This last question I am sure will get alot of mixed responses...My LFS swears by a product that claims that it adds colonizing live benificial bacteria to the tank. They say it can have the tank cycled in 3 weeks and control ammonia and nitrite. Its a liquid additive called nitromax marine. The product doesnt claim immediate cycle, but it claims "faster results"

I would stay away from bottled bacteria in your DT. I have used bottled bacteria (BioSpira) in my QT, which resulted in an immediate cycle, but I don't trust the long-term impacts, so I never used it in my DT. As for "faster results", how would you ever know? That is, no two cyles take the same length of time, so how would you know whether it was or was not "faster". I'd be dubious of that claim.

(Clowns are small, about 1" and in QT with bare bottom 10 gal. I acclimated them to the temp of the qt by floating the closed bag for about 25 minutes, then netted them out and dumped dealer water down the drain. Salinity 0.027 which is what their dealers water measured. HOB Aqua Clear filter for 20 gallon tanks. Airstone for extra ariation. 2 or 3 lbs manmade cultured rock with coralline algae for hiding, but since it is not live it does not need to cure. Heater set to 80 F., Thermometor, and plan to add my skimmer tonight, which is Oceanic brand.)

Clowns are cute! Is that LR in your QT or artificial rock? If it's LR: it's not a good idea to keep LR in a QT if you ever plan to medicate.

Feedback?

[tangs_tank]

Angel, at four weeks into your cycle and still reading ammonia, etc. then you still need to wait and continue testing. With LR I never fed the tank during cycle, I personally don't think its necessary. The debri from you rocks is partially die off and your feeding. If you didn't rinse off the rocks then you may have some debri too. Your QT shouldn't have rocks cuz they will trap bacteria and some you don't want, especially if your fish has outbreak of any kind. Put some pvc pipes in there. A skimmer is not necessary, I wouldn't spend the money, air stone also not necessary. HOB filter, thermometer, heater, ammonia tag, pvc, grate for a lid should do it. Keep fish in for at least 4 weeks. Hope this helps.

[Braxibear]

Sounds like the cycle in the DT isn't finished yet. Just hold out a little longer. Like Susan said, don't put LR in your QT. If you ever needed to medicate your QT, the meds will kill off your LR, so it just serves as dead rock that will raise your ammonia levels. Tangs tank said the best idea. Get a few large pvp pipes(I use 3" elbows). Best thing for your babies!

Hope that helps.

[Angel85]

Thanks everyone! I did not put in the skimmer but I went out and got a seachem brand ammonia alert detector. Its showing the qt is under .02ppm and i have been monitoring the temp daily as well. I took sk8rs advice from the stickies and i have 2 thermometors lol

The rock is manmade, not LR so no dieoff. Should I remove it anyway?

I will stop the ghost feedings in the dt since there is so much debris from the LR which i believe is still curring anyway.

Good point muffsabby on the bacteria additives. There is no way to prove faster cycle. Unless, I suppose you do a controlled study. Which I dont care to do, lol.

But the lfs sold me on the bacteria additive so I suppose I will just use it since I bought it.

[Sk8r]

haste makes waste, especially in this hobby. Just continue to keep the clowns in qt, and maintain them carefully. You should have snails in your DT for about a month before it will be totally ready for fish.

[Angel85]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

haste makes waste, especially in this hobby. Just continue to keep the clowns in qt, and maintain them carefully. You should have snails in your DT for about a month before it will be totally ready for fish.

Hey Sk8r! Thanks for the advice! Ive been doing everything by the book, no shortcuts. Question for you. You said before in your stickies do NOT cycle the qt, run it like an old fashion tank. Would you explain more for me? What is the reason not to cycle a QT? Did you mean to avoid ammonia spike while fish are in it? Or is there another reason not to cycle a qt?

[Angel85]

Still reading ammonia in dt but I am using 2 diffrent products to measure and they read diffrent. Using seachem, I read 0.02ppm but also I have tetra ammonia test strips and ammonia reads .5 ppm. I guess i should trust seachem over tetra brand?

[MuffsAbby]

Well, I wouldn't trust a strip...but another reason for the difference you're seeing could be that Seachem is measuring free ammonia only (that's what a reading of 0.02 suggests to me), whereas tetra is measuring total ammonia. So the comparison is likely not apples to apples.

[Angel85]

Should i use something else to measure? Like a diffrent brand or method?

[MuffsAbby]

Well, if it's your DT we're talking about (and I think it is), then you can keep using the tests you're using. The relevant issue in the DT is when ammonia falls to zero, and if ammonia is zero, then both free and total ammonia will be zero. In your QT, the relevant measure is free ammonia, since that's what is harmful to fish...so in your QT, I'd rely on the Seachem free ammonia test.

[Angel85]

Clowns are still doing very well in QT! Its almost been 4 weeks for them in qt so my DT has been cycling about 7 or maybe 8 weeks. I think I need to go get a better ammonia test kit. Using the strips, it seems the ammonia level has dropped, but not yet reading 0. Maybe I could take a sample to my LFS and get a second opinion on the ammonia level.

I am actually nervous. I dont want to add my clowns to the DT lol. Im worried about the transition. They are my first saltwater fish.

[MuffsAbby]

What is your Seachem (non-strip) test showing for ammonia? If you're still unsure as to the reading, then you're right to buy a new test kit and/or have your LFS double-check the results. While you're waiting, now is a good time to slowly bring the salinity and temp in the QT to the same levels as in the DT (if they're not already the same).

Not to worry...your clowns will be fine!

[Angel85]

Thanks Susan. The seachem ammonia detector shows as 0.02ppm (i think?) Might have to double check that. I need to test for nitrite, havnt checked it in a while. But I set up the tank end of May this year. I have a couple hermit crabs in dt now. 2 died but 3 are alive. I think they had been fighting over shells. I saw one out of his shell climbing all over another hermit who was still in his.

[Angel85]

By the way, i am still growing hidiously ugly brown algae in the tank. Guess its diotoms. The sand bed seems to have cleared a little though. I really dislike that ugly algae but was advised to leave it alone and it should pass. Is that right?

[MuffsAbby]

Free ammonia of 0.02 is at the "alert" level. You might have someone double check your test results, including ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Also, I find the API ammonia test kit (with drops/bottles, not strips) the easiest one to read. As for diatoms...yes, they will pass on their own. Mine took a while and I swore they would never leave, but one morning I got up and they were gone...never to return!

[Touring]

Originally Posted by Angel85

By the way, i am still growing hidiously ugly brown algae in the tank. Guess its diotoms. The sand bed seems to have cleared a little though. I really dislike that ugly algae but was advised to leave it alone and it should pass. Is that right?

Yes that is normal, your CUC will take care of that when you are cycled. just give it time.

[Angel85]

Thanks for the recommendations. I will look into cuc soon, the hermits are pooping more than cleaning. Probly remove them and get snails instead. I will take a sample to my lfs soon. Maybe even tommorow.

I will look into the api brand. The ammonia alert is color coded where yellow means 0.02 but the resault is a very pale, light yellow so maybe i am reading it incorrectly.

[MuffsAbby]

Originally Posted by Angel85

The ammonia alert is color coded where yellow means 0.02 but the resault is a very pale, light yellow so maybe i am reading it incorrectly.

Ahhh...now I understand. When you said you were using the Seachem test, I thought you meant their liquid test. I didn't realize you meant the Seachem ammonia alert badge. Pale, light yellow on the alert badge means LESS THAN 0.02, and could easily be 0. My alert badge reads yellow all the time and, when I double check with the API test I always get a 0 reading. I suspect that will be the case for you too.

[Angel85]

Originally Posted by MuffsAbby

Ahhh...now I understand. When you said you were using the Seachem test, I thought you meant their liquid test. I didn't realize you meant the Seachem ammonia alert badge. Pale, light yellow on the alert badge means LESS THAN 0.02, and could easily be 0. My alert badge reads yellow all the time and, when I double check with the API test I always get a 0 reading. I suspect that will be the case for you too.

Lol. Well, my cycle must be done then. I will still take a water sample to my lfs for them to test.

Better to have waited then to have rushed. I am moving in 2 weeks. Is it better to just keep the clowns in qt anyway? Then when we are in the new house I can transfer them to DT...

[MuffsAbby]

I would keep them in QT for a few more weeks, so they'll be easier to catch come moving day...not that clowns are known for their speed. Good luck!

[Angel85]

Oh, i didnt even think of that! Well 2 more weeks would =about 6 weeks of qt. Which is better anyway. Thanks again for the help

[Angel85]

Update: everything had been going great, moved the 29 gal biocube 40 miles away. My clowns and zoas were fine and growing...

One of my clowns, a few days ago, was missing and i found her dead in the back of the biocube. Thats one thing i dont like about the biocube.Snails and Fish jump the wall and go missing.

I just added 2 firefish gobies and 6 red leg hermits but my lfs were out if clowns. I do want to get another clown so they can be a pair..