sump plumbing

[whodeydan76]

Ok this 93 gal cube is my first drilled tank and I am stuck trying to figure out what type of plumbing to use from the bulkhead to sump and from return pump to water return. I thought about hard plumbing it but I think I want flex line with at least a union of some sort so I can remove things from the sump later if needed. I am also thinking my return motor is a mag 24 and the sump is a 40 gal cube... if I add a fuge to one end of the sump will that leave me with enough water volume for my enormous pump? Should I make baffles in the sump?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[MrClam]

Why are you intent on using such a large return pump? Unless you have significant head loss that is unavoidable I would suggest using a smaller return, as that amount of flow is going to make a fuge useless IMO

[Elrodg]

I recommend using hard pipe. You can get connections that allow you to break things down quite easily. Flex pipe can be convenient in some cases but can be quite a headache.

Also I give a +1 on the pump size. You will have to back that pump off a lot. Or hard pipe a few elbows to reduce output

[whodeydan76]

I'm not intent on using it...it is what came with the set up. I asked the previous owner and he said he only had to back it off a touch to prevent bubbles in the dt. I am just trying to avoid buying another pump as the budget is getting skimpy at least until the tax return gets here.

[whodeydan76]

Should I try to sell it? If so how much and what size should I get?

[billdogg]

I would suggest that you use hard pvc (or flex pvc that is not really all that flexible) for as much of the plumbing as you can. True Union fittings on both sides fo your return pump will be your best friend when you need to clean/replace the pump. You can get them from www.savco.com for a decent price. Sometimes Lowes will have them also. Don't even waste your time looking at HD - all you will find there is a blank stare. Regardless of the return pump you choose, a ball (or better yet, gate) valve on the return line will allow you to adjust the flow to optimze it for your system. I would also suggest that you use a short (6 - 12") piece of vinyl tubing on both ends of your return pump to help minimize vibrations.

FWIW - a mag24 is way bigger than I would use on that tank also. It will add a tremendous amount of heat to your system, and waste electricity. Save it for a saltwater mixing station - it would be great for mixing/moving water on waterchange day.
hth

[whodeydan76]

I had a guy offer me a mag 9.5 and "some cash" for my pump. He has a 180gal dt. Any idea what would be an acceptable amount to make up the diff in price?

[Sokretys]

If i were you i would try and sell the mag24 for cash. It runs at 265 watts dude! The biggest i would go is a Sicce Syncra 4.0. You could get away with a 3.5. The 4.0 runs on 85 watts and the 3.5 @68 watts. A sicce syncra will pay itself off in no time. And i dont know how concerned you are about noise, but mag drives are some of the loudest pumps on the market. They sell because they move water and easy to find. Read a review or 2 on the syncras, they are dead quiet. I use them on all my clients tanks

As far as plumbing. Like you were saying, use a quality union wherever possible. Don't use ball valves to dial back a pump. They are not designed for that and WILL eventually fail. Gate valves are a touch more money but are designed for flow adjustments. Reinforced vinyl hosing from bulk reek and barb adapters from marinedepot are wonderful together

[ChadRaay86]

You definitely don't need that MAG24, it runs hot and is going overboard on that small of a tank. That being said its not impossible, not ideal for a fuge the way its setup but doable on a budget If I were you I'd run a smaller external pump as heat can become a problem in a hurry. Depending on how the last owner had the tank set up, you could add 1-2 powerheads to make up for any flow lost with a switch to a smaller return pump.

Also, as far as plumbing is concerned, I almost killed myself plumbing my 300DD. I hard plumbed it and can confirm that your thought that flex tubing makes life easier is on point. Mine may look more "neat", but it was a pain in the butt to do lol.

[Elrodg]

I use a 500gph fountain pump I got from lowest for my 75g dt. Has a built in uv lamp and is made to push upwards. Fantastic pump.

[whodeydan76]

Well thank you all for the input..I am trying to find a smaller pump on a budget. I just want to know how much I should ask for the mag 24 for?
I have a friend that has been in the hobby for over 30 years and he suggested a flexible glue able PVC style hose. I checked at Lowes and they had it in 2" I need 1". After a fairly painful search I found some at a local pool supply. They use the stuff to plumb hottubs. I spoke with the owner and he told me to come in...he gave me a 4' section and told me he wanted help in a month or so when he sets up his first ever reef tank I gladly agreed. The stuff is rated at 1000 psi so I should not have any issues with the pipe failing.

[whodeydan76]

*don't mind the extra "for" on the first paragraph...posting from my phone.

[Palting]

I don't know why everyone is so fixated on hard plumbing. I received the same advice 3 years ago, "hard plumbing or else". I wasn't quite sure about how I wanted to route the pipes, so I started with flexible hose first. That was 3 years ago. I still have flexible hose, and likely will never go to hard plumbing. There is a lot to be said about gentle curves for flexible hose rather than 90 degree elbows, plus it is so easy to revise and change if needed, as well as easy to take apart for maintenance. Hard plumbing looks really cool and organized, but flexible hose beats it for practicality. IMO anyway.

Here are some pics, as well as comments on why I prefer flexible hoses.

The first set-up. Just trying to visualize how the pipes will go by using flexible hose, to be replaced by PVC later. Or so I thought at that time.


Made several revisions. Changed the route, went down to one pump, etc, etc, etc. Changing things around and maintenance is a breeze with flexible hose. Try that with glued hard plumbing. Here is what it look like in final version, with the flexible hoses secured to the cabinet with hangers and holders, and all connections secured with clamps or zip ties..


What happens if there is a catastrophe? No problem with flexible hose. My sump developed a leak in one corner. I took the sump off-line to repair it, and made a temporary sump using a 55 gallon tank. Just pulled the guts out of the sump, and plopped them into the 55. Easy. Try that with rigid PVC


I liked it so much, I went for flexible hose from the get-go when I set up the next tank, a 110 predator tank. Here's a pic of the plumbing during the build.


I'll definitely go with flexible hose again for the next build. I'm not pushing you one way or the other. Just making sure you know what ALL your options are.

[Palting]

As for the pumps, new Mag 24 is $204, new 9.4 is $106, a $98 difference. Since you are swapping used for used with your friend, the cash leftover shouldn't be too far from that. For an outright sale, check Craigslist to give yourself an idea of selling price.

[YamahaF934]

Paltin, You said you went with soft pipe to avoid 90's and such. But you still have 90 degree fittings with you soft pipe.???

[Palting]

Originally Posted by YamahaF934

Paltin, You said you went with soft pipe to avoid 90's and such. But you still have 90 degree fittings with you soft pipe.???

LOL!! Yes I do, because I wanted all that elbow room, and I started the design plan with the original concept of switching to rigid pipes. But the number of 90 degree turns is about half of what I would be with rigid pipes. Especially for the return plumbing, where the angled turns affect pump efficiency. For the predator tank, designed to be flexible hose forever, the return tubing is a single hose with gentle curves .

[Deinonych]

I used flexible PVC for much of my sump plumbing. Seemed to be a good compromise between hard PVC and vinyl tubing.

[whodeydan76]

Thank you all for the input. I just got all of the plumbing together and figured out my stand has sliding doors on the sides which is great...BUT they slide toward the back of the stand. How in the sam hill are you supposed to use these doors when the tank is set up and in place?!?! I need the doors to slide away from the back of the stand! Looks like some modifications are soon to occur. I have been waiting to fill this thing while making water and gathering sump plumbing... now a brick wall lol gotta love this hobby! ~

[Elrodg]

well IMPO hard pipe is just more reliable. also it allows for a little more rigidity... also allows for gluing. but I'm also using a DIY pvc overflow.(stupid non drilled tank) so that has a bit to do with it I think.

[hogfanreefer]

Palting, I noticed you don't have any hose clamps. Are all those connections barbed connectors? I thought I saw one street el with the hose pushed over the street el? I guess 3 years is proof enough but I was thinking something to keep from accidentally pulling the hose off might be needed?

[whodeydan76]

The flex line I used is PVC matetial just in a flex form it can be glued just like a hard pipe. I used rigid pipe on the drain/overflow and rigid from the bulkhead down to a gate valve and a union then a union then flex then a union then the pump. All Teflon taped and glued respectively. (No glue on threads or Teflon tape on slip joints)

[whodeydan76]

I'll take a pic then I'll post it.

[whodeydan76]

Nm on pic tonight I'll post one tomorrow when I can get on my laptop.

[Palting]

Originally Posted by hogfanreefer

Palting, I noticed you don't have any hose clamps. Are all those connections barbed connectors? I thought I saw one street el with the hose pushed over the street el? I guess 3 years is proof enough but I was thinking something to keep from accidentally pulling the hose off might be needed?

All the flexible hose connections to barb connectors currently have zip ties to hold them in place and avoid leaks. I use the zip tie with an available tightening tool to REALY tighten them. Once they are on, the only way to disconnect the hose is by cutting the zip ties off. The one's without zip ties on the pics are either being dry fitted for length, or have just been disconnected or reassembled.

All PVC to PVC connections are glued. Except for the Durso drains. I only silicone those into the bulkheads, so that I can easily disassemble them for maintenance.

There are also plastic clamps available for the flexible hose, but the only place I can get them is online since none of the local HD carry plastic clamps of appropriate size. There are stainless clamps available locally, but these do corrode in saltwater, especially the bolts. Ask me how I know

All connections MUST be secure.