Uh-oh, all input is greatly appreciated!

[ReefLuvr00]

Hello, I am new to Saltwater aquariums. Okay about 3 1/2 - 4 weeks ago I went to my LFS and decided to get a 30g Saltwater aquarium. The woman told me no problem and helped me get everything I needed to set it up (Live rock, live sand, Aqueon 50 filter, heater, and large box of instant ocean salt mix ). I then asked her after I got home and got the tank set up how long would it be until I could add fish, her reply "tomorrow as long as the sand has settled and the water is no longer cloudy". Little did I know I should have done much research before I went to my LFS. ( no harsh comments please, i am still a newbie and now know that I need to learn as much as I can before I move forward to keeping this tank). Anyways, I went back the next day and purchased, 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Black saddleback clownfish, 1 Chocolate Chip Starfish, 2 blue leg hermit crabs, and 1 Green Striped Mandarin fish. Tank has been doing great, salinity is at 1.023-1.024 and I bought a 800gph powerhead for the tank as well about two weeks ago. I have been doing 25-30% water changes every two weeks. I have no bought myself a test kit for the water but have been taking a water sample into my LFS once a week and all has been fine, last week Nitrites were a little high but they told me that it would be fine. SOO, this morning I get up and the clownfish was hanging around the top of the tank like gulping for air and the black on him was starting to turn white....did a water change and that didnt help he lost the fight and died Around noon i fed the other fish in the tank some frozen Mysis shrimp and the yellow tang did not eat and usually he is the liveliest fish in the tank. An hour later my tangs fins and face and sides started turning red with splotches everywhere and then he started going to the top of the water, and now he has passed away......

I now know that I should have cycled the tank for atleast 4-6 weeks minimum before adding fish. Is this why they have died? I am thinking ammonia toxicity? Not really sure...I guess my main question is : Is my tank still in the cycling process and how long should I wait before getting any more fish for this tank?

Thanks in advance, all advice is welcome!

[gone fishin]

I would say you are definately cycling. Get yourself a test kit. have the inverts died yet. do not add anything else until the tank has cycled. There are some stickies at the top of the forum that will be of help to you. they will answer alot of your questions and post back with more questions. there are some very experienced people here. One costly mistake but do not let it get you discouraged.

[DarthNater]

facepalm i would also try and find a different lfs.

[ReefLuvr00]

No, nothing else has died yet. I really hope that they do not! Especially my Mandarin, i really like him. It was a very costly mistake but hopefully now I can get all of the information that I need on here and it will not happen again! I am going to buy a test kit tomorrow....if the ammonia is high or the nitrites, what can I do to lower them?

[Anemone]

Red splotches like that, especially around the gills, is a sign of ammonia damage. You need your own testkits - covering at least Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH. A lot can change in the water chemistry in a 30 gallon tank (which is actually a pretty small tank) in the one week between your visits to the LFS. I assume you have a hydrometer to tell your S.G.?

You might want to look into brooklynella and velvet, as the black turning white on your clown is concerning.

As for your fish choices (or your LFS's fish choices), a 30 gallon tank is too small for any but the smallest yellow tang, and even then only for a short while. Also, a mandarin fish will likely starve in a tank that size. They are very difficult to train to eat prepared food, and what they do eat is the pod population. A newer tank generally doesn't have a whole lot of pods, and a 30 gallon tank will never be able to produce enough to keep a mandarin alive.

As for your final question about how long you should wait. Get a test kit, and when both the ammonia and nitrites read zero, then you can slowly begin to add fish. If you bought quality live rock, you should have enough die off to fuel the cycle. Otherwise, you can add a bit of food every couple of days to help things along.

Kevin

[Dmoody]

Please do research on tank inhabitants before you make a purchase otherwise you will just keep throwing money down the drain. This hobby requires patience and a lot of preparation. With the 30g tank you need to stick with small reef type inhabitants. The clownfish was a good call they are hardy and do well in smaller type aquariums. The yellow tang was not a good choice they require a lot of swimming room otherwise they may become stressed and extremely aggressive toward all tankmates. Tangs and other surgeons should be one of the last to be added in a peaceful type aquarium. I really don't even want to get started with mandarin dragonettes. Like I said do the research up front before any purchases. Add one small fish after the initial cycle is over and slowly add a couple more a month or two down the road to allow your biological filter of the aquarium catch up so to speak. Don't take this the wrong way this is just my opinion on this matter and trust me everyone will have theirs. Look into the purchase of a hang on protein skimmer. Tunze 9004 isn't a bad choice for that setup.

[ReefLuvr00]

Thank you all for your input it is greatly appreciated and I agree with all that has been said. My LFS will definitely be getting a call from me tomorrow, and not a nice one I might add. I will look into smaller fish for my size aquarium. My actual hopes are to get a 60g or 75g down the road and use my 30 for my QT tank. I will get a test kit tomorrow and start testing my water myself.

Any ideas on how much longer it should take my tank to finish the cycling process...again it has been up and running for a month now.

[ReefLuvr00]

yes the red splotches scared me and it killed me to see him suffer I truly cried. He was my favorite fish in the whole tank...I attached a picture of him for you to see what he looked like before he died...

again thanks for all of the input!

[blackbeltmom]

Originally Posted by ReefLuvr00

Any ideas on how much longer it should take my tank to finish the cycling process...again it has been up and running for a month now.

Since you haven't been testing the water, it is hard to say. Some tanks cycle in a month, others take six to eight weeks.

My Red Sea Max 250 cycled in a little over a month, but I wanted two before I added anything other than clean up crew. Normally as a tank is cycling you can see it also go through algae stages. Have you had any algae or just the ammonia spike?

[ReefLuvr00]

I have started seeing lots of the brown stuff all over the glass in the last week or two now...

[blackbeltmom]

Originally Posted by ReefLuvr00

I have started seeing lots of the brown stuff all over the glass in the last week or two now...

You are not done yet then. Brown comes first, and then you will get some green, possibly even some hair algae.

[ReefLuvr00]

Okay, thanks. Hopefully my other inhabitants of the tank will make it...getting a test kit tomorrow for my water and will def. look into the protein skimmer!

[blackbeltmom]

Do a search for stages of cycling a saltwater tank. You should find some info that will help you. That's what I did. It at least helps you know what to except while you are waiting for your water parameters to level out.

[skidoctor]

I would return the mandarin until your tank is well established. They eat pods- a lot of pods. A new system simply can not provide the amount of pods needed for a mandarin to survive.
I highly suggest finding a new LFS. It's apparent that this one is purely motivated by profit, preying on new enthusiasts with wide eyes. Or the just don't know what they're doing.
Also, research every move you plan to make- I mean every. Not to beat a dead horse, but if you had you would have known you needed to cycle before adding fish. You would have known that a mandarin is not a good choice for a new setup. You would have known that a tang should never be housed in a small tank.
Some of us have done worse. Some of them are on high horses and will chastise you. Everyone will tell you to slow down.

[GroktheCube]

I agree with skidoctor, return the mandarin if you can. If you throw a big enough stink, odds are they'll take it back. If they don't listen over the phone, go in and complain in person. Odds are they don't want other customers hearing about how they took advantage of your lack of knowledge to make a quick buck.

Everyone has made mistakes with this hobby. The important thing is to learn from them. Doing frequent large water changes and making sure the tank remains well aerated is probably the best thing you can do to give the other tank residents a fighting chance.

Those red splotches, especially around the gills along with gulping for air are classic signs of ammonia poisoning.

If you haven't yet, I'd recommend reading the stickies at the top of this forum for new saltwater aquarists. It'll save you a lot of time, money, energy, frustration, and dead livestock in the future.

I'd also not do business with that LFS in the future. They are clearly out for a quick buck. A poor long term business strategy, given most people who start out with a small tank end up moving to a larger one some time in the not too distant future.

[FTDelta]

Originally Posted by ReefLuvr00

Hello, I am new to Saltwater aquariums. Okay about 3 1/2 - 4 weeks ago I went to my LFS and decided to get a 30g Saltwater aquarium. The woman told me no problem and helped me get everything I needed to set it up (Live rock, live sand, Aqueon 50 filter, heater, and large box of instant ocean salt mix ). I then asked her after I got home and got the tank set up how long would it be until I could add fish, her reply "tomorrow as long as the sand has settled and the water is no longer cloudy". Little did I know I should have done much research before I went to my LFS. ( no harsh comments please, i am still a newbie and now know that I need to learn as much as I can before I move forward to keeping this tank). Anyways, I went back the next day and purchased, 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Black saddleback clownfish, 1 Chocolate Chip Starfish, 2 blue leg hermit crabs, and 1 Green Striped Mandarin fish. Tank has been doing great, salinity is at 1.023-1.024 and I bought a 800gph powerhead for the tank as well about two weeks ago. I have been doing 25-30% water changes every two weeks. I have no bought myself a test kit for the water but have been taking a water sample into my LFS once a week and all has been fine, last week Nitrites were a little high but they told me that it would be fine. SOO, this morning I get up and the clownfish was hanging around the top of the tank like gulping for air and the black on him was starting to turn white....did a water change and that didnt help he lost the fight and died Around noon i fed the other fish in the tank some frozen Mysis shrimp and the yellow tang did not eat and usually he is the liveliest fish in the tank. An hour later my tangs fins and face and sides started turning red with splotches everywhere and then he started going to the top of the water, and now he has passed away......

I now know that I should have cycled the tank for atleast 4-6 weeks minimum before adding fish. Is this why they have died? I am thinking ammonia toxicity? Not really sure...I guess my main question is : Is my tank still in the cycling process and how long should I wait before getting any more fish for this tank?

Thanks in advance, all advice is welcome!

Obviously your LFS gave you bad advice and I don't blame you for getting agry. First thing you need to do is (you now know) is cycle your tank.

Ditch the fliter and invest in a skimmer instead.

Now on to your fish:

Tangs do not belong in tanks less than 150 gallons. They're the thoroughbredd of fish species - needs lots of swimming room length wise.

Mandarinfish - not recommended for beginner. They need a matured tank stocked with corepods.

The chocolate star fish is not reef safe and will eat your CUC and corals. Get a serpent starfish instead (Not green - predatory)

The good news - the clownfish is fine for the size tank you have.

In leiu of fish not recommeneded above, here are some good fish to get:

Firefish
Possum Wrasse
Goby

[tphill]

Sorry to hear about your losses. It is sad that lfs's do people that way, but they do.

I agree that you should try and tank the Mandarinfish back.

I also agree with getting a protein skimmer. On my 38g, I'm using a Reef Octopus BH-1000 and it works well. The BH-100 or BH-90 would probably work well also.

Hope everything works out.

[Sk8r]

Get a second cheap tank, take most of the fish back, set the second tank up with no sand, just a floss filter and carbon and heater, get an ammonia test and use it morning and night---put the clowns into that second tank, change the filter floss daily and cross your fingers. If they've been exposed to ammonia they may still die, but hopefully you can do this in time.
Never believe that woman again---and read the how to start a tank sticky at the top of this forum.
Welcome to the hobby. We'll help you get through this. Sorry you've had such a rough start.

[aandfsoccr04]

You should return all the fish you have back to the local fish store and then let your tank cycle. It's a wise idea to invest in a QT tank so that new fish don't get the already existing fish sick. I'd strongly suggest a protein skimmer as well. Make sure you pickup some test kits too. Furthermore, you may want to look for a new local fish store as well. Good luck

[GrantH]

So sorry to hear about the problems you experienced. I agree that you should probably look for another LFS - they should have known that some of the fish need a larger tank. But, don't give up - I have only been in the hobby for three months but it has turned into an addiction that has me laying on the basement floor at midnight looking for new organisms in my refugium. I've been keeping freshwater tanks for many years but had no idea just how interesting, frustrating and rewarding a SW tank could be. All the best.

[MrClam]

Its amazing to me that someone could care so little as to sell you livestock they knew wouldnt live. Its one thing to argue if a 125g is needed for a yellow tang or if a 100g will work, but a 30g? With a mandarin and other livestock all at once in a tank that is 1 day old. Just frustrating how some LFS dont care at all about the lives of the animals.

If I were you I would bring everything back and ask for a refund for both living and dead fish and make a scene if they argue. I feel that people in this hobby are hesitant to complain at the store. But think of it this way, if you went into a car dealership and they told you it would be fine to fill your new diesel truck with regular gas you would be livid when the truck died, probably yelling at every manager you could find and calling the BBB.

[tphill]

If you feel like you would have to make a scene to get the refund, wait till a Saturday when the store is full of other customers, make a good scene with an audience!