Help New Reefer Decide on Lighting

[maxfrenkel19]

Hello everyone,

I am brand new to the saltwater side of the hobby. My tank is 39gallons, so far hosting two small clowns and a 6-line wrasse. I really want to start incorporating beginner's coral (softies I suppose) into my setup, but am completely stuck on lighting.

After days of researching all manner of LEDs, I think I've reached the conclusion that if the LED is worth buying, I can't afford it (although I have seen some threads promoting affordable "LED Flood Lights", can anyone confirm?)

I'm setting my sights lower, but instead of wasting another few days of my life researching the wrong lighting type, I'd like to ask the experts. The order for coral lighting requirements seems to be: soft, lps, sps, anemone. As a beginner, I don't mind sticking to soft, and maybe dabble in some hardier lps. I would like recommendations as to type of lighting that would best serve my needs here (LED, MH,HO, etc). If this list were ranked by cost, or a pro/con were provided, I'd really appreciate it.

Once I know the TYPE of lighting my time is best spent researching, I can go find the right model (but if you do have a model that you've had great experience with, by all means include it).

I really appreciate any help that anyone can provide.

[asonitez]

Sir. My Completely Jaded and Baised Opinion having tried All of the mainstream LED units on the market is.

Go T5. Call ReefGeeks. Give them your tank measurements and pickup a nice Manufacturer Second (which in my experience.. you can't tell what made it a second in the first place..) for like 30% off retail.

You will be able to keep like every coral at any depth in your tank. If you go softies change your bulbs every like 1.5 years.. SPS change them every year.

[sirreal63]

What are the dimensions of the tank?

[Drae]

Go t5. Call it a done deal. If you have a canopy go with a LET retro from reef geek. If not go with an ATI fixture. You won't be sorry with either choice.

[maxfrenkel19]

Fastest Responses I've ever seen on an aquarium forum, reefcentral where have you been all my life!?

asonitez/Drae: sounds like T5 is the consensus, should they be HO or standard? I will call reefgeek as you suggested and talk it through with them.

sirreal: I should know this by heart, but I don't and I'm not at home unfortunately. I know it's 3' wide, and I want to say 18"ish tall.

I won't be able to call reef geeks until I'm off work, so would any of you give me a price estimate assuming I go for a T5 setup? Just ballpark it for me, I'm all excited and need to know!

[MrIcky]

I don't know that 2 people make a consensus. Check out the reefbreeders thread too.

[jaynigz]

Evergrow d120 LED for 140 in group buy or 175 alone.

go the LED route. less hassle with changing bulbs on top of water change/media change/clean up/and the billions of testing you will do on your tank. exaggeration not.

[sirreal63]

For T5 retro, the LET retro is a winning combination, if you have a canopy.
http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/t5-...ofit-kits.html

If you want to try MH and there is no reason not to, this is about as budget friendly as you can get for a decent new to the hobby light.
http://www.aqua-medic.com/products/ocean-light/

I won't say don't consider LED, but instead suggest you look into it a lot harder than traditional lighting which does work, all of the time, without any variables. There is currently a vast array of LED's available and price is not an indicator of how well they will perform.

[maxfrenkel19]

Thanks for the input guys.

I'll check out the Evergrow model jay. As sirreal mentioned, there seem to be a LOT of variables that affect LED quality. Do you have long-term good results with the evergrow model?

sirreal: thanks for the recommendations. The main thing scaring me away from MH is the heat. I've heard that during summer months I'm going to need fans, chillers, etc which is just more cost. Otherwise they seem like a great choice.

One other point...my tank has one of those dividers down the middle of it to support a hood. Are fixtures with a single, central light source (such as the MH or LED examples above) going to be less effective? I suppose I can always just saw the central strip off if it helps...

[ihigh]

reefbreeders value LED is $179 and most of the time if you talk to them they can work out a deal for you. It's better imo than evergrow since its 2yr warranty and most replacement parts, if you ever need, will come within a week as opposed to 2-3weeks.

T5's are good, but in the longrun the bulb costs will be expensive. Most people don't use 50/50 blue/white anymore since some of the purple, blue+, etc are more expensive and better colors/growth.

[sirreal63]

Originally Posted by maxfrenkel19

sirreal: thanks for the recommendations. The main thing scaring me away from MH is the heat. I've heard that during summer months I'm going to need fans, chillers, etc which is just more cost. Otherwise they seem like a great choice.

Heat is a concern with any light source, there is zero difference in 300 watts of MH, 300 watts of T5 and 300 watts of LED. Watts are heat and it all adds up the same, some are spread out more and some are focused in one to two spots but the heat is still the same. How you dissipate that heat is important. Canopies with poor ventilation will trap heat which goes into the tank, it doesn't matter the source of the heat, if it is trapped it will be a problem either for the tank or the light itself.

I live in Central Texas, 110 degree days here are not uncommon in the summer. I use MH and no chiller or even a fan on the tank. Even in summer I have to run my heaters or the tank will get too cool. We keep the temp in the house at about 76 to 78 (depending on if she is having hot flashes or not ) If your climate is not controlled then it can be an issue, heat management is always important. Not having a canopy helps dissipate heat greatly and choosing low wattage pumps also helps keep in tank temps down. Design your system with heat in mind and it gets easier for you to control what temp the tank is at.

[maxfrenkel19]

Originally Posted by sirreal63

Heat is a concern with any light source, there is zero difference in 300 watts of MH, 300 watts of T5 and 300 watts of LED

Interesting, I'm not sure where all the negative feedback comes from then, maybe MH is a good option after all. I certainly like that the one you listed is only $129 , although the bulb is sold separately. I do not have a canopy, but I could look into building one if need be. Could I cover the top of the tank with egg crate and sit the MH on top, or will that be too close to the water (or melt the egg crate)?

ihigh, I will take a look at the reefbuilder LEDs. I still do really like the idea of the LEDs if I can find a proven model at a price I can afford. Have you had success over a long period of time with this model? Sorry for stressing results over time so much, but lighting is going to be a significant investment considering my income, and I don't want to get it wrong.

[sirreal63]

No MH on eggcrate, it will melt. For a 36" tank you are better off with two of those fixtures. The negative feedback comes from people who don't understand heat management. MH in an enclosed canopy that lacks adequate ventilation is the usual culprit.

The Reefbreeders unit is one that bears consideration. It hasn't been out long enough to give a thumbs up to yet and we still haven't seen how it handles coral coloration, this has been an issue especially with blue sps turning purple and LPS changing to a variety of colors. I am not opposed to LED's, I currently use them as supplements to MH. I won't be switching them by themselves for a while, I haven't seen any that don't impact coloration yet and I like my corals with the color they are. I am confident that day will come, but so far it hasn't.

[ihigh]

for reefbreeders, as long as you don't get a 50/50 white and blue, your colors shouldnt drastically change. I had a fixture with some green/red which did a lot better than a neighbor's of mine's blue/white dimmable fixtures from evergrow a year ago. It does honestly make a difference in coral color imo if you get other wavelengths in there.

[maxfrenkel19]

Thanks for the continued input guys. With 2 of the MH fixtures it gets pretty pricey for me, but maybe there is no way to get around dumping a chunk of money into lighting.

However, I'm monitoring a couple of other threads raving over two low-cost LED solutions. One is Taotronics dimmable LED systems...which appears to be just another cheap LED brand, but everyone seems to like them in this thread.

The other is LED Flood lights. This seems to be a different thing altogether, and a lot of the people in the thread are reporting success.

Anyone here have input or experience on either of these solutions?

Here are the threads for reference (sorry they aren't reefcentral )

Taotronics: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ck-239661.html

LED Flood: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...on-186459.html

Thanks

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by maxfrenkel19

Thanks for the continued input guys. With 2 of the MH fixtures it gets pretty pricey for me, but maybe there is no way to get around dumping a chunk of money into lighting.

However, I'm monitoring a couple of other threads raving over two low-cost LED solutions. One is Taotronics dimmable LED systems...which appears to be just another cheap LED brand, but everyone seems to like them in this thread.

The other is LED Flood lights. This seems to be a different thing altogether, and a lot of the people in the thread are reporting success.

Anyone here have input or experience on either of these solutions?

Here are the threads for reference (sorry they aren't reefcentral )

Taotronics: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ck-239661.html

LED Flood: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...on-186459.html

Thanks

You can take it on faith that a MH system, a t5 system, and reefbreeders system can be used successfully. You can argue about color, but things will definitely grow under all those light types. Reefbreeders use pretty common name brand led's that have been used with success by DIY'ers- it's just a non-marquee brand attaching them to a heatsink. Basically I see Reefbreeders as putting together a DIY system for me.

I don't know anything about taotronics, if that's what they're doing it may be fine but the blue/white panels are very out of date. They can grow things but they lack color rendition. I'd stay far away from that floodlight until I had experience under my belt to know what I'm looking at when I see a problem.

[maxfrenkel19]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

I'd stay far away from that floodlight until I had experience under my belt to know what I'm looking at when I see a problem.

You're probably right there...I probably wouldn't know I had a problem until it was too late to save the coral, maybe I should stick with a tried and true method. I may order one of the 20w 6500k LED flood lights for my refugium to grow chaeto, and then I can test coral under it to see if they like it.

I will contact one of these reefbreeders/builders type places and see what they think. I really like the "shimmer" of the mh and led, superficial as it is, but the t5 seem like they are going the cheapest effective option I can get at.

Thanks for everyone's help, I do really appreciate it.

[sirreal63]

Stay far away from those floodlights...read more here.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2250637

[Reefer82]

I've seen tanks with both the taotronics and reefbreeders value fixture. The taotronics being a 50/50 is a little harsh on the color, you can obviously adjust each channel bit like mentioned above its just lacking...something.

The reefbreeders led is much nicer looking IMO. A local club member has had one for several months now and everything in his tank looks great I've even got a couple of his pieces in mine. He's actually about to install a second fixture today so I'd say he's convinced they so the job.

I plan to purchase the Photon 24 from them which is just a "controllable" version of the value fixture.

MH is great as far as growth and appearances but its bad side is heat and total cost of ownership. As mentioned above if you don't manage heat or have it very close to the water you will see temp swings, bulb costs are significant as well since they follow the typical annual timeframe and good bulbs are easily over $60 coupled with higher energy consumption in MOST cases. I didn't click the link above so I have no idea what wattage it is but based on someone reccomending two I amthe assuning at least 350-400 watts.

T5 is nice as well. I currently have and led lit display and a t5 lit frag tank. This is purely because I had the fixture already. I like the look, the vastly different color options for bulbs is nice as well. I don't like bulb replacement cost but it is what it is.

Get what YOU feel is the right thing or you'll always ask yourself what if. Odds are if you are doing whatever seems to be successful for others you'll likely have the same experience.

[maxfrenkel19]

Originally Posted by sirreal63

Stay far away from those floodlights...read more here.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2250637

Well that's an end to that then, I live in an apartment with no renter's insurance. Maybe in the future when/if these become more reliable.

I may be changing my opinion on going as cheap as I can with a good light. It seems that even the cheapest effective light is going to be fairly expensive (for me), so if I'm going to dump a ton of money on this I might as well get something that works 100% and will last a long time (which is the advice all websites give to begin with, but I always think I can beat the system )

Thanks all, I'll be sending an email to get in touch with reefbreeders in the next couple hours.

[sirreal63]

I have begun removing as much of China as I can on my tank. I only have a few pieces left to go. If it isn't of USA or European mfg. it isn't going on my tank. The quality control just isn't there and I have too much invested to tolerate a cheap component failing and taking everything else out.

[MrIcky]

That's a good way to think of it Max. Lights and flow are the minimum entry fee into the hobby, especially on a tank that size. Everything else is somewhere on the 'nice to have but optional' scale.