Experienced Reefers! Help with moving to larger tank!

Tenshoa · 04/02/2013, 11:59 AM

Ok. So I purchased a 65 gallon tank from an acquaintance this past weekend and want to transfer the contents of my 29 gallon Biocube to it.

Contents include:

3 Zoas
1 Nuclear Green Paly
1 Lunar Eclipse Paly
1 Cosmic Cupid Paly
1 Toadstool Leather
1 Hammer Coral
1 Frogspawn
1 Candy Cane (2 polyps)
1 Cynarina
1 Green Star Polyp
2 Pulsing Xenia (was originally one that split)
2 Acans (1 three polyp red and green, 1 two polyp orange)
2 Favites
1 Sun Coral
1 Lobo
2 Duncans
1 Red Goniopora
1 Aussie Elegant
1 Yellow Mushroom
1 Bird Nest
1 Short tentacled Orange tipped Torch
1 Shelf Coral
1 Blasto

Fish include a Clown, Coral Beauty, Purple Firefin, and Royal Gramma.
Cleanup crew includes Yellow Cucumber, Peppermint Shrimp, Scarlet Shrimp, Emerald Crab, Nassarius Snails, Turbo Snails, and Hermit Crabs.

What I purchased:
65 gallon drilled and plumbed tank, tank stand and canopy, 4 T5 bulbs and fixtures, a Bubble Magus NAC6, 30 gallon sump, plumbing, etc, and a Mag 5 pump which I replaced with a new Mag 9.5.

What I have done so far (starting 2 days ago):

Added new Carib Sea Arag-Alive sand (4 bags)
Added about 3-4 cups of sand from Biocube
Added a few pieces of live rock that the previously owner had in there
Added live rock rubble from my biocube chamber into the sump
Added 3-4 capfuls of Microbacter per day
Added 15-20 gallons of water from my biocube
Remaining water mixed with RO/DI and added

Currently I am showing between a .25 and .5 ammonia (same as yesterday). Everything else is normal.

When and how should I transfer the contents of my Biocube without causing a major cycle?

My current plan was to check parameters of the new tank for 2-3 days and if they looked okay, begin adding my Biocube contents. The problem is that I don't know if the ammonia is going to drop before I do this?

The idea is that adding the live rock (an additional 40 lbs) and water from my cube already contains the bio load needed to sustain the livestock and mitigate any cycle that could occur. Mind you, 15-20 gallons of my cube water has already been added, plus an additional 22 gallons or so from the final transfer.

If the ammonia doesn't get any higher in the 65, would adding the Biocube's contents consume the ammonia with the existing bio load?

I ask urgently because I don't want to miss any type of window that I should expect.

My preference is that people who have made a transfer similar to this, help with their experience and results. Not just theoretical.

Thank you in advance.

philosophile · 04/02/2013, 12:13 PM

Everything in this hobby should be done slowly if possible. When I upgraded from a 40g to my 90g, what I did, was moved everything I could into a holding container for a while, as the 90g was set up. I threw in my cleanup crew and some LR from my old setup, as well as sand, to get things going. After about 24 hours of that, I moved in corals, after acclimating them to the water, and then fish. So the entire move took 2 days for me. But unless your new rock in your new tank is fully cycled before hand (which I did for months in a separate vessel) you're almost certainly going to get some kind of cycle going.

Tenshoa · 04/02/2013, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philosophile

Everything in this hobby should be done slowly if possible. When I upgraded from a 40g to my 90g, what I did, was moved everything I could into a holding container for a while, as the 90g was set up. I threw in my cleanup crew and some LR from my old setup, as well as sand, to get things going. After about 24 hours of that, I moved in corals, after acclimating them to the water, and then fish. So the entire move took 2 days for me. But unless your new rock in your new tank is fully cycled before hand (which I did for months in a separate vessel) you're almost certainly going to get some kind of cycle going.

That was kind of my plan. I was able to move my cube so the contents are still in the cube and it is running as it always has. My question is though, with .25-.5 ammonia, is it feasible to begin moving livestock over to the new tank?

coral_lagoon · 04/02/2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philosophile

Everything in this hobby should be done slowly .

This..

Tenshoa · 04/02/2013, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coral_lagoon

This..

I don't disagree with that. But "slowly" is a relative term and my understanding of his post was that his move took 2 days.

No offense but quoting the obvious doesn't answer any of my questions.

tylersarah · 04/02/2013, 01:10 PM

I would not transfer til the ammonia comes down. I moved the contents of a 29 to a 120, I used new sand + 1 C of old sand, the old rock and some new, already cycled rock.

Tenshoa · 04/02/2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylersarah

I would not transfer til the ammonia comes down. I moved the contents of a 29 to a 120, I used new sand + 1 C of old sand, the old rock and some new, already cycled rock.

That's what my plan is. How long did it take you to move?

Theoretically, If I were to replace the existing water in the 65 with the water from the biocube, it would be similar to a 33% water change, but with a bio load from the old tank instead of uncycled water. Would that solve the ammonia problem or worsen it?

Palting · 04/02/2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenshoa

That was kind of my plan. I was able to move my cube so the contents are still in the cube and it is running as it always has. My question is though, with .25-.5 ammonia, is it feasible to begin moving livestock over to the new tank?

No.

No livestock transfer if there is any hint of ammonia. I know that you are thinking the liverock plus whatever is in the water from your biocube will handle the ammonia once transferred, but what if it doesn't? Plus, there is always a certain amount of die-off with any liverock transfer, so that carries a chance of and increased ammonia and a minicycle. If you want it done right, wait for the ammonia to go down to zero.

Once the ammonia is zero, then you can transfer everything in one swoop, IMO. I did this going from a 110 to the current 150. It took about 8 weeks for the new tank to settle before I transferred livestock.

Tenshoa · 04/02/2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palting

No.

No livestock transfer if there is any hint of ammonia. I know that you are thinking the liverock plus whatever is in the water from your biocube will handle the ammonia once transferred, but what if it doesn't? Plus, there is always a certain amount of die-off with any liverock transfer, so that carries a chance of and increased ammonia and a minicycle. If you want it done right, wait for the ammonia to go down to zero.

Once the ammonia is zero, then you can transfer everything in one swoop, IMO. I did this going from a 110 to the current 150. It took about 8 weeks for the new tank to settle before I transferred livestock.

Aha. That's what I was looking for

Is there a general time frame that the ammonia will take? Will adding more live rock from my established tank help? Should I do a water change? And if so, a water change from my established tank?

thegrun · 04/02/2013, 03:01 PM

Are you going to add any more rock to the upsized system? If so the new rock (live or dry) should be in the new tank now so it cycles along with everything else. The time frame involved varies greatly, but on average 4-5 weeks. Adding a little more live rock from your existing system will help speed things along, but I would still plan on 4 weeks. I would not make a water change unless your ammonia levels get over 2ppm, and even then if you don't have any corals on the live rock I would just let nature take its course, higher ammonia levels will equate to larger bacteria levels once the cycle is complete. Water from your existing tank will not speed things up. Its okay to use but don't expect it to help decrease the wait.

Palting · 04/02/2013, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenshoa

Aha. That's what I was looking for

Is there a general time frame that the ammonia will take? Will adding more live rock from my established tank help? Should I do a water change? And if so, a water change from my established tank?

Time frames are quite variable, unfortunately. Some go fast (unusual), some take more time. No way to predict, really. Adding more live rock from your established tank may help, but then the problem is that you would then decrease the biofiltration capability of the old tank and you could jeopardize the livestock there.

Water change during a cycle is controversial. I happen to believe you can do it with no ill effects and maybe some good ones. If you do perform a water change, the ammonia may go down, but you need to make sure it stays down and does not rebound before adding livestock.

There can be a benefit to using old water, but maybe not much as most of the good stuff are attached to surfaces. Again, be careful if you take water from the old tank, as you do not shock the old tank by suddenly replacing all the water with new saltwater.

Just sit back and let things simmer along for a bit. Maybe do a small water change using old tank water to salve the need to do something. Test really frequently. You don't need to do it really frequently, but do it anyway. Better to keep busy doing something harmless than something potentially harmful

.

Tenshoa · 04/02/2013, 08:17 PM

Update: Earlier today, I did a 6 gallon water change on my 65 using cycled water from my established tank and added a larger piece of LR (from my established tank). I also double dosed the MB7 and tested the water again just now. Current ammonia is reading 0.

Am I going crazy or can this be possible? Seems too soon?! If so, is it likely to come back?

Palting · 04/02/2013, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenshoa

Update: Earlier today, I did a 6 gallon water change on my 65 using cycled water from my established tank and added a larger piece of LR (from my established tank). I also double dosed the MB7 and tested the water again just now. Current ammonia is reading 0.

Am I going crazy or can this be possible? Seems too soon?! If so, is it likely to come back?

LOL!!! You are like an expectant father!!

Tanks is not even a week old, right? You can answer you own question by waiting a few days and check ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Alternately, check daily so you can trend it over the next several days.

Keep an eye on your biocube. Check the water parameters there, too, make sure you're not compromising it. I don't wanna say "I told you so" in the future.

Have fun, and good luck!!

Tenshoa · 04/02/2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palting

LOL!!! You are like an expectant father!!

Tanks is not even a week old, right? You can answer you own question by waiting a few days and check ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Alternately, check daily so you can trend it over the next several days.

Keep an eye on your biocube. Check the water parameters there, too, make sure you're not compromising it. I don't wanna say "I told you so" in the future.

Have fun, and good luck!!

LOL! Yeah. Well I'll still be skeptical to add anything for a bit. It is only 3 days old but I used water, sand, and live rock from the established tank during setup as well. I'll want to see these stay this way for at least a few days. I just double checked the tests. Everything is 0, although the nitrates may or may not be literally a "hair" above 0. tough to tell with these colors.

I just thought it was odd that it lowered in that amount of time.

tylersarah · 04/03/2013, 12:40 PM

I added my livestock to the larger tank on day 2. I did not experience much of a cycle though. Go with the saying that always seems to hold true in this hobby that good things happen slowly, bad things happen quickly.

Tenshoa · 04/07/2013, 11:20 AM

I am embarrassed to say that I believe my ammonia reading was showing a little high because of the blue lights in the hood where I was checking it. Didn't think anything of it since my last tank was a Biocube and I didn't have to worry about that so it didn't occur to me. I realized this on accident when I checked the tests on my balcony in the daylight and showed 0 and then a day later when the reading showed .25-.5 again next to the lights.

To be on the safe side, I had my LFS double check the water. She informed me that it should be okay to make the move as long as I used my LR from me established tank.

I went ahead and did so and am happy to say that not only am I on day 5 of stable parameters which are all reading 0, that my corals and fish look happier than they were even in my cube. I have been testing the water every morning and night and not even a smidgen of amm, trate, trite, or phos.

However, the dreaded (and expected) diatom phase has begun. Glad it started now and not later.

Thanks all!

04/02/2013, 11:59 AM	#1
Tenshoa Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,094	Experienced Reefers! Help with moving to larger tank! Ok. So I purchased a 65 gallon tank from an acquaintance this past weekend and want to transfer the contents of my 29 gallon Biocube to it. Contents include: 3 Zoas 1 Nuclear Green Paly 1 Lunar Eclipse Paly 1 Cosmic Cupid Paly 1 Toadstool Leather 1 Hammer Coral 1 Frogspawn 1 Candy Cane (2 polyps) 1 Cynarina 1 Green Star Polyp 2 Pulsing Xenia (was originally one that split) 2 Acans (1 three polyp red and green, 1 two polyp orange) 2 Favites 1 Sun Coral 1 Lobo 2 Duncans 1 Red Goniopora 1 Aussie Elegant 1 Yellow Mushroom 1 Bird Nest 1 Short tentacled Orange tipped Torch 1 Shelf Coral 1 Blasto Fish include a Clown, Coral Beauty, Purple Firefin, and Royal Gramma. Cleanup crew includes Yellow Cucumber, Peppermint Shrimp, Scarlet Shrimp, Emerald Crab, Nassarius Snails, Turbo Snails, and Hermit Crabs. What I purchased: 65 gallon drilled and plumbed tank, tank stand and canopy, 4 T5 bulbs and fixtures, a Bubble Magus NAC6, 30 gallon sump, plumbing, etc, and a Mag 5 pump which I replaced with a new Mag 9.5. What I have done so far (starting 2 days ago): Added new Carib Sea Arag-Alive sand (4 bags) Added about 3-4 cups of sand from Biocube Added a few pieces of live rock that the previously owner had in there Added live rock rubble from my biocube chamber into the sump Added 3-4 capfuls of Microbacter per day Added 15-20 gallons of water from my biocube Remaining water mixed with RO/DI and added Currently I am showing between a .25 and .5 ammonia (same as yesterday). Everything else is normal. When and how should I transfer the contents of my Biocube without causing a major cycle? My current plan was to check parameters of the new tank for 2-3 days and if they looked okay, begin adding my Biocube contents. The problem is that I don't know if the ammonia is going to drop before I do this? The idea is that adding the live rock (an additional 40 lbs) and water from my cube already contains the bio load needed to sustain the livestock and mitigate any cycle that could occur. Mind you, 15-20 gallons of my cube water has already been added, plus an additional 22 gallons or so from the final transfer. If the ammonia doesn't get any higher in the 65, would adding the Biocube's contents consume the ammonia with the existing bio load? I ask urgently because I don't want to miss any type of window that I should expect. My preference is that people who have made a transfer similar to this, help with their experience and results. Not just theoretical. Thank you in advance.

04/02/2013, 12:13 PM	#2
philosophile Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,149	Everything in this hobby should be done slowly if possible. When I upgraded from a 40g to my 90g, what I did, was moved everything I could into a holding container for a while, as the 90g was set up. I threw in my cleanup crew and some LR from my old setup, as well as sand, to get things going. After about 24 hours of that, I moved in corals, after acclimating them to the water, and then fish. So the entire move took 2 days for me. But unless your new rock in your new tank is fully cycled before hand (which I did for months in a separate vessel) you're almost certainly going to get some kind of cycle going. __________________ 90 gallon mixed reef XPS1000SSS skimmer, 2 radions gen 1, tunze osmolator w/ kalk dispenser, 70 lbs pukani, mp40w x2; 1 tomini, 1 clown 2 mandarins. Vinegar dosing, and micro bubble scrubbing.

04/02/2013, 01:10 PM	#6
tylersarah Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 900	I would not transfer til the ammonia comes down. I moved the contents of a 29 to a 120, I used new sand + 1 C of old sand, the old rock and some new, already cycled rock.

04/02/2013, 03:01 PM	#10
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	Are you going to add any more rock to the upsized system? If so the new rock (live or dry) should be in the new tank now so it cycles along with everything else. The time frame involved varies greatly, but on average 4-5 weeks. Adding a little more live rock from your existing system will help speed things along, but I would still plan on 4 weeks. I would not make a water change unless your ammonia levels get over 2ppm, and even then if you don't have any corals on the live rock I would just let nature take its course, higher ammonia levels will equate to larger bacteria levels once the cycle is complete. Water from your existing tank will not speed things up. Its okay to use but don't expect it to help decrease the wait.

04/02/2013, 08:17 PM	#12
Tenshoa Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,094	Update: Earlier today, I did a 6 gallon water change on my 65 using cycled water from my established tank and added a larger piece of LR (from my established tank). I also double dosed the MB7 and tested the water again just now. Current ammonia is reading 0. Am I going crazy or can this be possible? Seems too soon?! If so, is it likely to come back?

04/03/2013, 12:40 PM	#15
tylersarah Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 900	I added my livestock to the larger tank on day 2. I did not experience much of a cycle though. Go with the saying that always seems to hold true in this hobby that good things happen slowly, bad things happen quickly.

04/07/2013, 11:20 AM	#16
Tenshoa Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,094	I am embarrassed to say that I believe my ammonia reading was showing a little high because of the blue lights in the hood where I was checking it. Didn't think anything of it since my last tank was a Biocube and I didn't have to worry about that so it didn't occur to me. I realized this on accident when I checked the tests on my balcony in the daylight and showed 0 and then a day later when the reading showed .25-.5 again next to the lights. To be on the safe side, I had my LFS double check the water. She informed me that it should be okay to make the move as long as I used my LR from me established tank. I went ahead and did so and am happy to say that not only am I on day 5 of stable parameters which are all reading 0, that my corals and fish look happier than they were even in my cube. I have been testing the water every morning and night and not even a smidgen of amm, trate, trite, or phos. However, the dreaded (and expected) diatom phase has begun. Glad it started now and not later. Thanks all!