Ich and how to get rid of it using HypoSalinity.

[bnumair]

Fellow Reefers.
Ich is a hot subject. Commonly found parasite that is more common in Tangs and can wipe entire tanks out in matter of days.
There are only 3 methods known to work on ich and rest are all myths.

1. Copper based medicine
2. Hypo Salinity
3. Tank Transfer

Now I have already written a guide on cupramine and how to use it to rid ich and for a lot of reasons if someone does not want to try copper then Hypo is another solution.
In this guide I will try to explain as much as I can in detail how to perform this treatment with much success.
Please respect this guide as my personal experience and treatment method and NOT by any means a 100% guarantee. This has worked for me many times so please use caution and improvise if something is not mentioned and use this guide as a knowledge and not as set in stone.

First off have a QT setup.
if you don't have a QT setup please look into this link to a thread explaining how a QT is setup. In that thread there are two ways to setup a QT. both ways work the same for Hypo.

Guide to setup a QT:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2195588

If you decide to go with Cupramine here is a thread for that. A simple step by step guide:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...1#post20614751

One u have a QT setup:

I strongly recommend use of a very reliable refractometer and ATO (auto top off system)

Day 1.
Have all parameters in QT equal or very close to DT. (Salinity, Temp mostly)
Day 2.
Transfer all fish from DT to QT, (No Exceptions)
Day 3.
Feed ur fish as normal but not too much to cause ammonia issues in tank.
Have a lot of water made and ready at salinity of 1.009 in case ammonia shows up in tank or if its not a cycled permanent QT.
Day 3 & 4.
Start dropping salinity by taking out saltwater from QT and replacing it with ro/di water several times throughout the day. dropping salinity from 1.025 to 1.009 over 48 hrs.
Note: u can rush this process to 24 hrs if the infection is severe
Day 5 and on:
Once u reach salinity of 1.009 try to keep it there with use of ATO or manual replacement of water due to evaporation. Also keeping temp of the QT at 81F at all times.

Hold 1.009 for 3 weeks. Once u see no ich on the fish and also make sure the breathing has become normal (heavy breathing due to ich in gills) then u can start increasing salinity.
3 weeks is not a set time frame, in some fish it can take longer or even shorter time to rid ich. Best indication is ur fish. I strongly recommend first 3 weeks for sure and then judgment call after observing the behavior of the fish.
Best rule I can provide is 2 weeks of hypo after last ich (including non visible ich in gills) has been rid off.
once u reach the end of the final 2 weeks of hypo observation after riding ich, slowly start to increase salinity.
Note: dropping salinity in short time is not hurtful as increasing. Increasing salinity should be done very slow and over at least 1 week time.
Once the salinity is matched to the main tank then match the temp as well.
After matching parameters you are ready to transfer fish from QT to DT.
The procedure I use is simple.
I take a bucket of DT water and using QT net I catch the fish from QT and place then in Bucket. then using DT net catch them from bucket to DT.

Now this is a procedure I have been following for many yrs and has worked well for me.
Some people ask can I use Prazirpo or Formalin or ammonia reducers in hypo.
Yes I have done all these many time with no ill effects.
Again ur fish are the best indicators of things going good or bad.
Always have freshly made water ready in case u have to perform water changes.
If you don't understand something or are not sure of something please feel free to ask.
There are many capable and experienced member that can guide you in right direction.
Also be open minded about casualties. These are wild animals contained in small tanks, not all procedure go well and complication occur. I know losing a fish is not easy and no one wants their pets to die but reality is even if u followed everything properly there can be a chance of losing fish.
I also recommend performing procedure (any) on a less expensive fish just for practice to get hold on ur treatment habits and unseen circumstances that can occur.

I hope I have provided a good enough procedure for people to follow and wishing everyone Good Luck and Safe reefing.

Note: if there is an error or I left out something or you would like to add on to this please feel free to post.

Thanking You

Mike
Reef Doctor.

[oscarinw]

Dear Mike,
Thanks a lot for the comprehensive guide... I am sure many, including myself, will benefit from this post. I will make sure to refer it gladly when appropriate.
As further reference, how long is it appropriate to leave a system fallow to guarantee the riddance of Crypto?
Thanks again!

[bnumair]

Thank you OSCARINW.
Fallow time to rid ich in main tank is 10 weeks minimum. of course longer the better.
keeping temp in 80's F helps fasten the life cycle of parasite.

[CoralReeForrest]

Mike, awesome right up, hope to never need it, but reality states I will! I couldn't properly figure out how to completely lower the salinity in the QT And this answered my question.

[bnumair]

I need to clarify one point on total term of hypo. Its whatever weeks it takes to rid all ich including unseen from gills PLUS 2 weeks then start raising salinity.

[freefallen4key]

[QUOTE=bnumair;21574449]Fellow Reefers.
whats the copper based way?? what is the best way of the 3? and why

[bnumair]

[QUOTE=freefallen4key;21574683]

Originally Posted by bnumair

Fellow Reefers.
whats the copper based way?? what is the best way of the 3? and why

Cupramine is a copper based medicine. copper kills ich parasite.
here is the thread for a step by step guide to administer that drug.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...1#post20614751

What is the best way out of 3? and why?

good question...
i will try to explain...from a new hobbyist prospective

Three known ways are
1 Tank transfer
2 Copper Meds
3 Hypo Salinity

Tank Transfer:
Most reefers have hardly any room to keep a second tank as qt let alone multiple tanks to perform tank transfer possible along with tons on water made and holding. This methods is not hard but equipment required along with space makes it difficult for an average hobbyist to perform.

Cupramine (copper med):
This method works well but has its own set of complications. First off copper will wipe out 20% of the beneficial bacteria thus causing some ammonia issues and keeping qt cycled. If qt was setup in an emergency and was never cycled then it makes it even more difficult as now as a new hobbyist ur fight ich along with creeping ammonia everyday. once tank is dosed with cupramine u cant use ammonia reducers along with it as it causes chemical reactions and make toxin that will will fish. Copper can be absorbed in rocks or sand nd other equipments in tank thus making dosing extremely difficult as u need to hold steady 0.5 strength other wise its not worth the effort. Once administered then pretty much u can say goodbye to all the equipment rock sand etc as u can never use it again in a regular tank, there are ways around but i am not going to go into detail on that subject.
Also copper shows up on ammonia test kits as ammonia giving reefers a false high ammonia reading making it difficult to understand if there is actual ammonia.

Hypo Salinity:
As any treatment there are always complications of its own nature and kind. Hypo has it own sets of problem but i think its a process that new hobbyist should be able to handle easier than rest.
Ammonia is the only issue in this method along with keeping salinity stable at 1.009. For ammonia u can use reducing chemicals or water changes which is easy for newbies.

Conclusion:
For someone with none to some experience to experts i think hypo is one of the easiest and with least complications.

[gone fishin]

As long as the salinity is strictly maintained.

[bnumair]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

As long as the salinity is strictly maintained.

I agree and i cant inforce this rule enough. Salinity HAS TO BE 1.009 through out the treatment.

[tanked37]

Originally Posted by bnumair

I agree and i cant inforce this rule enough. Salinity HAS TO BE 1.009 through out the treatment.

Or safely lower I suppose. I'm on week two of hypo with a young yellow pyramid butterfly fish. I keep it at 1.008.

Question, my 20g QT tank has a sponge filter, heater, and HoB AquaClear filter. How often (if at all) should I replace any of the three filter medias in the AquaClear (ie the foam insert, activated carbon, biomax insert). They were all new at start of process.

[bnumair]

if ur current filteration is handling the bio load i wouldnt change it during treatment. last it out. u can change in between treatment when there are no fish in qt, just in case u get spikes or mini cycles.

Note: i dont run any filters or sponges or floss. i have media socks full of ceramic rings and i never replace them. they keep up all the time.

[tanked37]

Ok, thanks. I've read on one of the write-ups about ich or somewhere else that filter media should be change daily and I thought that was a little excessive. Not sure what the reason was though. Can ich survive in the filter media? I would think it would die in the low salinity in the filter media or not correct?

[sleepydoc]

2 points to be aware of with hypo:

1. Make sure your refractometer is calibrated. Most refractometers are not perfect along the salinity range (I.e if you calibrate it at 1.025, it may not match at 1.010) instead of calibrating with a 35 ppm solution, you're probably better off calibrating it to 0 with DI water.

2. When you drop the salinity that much, you can't depend in the KH to keep the pH balanced. You may well need to adjust the PH.

[shifty51008]

Dont you still wanna leave the dt fishless for at least 10 weeks to kill of the ich there before putting the fish back in? I only ask cause hypo treatment only takes about 5 weeks ir or so but the ich in the dt will take longer to die off

[tanked37]

Originally Posted by shifty51008

Dont you still wanna leave the dt fishless for at least 10 weeks to kill of the ich there before putting the fish back in? I only ask cause hypo treatment only takes about 5 weeks ir or so but the ich in the dt will take longer to die off

I think hypo in practice takes much longer than the numbers people throw around. It took me 1 week to drop salinity to 1.008, and the 4 week countdown that the fish needs to be in hypo starts AFTER there are no more spots on fish, which can take 1-2 weeks, then it takes a minimum of 1 week to raise salinity back to normal levels and then observation for another 4 weeks at normal salinity levels to make sure the fish is cured.

I estimate the process (done properly) takes app. 12 weeks.
1 + 2 + 4 + 1 + 4

[bnumair]

Fallow time for DT is 10 weeks minimum. and i also agree with tanked37 practically hypo if done properly and observed carefully will take just as long.

[thelostrican]

Don't use hypo on wrasses, especially leopards and any sand burrowing ones...this ones will die suddenly, the rest will usually make it, but most will get lethargic and then die...

[Alaskan Reefer]

Tank transfer is very doable in salt buckets. QT can also be used for some copper while you're waiting for the fallow period to end.

[felix frank]

Originally Posted by bnumair

Fellow Reefers.
Ich is a hot subject. Commonly found parasite that is more common in Tangs and can wipe entire tanks out in matter of days.
There are only 3 methods known to work on ich and rest are all myths.

1. Copper based medicine
2. Hypo Salinity
3. Tank Transfer

Now I have already written a guide on cupramine and how to use it to rid ich and for a lot of reasons if someone does not want to try copper then Hypo is another solution.
In this guide I will try to explain as much as I can in detail how to perform this treatment with much success.
Please respect this guide as my personal experience and treatment method and NOT by any means a 100% guarantee. This has worked for me many times so please use caution and improvise if something is not mentioned and use this guide as a knowledge and not as set in stone.

First off have a QT setup.
if you don't have a QT setup please look into this link to a thread explaining how a QT is setup. In that thread there are two ways to setup a QT. both ways work the same for Hypo.

Guide to setup a QT:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2195588

If you decide to go with Cupramine here is a thread for that. A simple step by step guide:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...1#post20614751

One u have a QT setup:

I strongly recommend use of a very reliable refractometer and ATO (auto top off system)

Day 1.
Have all parameters in QT equal or very close to DT. (Salinity, Temp mostly)
Day 2.
Transfer all fish from DT to QT, (No Exceptions)
Day 3.
Feed ur fish as normal but not too much to cause ammonia issues in tank.
Have a lot of water made and ready at salinity of 1.009 in case ammonia shows up in tank or if its not a cycled permanent QT.
Day 3 & 4.
Start dropping salinity by taking out saltwater from QT and replacing it with ro/di water several times throughout the day. dropping salinity from 1.025 to 1.009 over 48 hrs.
Note: u can rush this process to 24 hrs if the infection is severe
Day 5 and on:
Once u reach salinity of 1.009 try to keep it there with use of ATO or manual replacement of water due to evaporation. Also keeping temp of the QT at 81F at all times.

Hold 1.009 for 3 weeks. Once u see no ich on the fish and also make sure the breathing has become normal (heavy breathing due to ich in gills) then u can start increasing salinity.
3 weeks is not a set time frame, in some fish it can take longer or even shorter time to rid ich. Best indication is ur fish. I strongly recommend first 3 weeks for sure and then judgment call after observing the behavior of the fish.
Best rule I can provide is 2 weeks of hypo after last ich (including non visible ich in gills) has been rid off.
once u reach the end of the final 2 weeks of hypo observation after riding ich, slowly start to increase salinity.
Note: dropping salinity in short time is not hurtful as increasing. Increasing salinity should be done very slow and over at least 1 week time.
Once the salinity is matched to the main tank then match the temp as well.
After matching parameters you are ready to transfer fish from QT to DT.
The procedure I use is simple.
I take a bucket of DT water and using QT net I catch the fish from QT and place then in Bucket. then using DT net catch them from bucket to DT.

Now this is a procedure I have been following for many yrs and has worked well for me.
Some people ask can I use Prazirpo or Formalin or ammonia reducers in hypo.
Yes I have done all these many time with no ill effects.
Again ur fish are the best indicators of things going good or bad.
Always have freshly made water ready in case u have to perform water changes.
If you don't understand something or are not sure of something please feel free to ask.
There are many capable and experienced member that can guide you in right direction.
Also be open minded about casualties. These are wild animals contained in small tanks, not all procedure go well and complication occur. I know losing a fish is not easy and no one wants their pets to die but reality is even if u followed everything properly there can be a chance of losing fish.
I also recommend performing procedure (any) on a less expensive fish just for practice to get hold on ur treatment habits and unseen circumstances that can occur.

I hope I have provided a good enough procedure for people to follow and wishing everyone Good Luck and Safe reefing.

Note: if there is an error or I left out something or you would like to add on to this please feel free to post.

Thanking You

Mike
Reef Doctor.

Mike,

Im thinking about giving the above a try as the ich in my tank is realy starting to irritate me let alone the fish.
My question is if i set up a QT for the fish only can i leave Serpent Stars, Crabs, squat lobsters,corals and the like in the DT or will they carry the ich also, creating the hole thing to start again after returning fish from QT.

Regards

Jason

jason.frank@decke.co.uk

[bnumair]

Hi Jason
Ich needs a fish as host. Inverts and corals will not host ich. So if u leave ur dt fishless for 10 weeks or more ich will probably die out. Probably because I have been reading numbers as high as 12 weeks now. So longer the better. Anyways after performing hypo ur fish should be clean too.
Good luck and safe reefing

[Gilmoreriver]

Why do people not just hypo their main DT tank? I do not have much coral in my tank right now and can easily move it to a frag tank, so was just thinking about dropping the salinity in my main tank but can not find out why people do not do that. Any info would be appreciated.

[bnumair]

Originally Posted by Gilmoreriver

Why do people not just hypo their main DT tank? I do not have much coral in my tank right now and can easily move it to a frag tank, so was just thinking about dropping the salinity in my main tank but can not find out why people do not do that. Any info would be appreciated.

Hypo can wipe all inverts all corals and also damage biofilter/bacterial colony. throwing all parameters and conditions against saltwater principles.
also its best to treat in qt to eliminate all other factors like rock sand nitrate phos issues hydrogen sulfide gas etc just to point a few.
a bare tank with only water doesnt have much to interfere in treatment.

note: all that die off from rock/sand and pods etc will cause major ammonia issues.

[Gilmoreriver]

Ok thanks for the response. That all makes sense.

[mpsti05]

This was a good read on hypo http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...linity/OST.htm I literally just lost all my fish from a fight with ich, came in on a flame angel I introduced two weeks ago, within a few days white spots everywhere, died, spread to both my 2yr old clowns blue spot jaw and Midas Blenny, I was in disbelief this crap was happening. Im pretty sure I'll be tearing down my current tank and setting up my new one but I might do what was suggested in that article and run the tank at 1.017 for awhile and see how that goes with my Duncan colony and giant gbta. Felt like a kick in the stomach.

[Zedzo]

I totally agree with bnumair, I think that's exactly what happen to me. I have such a dilemma on my hands at the minute and could really use some advice from you guys.

I started up a QT, I'm very new to the hobby, no more than a year or so in. My QT is 25G, has about 10kg of live rock and a Tunze internal filter.

I dropped the salinity down to 1.009 over a period of a week and the fish just became super distressed, I checked my nitrate levels which had jumped from zero to 80ppm within a day. Was this because of the die off from the rock? Or was it because of overzealous water changes? I was doing about 20% water changes daily, replacing with RODI water.

I had no choice but to put them back in the ich infested DT until i fixed the issue, no surprises they got visible ich again.

A couple of weeks in I've got the water parameters back to reasonable levels in my QT with nitrates about 2.5ppm and zero ammonia. I've decreased the salinity gradually which is now reading 1.020 and will continue to decrease it gradually over the next week or so.

I'm worried that the same thing will happen again with a drop in salinity causing a nitrate spike and fish needing to undergo 'emergency evacuation' from the QT.

May I ask if you guys could advise me as to how best to deal with this issue. Should I take the rock out and then drop the salinity, and of course if I remove the biological filtration ammonia levels will rise. And how often should I be doing water changes to ensure my water parameters don't go crazy. I admit I was feeding my fish a lot, sometimes 3 times a day because the LFS advised me to make sure they were well fed so that they could fight off the ich, could this also have contributed to the rising nitrates?

Thanks for all your comments.