Planning Flow Through Sump...

Heelfiend · 06/07/2013, 09:59 AM

My DT is going to be a 120g and my sump will be a 29g. I have an a main drain and an emergency drain on the upper back corners of the tank with 1" PVC each. What GPH return pump should I be looking at?

At first I was thinking the 951 GPH Sicce, but I think that will overpower the drain potential of my main overflow since it is only using a 1" PVC pipe.

cilyjr · 06/07/2013, 10:24 AM

You won't get more than 600 gph through 1 inch. More likely if you have elbows you will see 450 to 550. Unless its a siphon.

Donkeykong · 06/07/2013, 11:32 AM

Is that 29g going to be big enough to handle all the overflow when you turn the return pump off?

Heelfiend · 06/07/2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkeykong

Is that 29g going to be big enough to handle all the overflow when you turn the return pump off?

Yes. The hole is 3.25 inches from the top. 48" x 24" ~ 16-17g.

Is 600GPH through the sump enough for my system?

Donkeykong · 06/07/2013, 12:08 PM

600 gph is a 5x turnover rate, which is about right were I aim for. Don't forget to factor in head loss and loss because of plumbing. I like the adjustable pumps, that way if it is a little to much you can dial it back, of course this can also be accomplished on any pump by putting a ball valve on the return.

So if you are going to have 17g drain then the sump can only run at 8" max of water so you have room for that 17g. Not trying to beat a dead horse but you are going to be toeing the line of max capacity with that sump and display tank.

Heelfiend · 06/07/2013, 12:19 PM

I am new to this so thanks for the feedback. The only way a 29g wouldn't be sufficient is if the return pump fails, correct? In that case, wouldn't the remaining water > 17g that was drained just sit over the baffles? There is still 29g worth of room for water (less the baffles) so it still should never flood, right?

crsswift70 · 06/07/2013, 12:26 PM

no.. basically, while running you'll have maybe 115 gallons in the main tank and 20 in the lower at all times. If the power goes out, the top tank will drain down in to the lower until it gets past the overflows. I think you said you estimated 17 gallons. Now you have 98 in your top tank, 29 in your bottom and 8 on the floor

. Levels may be off a little, but you get the idea i think. For this to work, the water level in your lower will have to be no more than 12 gallons.. which will mean the lower tank must be less than half full when running.

Heelfiend · 06/07/2013, 12:28 PM

Okay so what size would I need? A 40g breeder? The reason I was going with the 29g was because that was my old tank that I had years back and just have it laying around.

E Rosewater · 06/07/2013, 12:29 PM

The sump is likely going to be at least half full with water while you're running. So it likely will overflow if the pumps shut down. Unless I'm missing something.

I have two Sicce 3.5s (714gph) for returns, getting right around 800gph turnover, at that rate my 1 inch bulkhead needs to be ball valved to run consistently at a full siphon.

06/07/2013, 09:59 AM	#1
Heelfiend Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 172	Planning Flow Through Sump... My DT is going to be a 120g and my sump will be a 29g. I have an a main drain and an emergency drain on the upper back corners of the tank with 1" PVC each. What GPH return pump should I be looking at? At first I was thinking the 951 GPH Sicce, but I think that will overpower the drain potential of my main overflow since it is only using a 1" PVC pipe.

06/07/2013, 10:24 AM	#2
cilyjr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,683	You won't get more than 600 gph through 1 inch. More likely if you have elbows you will see 450 to 550. Unless its a siphon.

06/07/2013, 11:32 AM	#3
Donkeykong Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Grover Beach CA Posts: 1,847	Is that 29g going to be big enough to handle all the overflow when you turn the return pump off?

06/07/2013, 12:08 PM	#5
Donkeykong Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Grover Beach CA Posts: 1,847	600 gph is a 5x turnover rate, which is about right were I aim for. Don't forget to factor in head loss and loss because of plumbing. I like the adjustable pumps, that way if it is a little to much you can dial it back, of course this can also be accomplished on any pump by putting a ball valve on the return. So if you are going to have 17g drain then the sump can only run at 8" max of water so you have room for that 17g. Not trying to beat a dead horse but you are going to be toeing the line of max capacity with that sump and display tank.

06/07/2013, 12:19 PM	#6
Heelfiend Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 172	I am new to this so thanks for the feedback. The only way a 29g wouldn't be sufficient is if the return pump fails, correct? In that case, wouldn't the remaining water > 17g that was drained just sit over the baffles? There is still 29g worth of room for water (less the baffles) so it still should never flood, right?

06/07/2013, 12:26 PM	#7
crsswift70 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Spanish Fort, AL Posts: 1,032	no.. basically, while running you'll have maybe 115 gallons in the main tank and 20 in the lower at all times. If the power goes out, the top tank will drain down in to the lower until it gets past the overflows. I think you said you estimated 17 gallons. Now you have 98 in your top tank, 29 in your bottom and 8 on the floor . Levels may be off a little, but you get the idea i think. For this to work, the water level in your lower will have to be no more than 12 gallons.. which will mean the lower tank must be less than half full when running.

06/07/2013, 12:28 PM	#8
Heelfiend Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 172	Okay so what size would I need? A 40g breeder? The reason I was going with the 29g was because that was my old tank that I had years back and just have it laying around.

06/07/2013, 12:29 PM	#9
E Rosewater Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 846	The sump is likely going to be at least half full with water while you're running. So it likely will overflow if the pumps shut down. Unless I'm missing something. I have two Sicce 3.5s (714gph) for returns, getting right around 800gph turnover, at that rate my 1 inch bulkhead needs to be ball valved to run consistently at a full siphon.