New to the hobby, Biocube or purchase individual items?

[jtp79]

First off, I have zero experience in the saltwater hobby. I do have a koi pond outside and also a 3000 gallon indoor tank that my koi stay in for the winter. I have been interested in a saltwater tank for years and am in the mood again. Just looking for some info. I have been looking at some of the biocube tanks but I know with koi keeping, the all in one filters are for sure not the way to go. I do have the ability to build DIY filters or anything as I have built all of my filtration for my tanks. I dont know if that is an option or not.

I know I want to keep fish but the coral has really caught my eye lately too. Just looking for ideas for a beginnner setup.

Thanks in Advance,
Jeremy

[CKI]

my beginner set up consist of a 75gal tank with a 30gal sump... might as well do it right the first time so ya dont regret nothing later... just the way i see it.. Good luck to ya!

[Mussin]

The AIO (all in one) cubes are nice and less complex as a sump system especially for the 1st timer.


Jeremy

[jtp79]

Originally Posted by Mussin

The AIO (all in one) cubes are nice and less complex as a sump system especially for the 1st timer.


Jeremy

Do they maintain the water quality well enough to keep corals? and the water movement?

[CKI]

Originally Posted by Mussin

The AIO (all in one) cubes are nice and less complex as a sump system especially for the 1st timer.


Jeremy

I agree, but personally i can not see spending 570ish on a 29gal cube...thats what i have into my entire set up... but to each their own .. go with what ya feel comfortable with!!!!

[Gary Majchrzak]

given your background info I would definitely steer you to purchasing individual items.

Although similar, reefkeeping is a lot different than keeping Koi or freshwater fishes.

I would recommend you start with a 48" long x 18" footprint aquarium (75 or 90 gallon) and purchase / fabricate your own system.

GOOD LUCK!

[jtp79]

Originally Posted by CKI

my beginner set up consist of a 75gal tank with a 30gal sump... might as well do it right the first time so ya dont regret nothing later... just the way i see it.. Good luck to ya!

I was thinking I probably shouldnt go larger than a 55 gallon. What all is a must to have to get into the saltwater hobby? Maybe a list,,,I know tank, lights, pump and some type of filter? Is the sump part of the filter system? Or just a place to hold pump water to make the volume of the system larger?

[jtp79]

Originally Posted by Gary Majchrzak

given your background info I would definitely steer you to purchasing individual items.

Although similar, reefkeeping is a lot different than keeping Koi or freshwater fishes.

I would recommend you start with a 48" long x 18" footprint aquarium (75 or 90 gallon) and purchase / fabricate your own system.

GOOD LUCK!

That is possible for sure. I have no problem with plumbing parts and filter systems. I am guessing this is similar in some way but on a smaller scale.

[jtp79]

A few pics of my indoor setup while I was building it and completed. Its not much to look at but does the job nicely.

[CKI]

After looking at those pics ... I would def go with a 75-90gal to start...impressive job!!!

[Meanie]

I started with a 30G, and a 10G sump. I am currently in the process of building a 55G setup with a 20G sump. Here is a list of items you may need.

1. tank (minimum 30G) anything less gets difficult to recover from issues in the tank.
2. Lights - if you are just doing fish and rock, you don't need anything special. If you are doing coral, look at LED, T-5 or the like. It seems everyone is moving toward LEDs.
3. Rock - to save some cash get a few pounds of live rock and do lace/dry rock for the rest. I was told between a pound and 1.5lbs per gallon.
4. Testing supplies - Nitrate, Nitrite, PH, ammonia, Salinity would be the fist ones you need while cycling. Then depends on what you decide to keep in the aquarium.
5. Pumps - Power heads, need to provide current in the display tank.
6. Skimmer - get one 1.5 to 2x your water capacity.
7. Heater - no explanation needed.

figure out what size display tank you are going with, If you are doing a sump I would get the tank drilled, so make sure the DT is all glass. you'll need some plumbing to get the water from the DT to the sump, then a return pump to get the water back up to the DT after going through the skimmer and heater. Basic outline and you'll need more gear depending on what you are planning on keeping. Good Luck.

[Meanie]

The sump is for a few reasons. it provides additional water for the system, it keeps the skimmer, heater, reactors etc out of the display tank, the water in the DT stays constant and evaporation occurs in the sump. I provides a place to top off water and gives it a chance to mix before hitting the DT, it also provides a place for dosing if needed. There are many benefits. I am building my new 20 gallon sump as a sump/refugium. google refugium if you don't know what they are....

[jtp79]

Originally Posted by Meanie

The sump is for a few reasons. it provides additional water for the system, it keeps the skimmer, heater, reactors etc out of the display tank, the water in the DT stays constant and evaporation occurs in the sump. I provides a place to top off water and gives it a chance to mix before hitting the DT, it also provides a place for dosing if needed. There are many benefits. I am building my new 20 gallon sump as a sump/refugium. google refugium if you don't know what they are....

thank you

[BlindZide]

Welcome to RC! Very nice job building that Koi tank! I would say due to that I would buy and build. You seem to have a knack for it anyway and you could end up saving yourself some money.

I wouldn't do a 55g. I recently went from a 30g to a 75g. Initial thought was a 55g but was steered clear due to reduced width which would make it insanely hard to rockscape. I would shoot for a 40g Breeder or a 75g/90g.

[dkeller_nc]

I guess my comment after looking at that indoor koi pond is "holy crap!". Not many of us would make that sort of commitment for overwintering fish.

This hasn't been explicitly explained in this thread, but here is why "starting small" with an all-in-one isn't a good idea for your first saltwater tank, much less your first reef tank:

You still need to buy all of the "base" equipment - testing kits, water purification, etc... And the price for all of that stays about the same whether one has a 20 gallon nano or a 300 gallon monster.

It's considerably more difficult to keep water parameters stable in a smaller tank. Just one example is that since the surface area to volume is so much larger with a small tank, evaporation will cause a much faster rise in salinity.

You may want to read this thread for more about this:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2279642

As someone that also kept large freshwater tanks b/f getting his first reef, I can tell you that there's quite a bit of sticker shock that goes into purchasing all of the components for a basic setup, whether in-tank or external supplies.

If you really, really don't want to "go off the cliff" as far as an all-consuming passion the way most of us have in this hobby, a smallish "all in one" setup can work for you. But - you will have to be very, very diligent in reading and asking questions.

If you want to look at "all-in-ones" that are a bit more flexible than the biocubes, you might want to look at the tanks by Innovative Marine. They are configured so that you're not forced into one lighting option (for example).

[Gary Majchrzak]

role reversal time: experienced reefkeeper asks the newbie!

why ask (specifically) BIOCUBE vs. purchase individual items?

how/where did you come up with Biocube ... on who's recommendation?

[footballdude2k3]

Personally, I would look on craigslist and wait for a good deal that you like. I got my 125 off of there for much cheaper than new, and now I am looking for a frag tank too. It kind of sucks, but a lot of people have no idea what they are getting themselves into with a saltwater tank, so there are people willing to take biiiig losses to recoup anything.

[jtp79]

The biocube came up because I found one on Craigslist and also seen one at a shop in Chattanooga yesterday. I looked at them briefly online last night. I know with koi filters that most of the all in ones are limited in certain areas. This may not be the case with a saltwater tank.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Some people don't get the "coral thing" and could care less about anything but marine fishes. Corals require a finer degree of filtration than many fishes.
In all honesty, DIY is the best and most cost effective way to go about setting up a reef aquarium. It can be daunting at first, but information nowadays is much more readily available than when I first got into this!

In either case, given the details you provided about yourself I would skip the Biocube and start making yourself a list.

The first step is to decide exactly what marines you want to have in an aquarium. A 48" long x 18"wide x 20" high 75 gallon aquarium is usually regarded as THE best size first reef aquarium for many many reasons.

[BlindZide]

My LFS has a AIO nano that looks cool, but entirely too small for my taste.

I would stick to DIY and build it up yourself. Easiest way to do it AND you can do what you want and are not limited to what you can have in the tank. AIO units tend to fit what they want to fit in there so if there is something you wanna add equipment wise you would have to rig something up.

[pmark]

If you want to have something around 55 gallons, I would stay away from the standard 55g tank and go with the 40g breeder or the 57 gallon tanks. They have the same foot print but the 57 is a little taller

[jtp79]

That's the problem. I don't know what would be involved in a list. Lets say I go with a 75 gallon tank. What items are needed to complete a tank. I know a sump and return pump, I know lights, I know a protein skimmer but I don't know anything about any brands. Can someone give suggestions on brands of each item to look at? I would rather not spend a fortune initially but I know it won't be cheap.

[BlindZide]

My signature is my 75g build.

Tank - 75g Tank with a custom stand built for sump
Sump - 20g Standard with 4 baffles
Skimmer - Reef Octopus NWB150
Overflow - CPR CS50
Return Pump - Mag 5 w/ball valve to reduce output to keep up with overflow
Lights - Odyssea Quad T5HO 2 10,000K, 2 Actinic, and 8 Lunar LEDs. Built in timer and 3 built in cooling fans
Mag Float glass scrubber
80lbs of Live Rock
2 Koralia Nano 425s on a SmartWave controller
1 Maxi-Jet 400 in laminar mode @ 500GPH
JBJ Auto Top-Off w/Toms Aquatics Aqua Lifter
I used 3/4" clear flexible tubing to run plumping so I can see if there is a clog
eShopps return jet

[ag09g]

I had a bio cube and really liked it. My water quality was always excellent, and yes I had healthy and happy growing corals . It was super easy to set up and worked straight out of the box. I did end up adding a protein skimmer and an additional powerhead in tank for more flow, but these are things you'll end up buying regardless. The only issue is that they're small, and that's going to limit the livestock you can have, and, as the others have mentioned, smaller tanks are more difficult to keep stable.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally Posted by jtp79

That's the problem. I don't know what would be involved in a list. Lets say I go with a 75 gallon tank. What items are needed to complete a tank. I know a sump and return pump, I know lights, I know a protein skimmer but I don't know anything about any brands. Can someone give suggestions on brands of each item to look at? I would rather not spend a fortune initially but I know it won't be cheap.

do you want to keep corals or not?
Corals require better filtration and more intense lighting than a marine fish only aquarium.