Lost power !

[fltekdiver]

Thanks, this thread has been very helpful !

Things to get :

Battery powered aerator
Grounding probes, need 2 , one for sump, one for DT
APC battery back up, 1500 watt
Generator 10,000 watt 4- stroke

[Jeff000]

Originally Posted by fltekdiver

Thanks, this thread has been very helpful !

Things to get :

Battery powered aerator
Grounding probes, need 2 , one for sump, one for DT
APC battery back up, 1500 watt
Generator 10,000 watt 4- stroke

I do not recommend ground probes.
Moving salt water will always have a different potential than what you call ground. This is fine, by making a path to ground you create current. Current is bad.

[fltekdiver]

Ohh, ok, thank you

Someone mentioned earlier getting ground probes

Thanks

[Jeff000]

Originally Posted by fltekdiver

Ohh, ok, thank you

Someone mentioned earlier getting ground probes

Thanks

Grounding probes are hotly debated, there is lots of information to read if you search.

Being an electrician, I personally do not agree with Grounding probes.

[dkeller_nc]

Fltekdiver: There seems to have been some confusion when you were looking at the specs for the UPS you mentioned. From APC's website, the unit you linked to will run for about an hour at a 100 watt draw, and that's about it.

What you have to realize is that a "1500 VA" UPS only tells you the full load power that it can support, not how long it will run. You can easily have a 1500VA UPS that will run for 2 minutes, and a 1500VA UPS that will run for 5 days.

Generally speaking, computer UPSs do not have a lot of energy density, so they won't run for long. That's not true for the really big UPSes designed for server rooms, but they are thousands of dollars.

If you want an auto fail-over battery system, you need to purchase an inverter-charger with an auto kickover switch. You can get one from theinverterstore.com, or from West Marine, among other places. You then need to purchase one or more deep-cycle trolling motor batteries to attach to the inverter-charger. That setup will run for days.

[fltekdiver]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Fltekdiver: There seems to have been some confusion when you were looking at the specs for the UPS you mentioned. From APC's website, the unit you linked to will run for about an hour at a 100 watt draw, and that's about it.

What you have to realize is that a "1500 VA" UPS only tells you the full load power that it can support, not how long it will run. You can easily have a 1500VA UPS that will run for 2 minutes, and a 1500VA UPS that will run for 5 days.

Generally speaking, computer UPSs do not have a lot of energy density, so they won't run for long. That's not true for the really big UPSes designed for server rooms, but they are thousands of dollars.

If you want an auto fail-over battery system, you need to purchase an inverter-charger with an auto kickover switch. You can get one from theinverterstore.com, or from West Marine, among other places. You then need to purchase one or more deep-cycle trolling motor batteries to attach to the inverter-charger. That setup will run for days.

Thanks, You just saved me $200 bucks. I have their 500 watt battery back up,. and it lasted 20 minutes yesterday. I thought I needed a new battery

So I hooked up an inverter to my truck, and ran the power heads and return pump off my truck, using a inverter

I can pick up a 12V deep cycle battery from West Marine, for under $100 bucks

I'll look into that

Biggest problem I have, is I run everything through a APEX

If I'm not home, and theirs a power outage , how does the APEX know not to turn on the lights etc?

[Jeff000]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

If you want an auto fail-over battery system, you need to purchase an inverter-charger with an auto kickover switch. You can get one from theinverterstore.com, or from West Marine, among other places. You then need to purchase one or more deep-cycle trolling motor batteries to attach to the inverter-charger. That setup will run for days.

Hmm, you are correct and that site is an excellent find. Costco is the best source for deep cycle batteries, mostly because they have an awesome warranty.

I could have sworn I saw 90ah on that one ups, but I can't find that now. Hmm.

[fltekdiver]

How long will you get a few hundred watts running off a deep cycle battery?

My return is 65 watts,. and 2 power heads are 25 watts each

skimmer is 25 watts

I'd just run the return pump and skimmer, and one power head = 115 watts

[unreal45]

Deep cycles sound like the way to go, I know they last a really long time.

[Jeff000]

Originally Posted by fltekdiver

How long will you get a few hundred watts running off a deep cycle battery?

My return is 65 watts,. and 2 power heads are 25 watts each

skimmer is 25 watts

I'd just run the return pump and skimmer, and one power head = 115 watts

Depends on the amp hour rating of the battery.

[unreal45]

You could wire the batteries in parallel, if you needed more run time.

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by fltekdiver

How long will you get a few hundred watts running off a deep cycle battery?

My return is 65 watts,. and 2 power heads are 25 watts each

skimmer is 25 watts

I'd just run the return pump and skimmer, and one power head = 115 watts

This is an approximation, but it will get you close. A typical battery will supply power at 12 volts. So a 90 amp-hour battery will supply 90 amps at 12 volts for one hour, 9 amps at 12 volts for 10 hours, etc...

Figure out the total watts that need to be supplied, then divide that by 12 volts to figure out the total amp draw from the battery.

For example, 50 watts total draw = 4.2 amps.

The battery will last, at most:

total battery time = amp-hour rating/total amp draw @ 12 volts

In this example, a 90 amp-hour battery will last about 21 hours if it's supplying 50 watts. Realize, however, that there are conversion losses in converting the battery's 12 volt power to 120 VAC, you can't completely discharge a battery, discharging a battery at full load will get it very hot, which drops it's storage capacity, etc....

So this calculation will give you a rule-of-thumb when figuring out how many batteries you wish to hook up, what equipment you wish to run, etc...

In answer to your question about the apex, you will simply have to either run the pumps you wish to backup separately from the Apex, or you will have to have a dedicated power bar that is run off of the battery/inverter setup.

[Spyderturbo007]

Why not something like this cheap little generator from Harbor Freight. If you're like me, you really don't care about anything other than your tank when the power goes out. I'm not sure how much of your tank something this small will run, so you might want to ask an electrician like Jeff000.

I bought one from Lowes when I had a power outage. I think it's 7,000 watts and I think I paid around $350 for it. I didn't buy anything high end, but I really only care about running my tank.

[dkeller_nc]

Generally speaking, any portable generator will run just about any reef tank, with the possible exception of a large tank with metal halide lighting and the smallest of portable generators.

To be as fail-tolerant as possible, one would want an inverter/charger hooked to a couple of trolling motor batteries for instant-on uninterruptible power, and a generator available for long power outages for situations like a hurricane or an ice storm. One can go even further and install a natural-gas or propane-powered whole-house generator with a fail-over transfer switch. Such a generator will run indefinitely if it's powered by piped natural gas, or a few days to a week if it's powered by a large propane tank.

[Jeff000]

Originally Posted by Spyderturbo007

Why not something like this cheap little generator from Harbor Freight. If you're like me, you really don't care about anything other than your tank when the power goes out. I'm not sure how much of your tank something this small will run, so you might want to ask an electrician like Jeff000.

I bought one from Lowes when I had a power outage. I think it's 7,000 watts and I think I paid around $350 for it. I didn't buy anything high end, but I really only care about running my tank.

The big issue its that is you need a generator that will auto start when the power is off. And you'll need an auto transfer switch. Probably cost you 2500 at least.

4 deep cycle batteries might be your best bet, get a little fancy and put a 200w solar charger on it and you're golden.

[Fishmommy]

Would it be possible to run a portable genny but also employ battery backup for the powerheads in the case of a failure when you are not there? I am making these decisions also right now so this is a useful discussion for me...thanks to all participants!

[fltekdiver]

LoL, yup fishmommy, I thought I had it all covered with a APC battery backup for $150, their graph shows 100 watts will last for 100 hours, lol, It last a hour, go figure

Buying 4 deep cycle batteries, and replacing them every few years can get costly. I've owned a ton of boats. And am all to familiar with deep cycle batteries.

I'm thinking, put one deep cycle battery next to the tank for back up, but for one power head? I'm not going to run my pump. Skimmer, etc all through it, as why would I bother to have a Apex then

So the Apex notifies me theirs a power outrage, and I'm not around. Lets say I'm at work, and it will be 8 hours before I can get home, to turn on a generator

That's the question. If I seperate one power head, and leave it on a deep cycle battery, how will it know when to switch over?

Buying a generator also has issues. I loose power every few years, more like every 5+ years between and when I do, it's only for at most 12 hours. I live in a deed restricted community, so the generator would need to be under 75db, to run all night, and also how do you store a generator for years on end, without gas going bad, then start it up in 5 years and expect it to start right up.

I know if my boat sits more then a few months, I have to go through the whole fuel system again

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by fltekdiver

That's the question. If I seperate one power head, and leave it on a deep cycle battery, how will it know when to switch over?

Buying a generator also has issues. I loose power every few years, more like every 5+ years between and when I do, it's only for at most 12 hours. I live in a deed restricted community, so the generator would need to be under 75db, to run all night, and also how do you store a generator for years on end, without gas going bad, then start it up in 5 years and expect it to start right up.

The switch over to battery power from line voltage AC is taken care of by inverter/chargers with automatic voltage-sensing switches. Essentially, you're putting together a UPS with separated electronics and batteries, except that typical modified sine wave inverter/chargers do not have voltage conditioning circuitry in them (so called "line interactive" types of UPSes). Here is an example from the inverter store (this is just an example, and a high wattage, pure sine wave example at that - there are much less expensive ones out there):

http://www.theinverterstore.com/1000...r-charger.html

From the standpoint of quiet generators, the small Hondas are exceptionally quiet and very reliable presuming that you add gasoline stabilizers to the fuel, but they are very expensive compared to the basic generac models.

[Spyderturbo007]

Originally Posted by fltekdiver

So the Apex notifies me theirs a power outrage, and I'm not around. Lets say I'm at work, and it will be 8 hours before I can get home, to turn on a generator

That's the question. If I seperate one power head, and leave it on a deep cycle battery, how will it know when to switch over?

My current setup is a Vortech with a battery backup. The battery backup will run 1 pump at 25% for up to 72 hours. Which is plenty of time for me to get home and hook up the generator.

I know the pumps and the battery backup are expensive, but it's a small investment for piece of mind and the safety of your pets. Well, at least they are pets to me.

[fltekdiver]

So What your saying is, run one of my power heads through a battery back up