Food thawed for several days - dangerous to feed?

MellowReefer · 10/26/2013, 01:41 PM

So as bad things always happen at the worst possible time, the week after I spent 100+ on frozen food online our refrigerator broke so it wasn't cold enough to keep it frozen. Now its all been thawed for 2-3 days (kept about 40-45 degrees) We just got our new fridge. Should I bother to re-freeze it all and see if it seems okay and if the fish eat it I can use it? Or could it make the fish sick/kill them and it's better not to risk it? I know it can be dangerous for humans to eat fish/meat left unfrozen for too long, but do fish have the same problem with bacteria in food?

Megatrev62 · 10/26/2013, 01:56 PM

Just had a large frozen flat pack of Mysis shrimp on a fish order the other day. A total fiasco with the airline and we could not pick up the fish until 10 hours after they landed. Luckily all the fish made it.In the meantime the Mysis pack was completely thawed out.It was shipped without an ice pack because of the fish. I told them to send it on. Room temperature when I finally got it. I just put it straight in the freezer. Feeding it and the fish are devouring it. I think I would use it. Fish east all kinds of dead things in the ocean and the food you describe wasn't near room temp.

campos · 10/26/2013, 02:15 PM

what type of food is it? If there are any worms, blood worms especially, I definitely would not use.

cloak · 10/26/2013, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MellowReefer

So as bad things always happen at the worst possible time, the week after I spent 100+ on frozen food online our refrigerator broke so it wasn't cold enough to keep it frozen. Now its all been thawed for 2-3 days (kept about 40-45 degrees) We just got our new fridge. Should I bother to re-freeze it all and see if it seems okay and if the fish eat it I can use it? Or could it make the fish sick/kill them and it's better not to risk it? I know it can be dangerous for humans to eat fish/meat left unfrozen for too long, but do fish have the same problem with bacteria in food?

I don't think you'll having any problems using it. If it was kept at 40-45 degrees, that's like keeping it in the refrigerator as opposed to the freezer. No big deal.

MellowReefer · 10/27/2013, 02:05 AM

No worms. I had I think 8 packs of the Hikari mysis, a few PE mysis, some mix stuff (prime reef,mega marine, etc.) and nutramar ova. The open packets where it's not individual cubes I tossed out and the other ones I re-froze. Hopefully it's okay, I fed one today and it didn't smell or anything and the fish ate as they usually do. I know for human food the rule is not to let it get over 40 degrees or bacteria will multiply, and I know the fridge was up to 45 at one point between trips to get ice.

billdogg · 10/27/2013, 09:39 AM

If your frozen food was thawed for several days would you eat it???? If the answer is yes, then go ahead and use it. If you prefer to avoid food poisoning, toss it.

Av8bluewater · 10/27/2013, 09:48 AM

If you're postitive it was in a refrigerated environment like 40-45º then it should be ok. Smell it first. For some reason I'm getting a feeling the temp may have got higher after 3 days. Sounds risky.

MellowReefer · 11/04/2013, 11:41 AM

I have an update. I contacted Hikari (most of my food was theirs) and this is what they said:

"Thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your support of
our products. We recommend that you destroy this food as once it thaws and
then is refrozen, the amino acids can change to a type of toxin and could
cause a health issue for your fish. Sorry!
The Hikari Customer Service Team"

In the meantime I've been using a pack that I got from the LFS, and now I'll be throwing the other food away. Just another example of how my tank is a money pit!! lol

MellowReefer · 11/04/2013, 11:46 AM

Also I was thinking about this...what if your LFS/pet store gets in a shipment of food and doesn't put it away right away? Do you think the employee will want to get in trouble and say they forgot to put it away, or do you think they'll put it in the freezer and sell it? For example the one pack of mysis I just got from petsmart the other day has a similar look to the ones I thawed and refroze where the top part is all ice so it looks like it melted at one time. From now on I think I'll only be getting it online from a place I trust.

cloak · 11/04/2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MellowReefer

I have an update. I contacted Hikari (most of my food was theirs) and this is what they said:

"Thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your support of
our products. We recommend that you destroy this food as once it thaws and
then is refrozen, the amino acids can change to a type of toxin and could
cause a health issue for your fish. Sorry!
The Hikari Customer Service Team"

I'll take that bet... They NEED to say this to you.

Don't overthink it, it's just fish food... JMO.

MellowReefer · 11/04/2013, 01:30 PM

I do realize they want to err on the side of caution, and it also can't hurt to have me buy all new food.

cloak · 11/04/2013, 01:59 PM

Just as an example, (horrible reality) If a person was in a terrible plain accident over the bay, the fish would be eating U...

Don't forget about all those bugs the fish are eating when your not looking...

MellowReefer · 11/04/2013, 03:09 PM

I found this quote on multiple websites:

" Refreezing is bad for three reasons. First, by refreezing food you multiply the damage to it--any cells that escaped rupture the first time the food was frozen are at risk of being ruptured the second time. Second, when food has been frozen and thawed out, it has larger pockets of liquid within it than the first time due to the ruptured cells. When the food is refrozen, the larger pockets of liquid can freeze into much larger ice crystals, which can tear through many more cell membranes and lead to more damage to the food. (The best way to avoid cell damage, incidentally, is flash-freezing, which produces smaller ice crystals, minimal cell damage, and maximum freshness.)

The third and most important reason not to refreeze is increased risk of spoilage due to microorganisms. "

I actually did eat some lasagna I had in the freezer the same time as this food. I don't know if it was all in my head or whatever, but it did not taste as good as before. I made sure to heat it really well. But it makes me wonder if the taste is off, what about the impact on nutrition.

10/26/2013, 01:41 PM	#1
MellowReefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 854	Food thawed for several days - dangerous to feed? So as bad things always happen at the worst possible time, the week after I spent 100+ on frozen food online our refrigerator broke so it wasn't cold enough to keep it frozen. Now its all been thawed for 2-3 days (kept about 40-45 degrees) We just got our new fridge. Should I bother to re-freeze it all and see if it seems okay and if the fish eat it I can use it? Or could it make the fish sick/kill them and it's better not to risk it? I know it can be dangerous for humans to eat fish/meat left unfrozen for too long, but do fish have the same problem with bacteria in food? __________________ Current tank: 125 Gallon Mixed Reef set up February 2012

10/26/2013, 01:56 PM	#2
Megatrev62 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: ST.John's Newfoundland Canada Posts: 1,712	Just had a large frozen flat pack of Mysis shrimp on a fish order the other day. A total fiasco with the airline and we could not pick up the fish until 10 hours after they landed. Luckily all the fish made it.In the meantime the Mysis pack was completely thawed out.It was shipped without an ice pack because of the fish. I told them to send it on. Room temperature when I finally got it. I just put it straight in the freezer. Feeding it and the fish are devouring it. I think I would use it. Fish east all kinds of dead things in the ocean and the food you describe wasn't near room temp. __________________ Please understand honey,it's not just me!!! Current Tank Info: 75 gallon, mixed reef,fuge.

10/27/2013, 02:05 AM	#5
MellowReefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 854	No worms. I had I think 8 packs of the Hikari mysis, a few PE mysis, some mix stuff (prime reef,mega marine, etc.) and nutramar ova. The open packets where it's not individual cubes I tossed out and the other ones I re-froze. Hopefully it's okay, I fed one today and it didn't smell or anything and the fish ate as they usually do. I know for human food the rule is not to let it get over 40 degrees or bacteria will multiply, and I know the fridge was up to 45 at one point between trips to get ice. __________________ Current tank: 125 Gallon Mixed Reef set up February 2012

10/27/2013, 09:39 AM	#6
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	If your frozen food was thawed for several days would you eat it???? If the answer is yes, then go ahead and use it. If you prefer to avoid food poisoning, toss it. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

11/04/2013, 11:41 AM	#8
MellowReefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 854	I have an update. I contacted Hikari (most of my food was theirs) and this is what they said: "Thank you for taking the time to contact us and for your support of our products. We recommend that you destroy this food as once it thaws and then is refrozen, the amino acids can change to a type of toxin and could cause a health issue for your fish. Sorry! The Hikari Customer Service Team" In the meantime I've been using a pack that I got from the LFS, and now I'll be throwing the other food away. Just another example of how my tank is a money pit!! lol __________________ Current tank: 125 Gallon Mixed Reef set up February 2012

10/26/2013, 02:15 PM	#3
campos Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Bay Area/San Ramon Posts: 546	what type of food is it? If there are any worms, blood worms especially, I definitely would not use.

10/27/2013, 09:48 AM	#7
Av8bluewater Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 763	If you're postitive it was in a refrigerated environment like 40-45º then it should be ok. Smell it first. For some reason I'm getting a feeling the temp may have got higher after 3 days. Sounds risky.

11/04/2013, 11:46 AM	#9
MellowReefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 854	Also I was thinking about this...what if your LFS/pet store gets in a shipment of food and doesn't put it away right away? Do you think the employee will want to get in trouble and say they forgot to put it away, or do you think they'll put it in the freezer and sell it? For example the one pack of mysis I just got from petsmart the other day has a similar look to the ones I thawed and refroze where the top part is all ice so it looks like it melted at one time. From now on I think I'll only be getting it online from a place I trust. __________________ Current tank: 125 Gallon Mixed Reef set up February 2012

11/04/2013, 01:30 PM	#11
MellowReefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 854	I do realize they want to err on the side of caution, and it also can't hurt to have me buy all new food. __________________ Current tank: 125 Gallon Mixed Reef set up February 2012

11/04/2013, 01:59 PM	#12
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	Just as an example, (horrible reality) If a person was in a terrible plain accident over the bay, the fish would be eating U... Don't forget about all those bugs the fish are eating when your not looking...

11/04/2013, 03:09 PM	#13
MellowReefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 854	I found this quote on multiple websites: " Refreezing is bad for three reasons. First, by refreezing food you multiply the damage to it--any cells that escaped rupture the first time the food was frozen are at risk of being ruptured the second time. Second, when food has been frozen and thawed out, it has larger pockets of liquid within it than the first time due to the ruptured cells. When the food is refrozen, the larger pockets of liquid can freeze into much larger ice crystals, which can tear through many more cell membranes and lead to more damage to the food. (The best way to avoid cell damage, incidentally, is flash-freezing, which produces smaller ice crystals, minimal cell damage, and maximum freshness.) The third and most important reason not to refreeze is increased risk of spoilage due to microorganisms. " I actually did eat some lasagna I had in the freezer the same time as this food. I don't know if it was all in my head or whatever, but it did not taste as good as before. I made sure to heat it really well. But it makes me wonder if the taste is off, what about the impact on nutrition. __________________ Current tank: 125 Gallon Mixed Reef set up February 2012