I moved my reef and it died

OrQidz · 11/18/2013, 10:17 PM

ahhh, so much for best laid plans.....background: I have a 28 gallon nano mostly soft coral reef tank. The only stonies are LPS including a small Duncan, frogspawn, and candy cane. I have a yellow clown goby, an orange lined cardinalfish, and a tailspot blenny. I take a pretty low tech approach, HOB filters, biocube skimmer (sort of works), T5s and some kind of fairly cheap LED. I have a lot of mushrooms, a toadstool leather, a Kenya tree and a whole lot of GSP. I do 10-15% weekly water changes with RO water and reef crystals, or NSW from the LFS.

Or, I had.....So I moved everything to a new 29 gallon that I had set up as a sort of DIY all in one, with spray foam background. Substrate was new aragonite sand (not live, and very well rinsed). I've moved things from one tank to another and stuff before, but never had a disaster...until this time.

All the rock and critters got moved over Saturday. It seemed to go ok, the usual closed corals after being moved, but fish ok. Yesterday (Sunday, one day after moving) most of the corals looked annoyed and closed up, fish were ok. The water looked a little bit cloudy, but I attributed it to moving everything around.

Today (Monday) I came home to a dead tank. The water is cloudy and smells awful, the cardinalfish is very dead, and all the LPS are just skeletons. The mushrooms have disintegrated into pieces over the last day. The zoas/polyps are closed up but haven't fallen apart yet. The Leather is closed up but not obviously dead yet. I haven't seen my blenny but the yellow goby is ok. Ammonia is 0.25 on an API test. Nitrate is 0, nitrate I didn't bother with and I will be testing pH, alk and calcium here shortly.

I'm thinking either this is an ammonia spike from moving, or something worse. The ammonia is high (was 0 before the move) but nitrites are 0. Does that make sense with an ammonia spike in the last 24-48 hrs? I've moved tanks before without this happening so I'm wondering if "just" an ammonia spike could kill every coral, fish and literally melt mushrooms basically in one day? (I've had mushrooms survive my newbie 'what is a cycle' days, so I wonder).

The other thought is toxins. I have never used any copper of any kind on any of my tanks so I don't think it's that (I have a test so I will check that though). The spray foam is the black pond type stuff that was set up for about a week prior to filling the tank with FW, which then sat for a day with the pump running. Filtration is an overflow into the DIY media rack made with egg crate, filter floss, phosguard, then a biocube return pump back to the display area. The only other mechanical item is a koralia pump that I had in the other tank. Maybe the foam is toxic, or the pump is leaking metal?

I've changed out about 8 gallons and working on more, and I've added some carbon. No improvement yet. Ammonia recheck was still 0.25 so I will keep doing water changes. Does this amount of complete destruction overnight sound like an ammonia spike? In other words, stupid question, but does an ammonia spike kill literally the whole tank overnight?

Any ideas??? I feel sick about this.....UGH.

OrQidz · 11/18/2013, 10:42 PM

updated tests:
I forgot to say before, SG is 1.025 measured before and after the move (and now) on a refractometer. Temp is 78.
copper - negative
nitrite still 0
Ammonia - a little less green! The test goes from 0 to 0.25 with nothing in between but there is a hint of green only now.
pH 8.2
Ca 440
alk - on the KH test I always use, it is taking 9 drops to change color vs the usual 10. Whatever that means...

maybe this is really "just" ammonia? With things looking a bit better I'm going to mix more SW and do another WC in the morning.....fingers crossed!

I just saw my tailspot blenny alive in there so at least I can feel a little bit better!

Good_GReef · 11/19/2013, 01:03 AM

I have nothing to theorize. Just wanted to say sorry to hear that - sometimes this hobby sucks. If it were me I would see if there was another tank everything could go into temporarily until you can break that down and start it over. Even someone at your local club might volunteer if you ask.

Boston21 · 11/19/2013, 01:11 AM

Sorry to hear about your loss

I will have to move my tank in roughly 8 months and am hoping for the best (20g)

Reefer54 · 11/19/2013, 01:23 AM

did you cure the foam or seal it and let it properly dry and cure prior to filling the tank

expanding foam will leach lots of SHTuff into your water for a while if it is not sealed.

that is what i think of. sorry.

ca1ore · 11/19/2013, 07:43 AM

Hard to say. I have moved tanks lots of times and, sure, you lose the occasional piece, but nothing quite as dramatic as this. As long as you moved all the old rock, I cannot see a major recycle, so either something big died and spiked ammonia or it was the foam.

cilyjr · 11/19/2013, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefer54

did you cure the foam or seal it and let it properly dry and cure prior to filling the tank

expanding foam will leach lots of SHTuff into your water for a while if it is not sealed.

that is what i think of. sorry.

You do not need to seal this stuff. I have used it in my pond right out of the can and had the waterfall going the next day with no ill effects.
I have also used it in my tank. I actually used the great stuff insulating foam. It's the same except white.
When I use it in the reef I let it soak in some fresh water for a few days to let anything leach out. Though I have done small repairs and added that back after a 24 hr curing and a fast rinse with no ill effects.
I will say I have only a small area using the foam in an 250 gallon system and I do always run carbon.

Weather it was the foam or something else that got it started the ammonia spike finished the job. You don't see the trates or trites yet probably because the bacteria that helps with changing ammonia to nitrites hasn't had time to deal with such an abundance of it. You will likely see them both spike soon.

FlyPenFly · 11/19/2013, 09:14 AM

Hmmm sounds like you had a mini cycle that turned into a crash.

OrQidz · 11/19/2013, 09:57 PM

thanks for the replies...this is a bummer for sure. I've never seen a tank crash like this. It really is an eye opener. I'm sure I've little blips of cycles here and there but wow, ammonia really does kill a reef! I have a new respect for it. I've always been careful to cycle and keep up with water changes and I've been lucky to avoid having a crash before.

Anyway, it looks no better this evening and I'm going to do a 50% water change. I'm debating pulling out the fish and some of the non dead coral containing live rock and putting them in a 10 gallon to weather the storm. I guess the tank can just cycle for now.

I'm glad to know others have used the foam ok and I didn't do something really stupid by using it. I let it cure for about a week and filled the tank with FW and then drained it. I'll keep running carbon too.

nmbeg · 11/19/2013, 11:40 PM

i know what a dead tank smells like. came home one day to a 125g tank that had lost power while i was away for the weekend. sucks.

at least i knew why mine died. yours is a mystery. sorry for the loss.

11/18/2013, 10:17 PM	#1
OrQidz Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 825	I moved my reef and it died ahhh, so much for best laid plans.....background: I have a 28 gallon nano mostly soft coral reef tank. The only stonies are LPS including a small Duncan, frogspawn, and candy cane. I have a yellow clown goby, an orange lined cardinalfish, and a tailspot blenny. I take a pretty low tech approach, HOB filters, biocube skimmer (sort of works), T5s and some kind of fairly cheap LED. I have a lot of mushrooms, a toadstool leather, a Kenya tree and a whole lot of GSP. I do 10-15% weekly water changes with RO water and reef crystals, or NSW from the LFS. Or, I had.....So I moved everything to a new 29 gallon that I had set up as a sort of DIY all in one, with spray foam background. Substrate was new aragonite sand (not live, and very well rinsed). I've moved things from one tank to another and stuff before, but never had a disaster...until this time. All the rock and critters got moved over Saturday. It seemed to go ok, the usual closed corals after being moved, but fish ok. Yesterday (Sunday, one day after moving) most of the corals looked annoyed and closed up, fish were ok. The water looked a little bit cloudy, but I attributed it to moving everything around. Today (Monday) I came home to a dead tank. The water is cloudy and smells awful, the cardinalfish is very dead, and all the LPS are just skeletons. The mushrooms have disintegrated into pieces over the last day. The zoas/polyps are closed up but haven't fallen apart yet. The Leather is closed up but not obviously dead yet. I haven't seen my blenny but the yellow goby is ok. Ammonia is 0.25 on an API test. Nitrate is 0, nitrate I didn't bother with and I will be testing pH, alk and calcium here shortly. I'm thinking either this is an ammonia spike from moving, or something worse. The ammonia is high (was 0 before the move) but nitrites are 0. Does that make sense with an ammonia spike in the last 24-48 hrs? I've moved tanks before without this happening so I'm wondering if "just" an ammonia spike could kill every coral, fish and literally melt mushrooms basically in one day? (I've had mushrooms survive my newbie 'what is a cycle' days, so I wonder). The other thought is toxins. I have never used any copper of any kind on any of my tanks so I don't think it's that (I have a test so I will check that though). The spray foam is the black pond type stuff that was set up for about a week prior to filling the tank with FW, which then sat for a day with the pump running. Filtration is an overflow into the DIY media rack made with egg crate, filter floss, phosguard, then a biocube return pump back to the display area. The only other mechanical item is a koralia pump that I had in the other tank. Maybe the foam is toxic, or the pump is leaking metal? I've changed out about 8 gallons and working on more, and I've added some carbon. No improvement yet. Ammonia recheck was still 0.25 so I will keep doing water changes. Does this amount of complete destruction overnight sound like an ammonia spike? In other words, stupid question, but does an ammonia spike kill literally the whole tank overnight? Any ideas??? I feel sick about this.....UGH.

11/19/2013, 01:03 AM	#3
Good_GReef Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Broomfield, CO Posts: 130	I have nothing to theorize. Just wanted to say sorry to hear that - sometimes this hobby sucks. If it were me I would see if there was another tank everything could go into temporarily until you can break that down and start it over. Even someone at your local club might volunteer if you ask. __________________ Eat. Pray. Reef. Repeat. Current Tank Info: 120g reef with horrifically giant gbta and rbta hosting maroons, scooter blenny, duncan, zoas, monti, starry blenny, foxface, filefish, peppermint shrimp gang. 30 gallon cube Reef, zoas, xenia, clown, mandarin, chalices, lps, acan, mini maxi anemone

11/19/2013, 01:23 AM	#5
Reefer54 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Avon Posts: 1,087	did you cure the foam or seal it and let it properly dry and cure prior to filling the tank expanding foam will leach lots of SHTuff into your water for a while if it is not sealed. that is what i think of. sorry. __________________ R54 Current Tank Info: 36 x 36 x 25 Cube, mixed reef, A360WE x 3, A350N x 1, 40GB sump, RDSB, Remote LR Cryptic, 2 WP-40's, ummm....

11/18/2013, 10:42 PM	#2
OrQidz Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 825	updated tests: I forgot to say before, SG is 1.025 measured before and after the move (and now) on a refractometer. Temp is 78. copper - negative nitrite still 0 Ammonia - a little less green! The test goes from 0 to 0.25 with nothing in between but there is a hint of green only now. pH 8.2 Ca 440 alk - on the KH test I always use, it is taking 9 drops to change color vs the usual 10. Whatever that means... maybe this is really "just" ammonia? With things looking a bit better I'm going to mix more SW and do another WC in the morning.....fingers crossed! I just saw my tailspot blenny alive in there so at least I can feel a little bit better!

11/19/2013, 01:11 AM	#4
Boston21 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Posts: 452	Sorry to hear about your loss I will have to move my tank in roughly 8 months and am hoping for the best (20g)

11/19/2013, 07:43 AM	#6
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Hard to say. I have moved tanks lots of times and, sure, you lose the occasional piece, but nothing quite as dramatic as this. As long as you moved all the old rock, I cannot see a major recycle, so either something big died and spiked ammonia or it was the foam.

11/19/2013, 09:14 AM	#8
FlyPenFly SPS Killer Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,490	Hmmm sounds like you had a mini cycle that turned into a crash.

11/19/2013, 09:57 PM	#9
OrQidz Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 825	thanks for the replies...this is a bummer for sure. I've never seen a tank crash like this. It really is an eye opener. I'm sure I've little blips of cycles here and there but wow, ammonia really does kill a reef! I have a new respect for it. I've always been careful to cycle and keep up with water changes and I've been lucky to avoid having a crash before. Anyway, it looks no better this evening and I'm going to do a 50% water change. I'm debating pulling out the fish and some of the non dead coral containing live rock and putting them in a 10 gallon to weather the storm. I guess the tank can just cycle for now. I'm glad to know others have used the foam ok and I didn't do something really stupid by using it. I let it cure for about a week and filled the tank with FW and then drained it. I'll keep running carbon too.

11/19/2013, 11:40 PM	#10
nmbeg Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 894	i know what a dead tank smells like. came home one day to a 125g tank that had lost power while i was away for the weekend. sucks. at least i knew why mine died. yours is a mystery. sorry for the loss.