Newbie Reefer - Super excited but already a dead fish on the third day

[simon604]

Hi everyone, I am super new to reefing. My girlfriend and I fell in love with the reef when we were in Australia. This Xmas, her mom decided to buy us a very expensive present and got one of her friend to set everything up for us... See for yourself! It's truly magical and we are so excited when we first saw it! This is a 38 gallon tank with 1 clown fish, 1 butterfly fish, 1 firefish and a couple of Frogspawn corals (i think?).







Stress followed the excitement quickly. On the second day, our clown fish was swimming funny and we knew something was wrong with him. We took some of our water to the LFS right the way to test the water. Unfortunately, by the time we got home, the Clownfish was already dead... The Frogspawns are also partially losing color and not extending as much as before.

The results from LFS water testing was:
pH - 7.8
Salinity - 1.027
Temperature - 80F
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Ammonia - negligible

I was told to do the following by the LFS:
1) Keep an eye on the temperature to make sure it's hovering around 80F
2) Lower the salinity to around 1.024 by tapping off with fresh water everyday
3) Raise the ph level to around 8.3 (we bought some ph solutions)
4) Buy a test kit so we can keep an eye on ammonia,nitrite and nitrate levels
5) Do a 20% water change bi-weekly

My questions are:

1) My clownfish is dead, but it's stuck in the live rock at the very bottom!! I tried to pull it out with my hands but it just wouldn't come out. If I pull hard, I am afraid I will rip his corpse apart... Should I just leave him in there? or should I do whatever it takes to take him out?

2) I know there are lots of important water parameters, but for a beginner, what other important thing should I be looking out for besides salinity, temp, ammonia etc. ?

3) Any idea why the Frogspawn are losing color and not extending?

4) Finally, just any important tips for a newbie? I really want to make sure that this magical reef survives.

Regards,
Simon

[scubaprashant]

1) Yes, you need to get it out. As long as it is decaying, you will have poor water chemistry. In large tanks, things like this don't matter as much since usually they are skimmed heavily and have large clean-up crews. Your tank does not fall into this category, so it needs to come out NOW. Don't worry about your rock. This won't be the first time you find yourself rearranging it.

2) If you are keeping corals, you should maintain your tank at NSW (natural sea water) levels. Test for alkalinity, calcium, magnesium and maintain at natural levels. Same applies to your salinity. Topping off with fresh water is the only way to top off your tank. I'm not sure why the LFS didn't advise you to remove a small amount of your water daily and REPLACE it with RODI water. That's the correct way to lower your salinity. Because your water volume isn't very large, you'll need to take extra care to make sure your drops in salinity are slow and gradual.

PH isn't as important as he is making it out to be. Chasing a perfect 8.3 isn't important. Just make sure you aren't overfeeding and maintain your Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate as close to 0 as possible. Nitrate can be a little over 0, but your Ammonia and Nitrites need to be at 0 at all times.

3) You do have a frogspawn, and it is possibly losing color due to the following:

- Too much light or poor acclimation to the light that you have in comparison to the light which it was growing under previously

- Extremely high alkalinity (very unlikely)

These are very hardy corals so you should be fine if you take corrective action (if any of the above scenarios apply to you)

4) Magical tips? "Nothing good happens fast in a reef."

* Skim 24/7 and use a good skimmer rated for double your tank volume
* Don't buy a tang for a tank that size.
* Never trust your LFS. Remember that they are there to make a sale. They may be right, but it's still better to do your own research. The best research you can possibly do is more than likely here. There are very informative stickies which will walk you through the basics of maintaining a successful reef.
* Don't overfeed. Your tank volume is small so you must take extra precaution not to overfeed your tank. Smaller more frequent feedings are way better than 1 heavy feeding.
* Dip your corals before introducing them to your tank and educate yourself on the pests out there that exist and live to devour corals.

READ READ READ!!! You will never know everything about the reef, and that's the best part about this hobby.

Most importanty, enjoy your tank and make the maintenance as easy and efficient as possible. You don't have to keep up with the Joneses in this hobby. Just worry about your tank and what YOU like.

Good luck!

[criticalencore]

All good info above. I'd also watch that butterfly to see if its nipping or picking at the frogspawn. Butterfly fish are generally not considered reef safe. I know you said you have just gotten this ~3 days ago but How long has the tank been setup and running with the rock that's in it before that? Reading about the nitrogen cycle is a very important part of keeping fish in an aquarium because that's the main part of filtration. It turns the ammonia>nitrite>nitrate. Good luck and Dont be afraid to ask questions, a some point everyone was new to having an aquarium

[Cymonous]

Main question. Did you cycle your tank? If so, how long?

[lifeoffaith]

Originally Posted by Cymonous

Main question. Did you cycle your tank? If so, how long?

Second on that. Also, that butterfly doesn't do well with coral from what I've read. It will probably take out the frogspawn.

[simon604]

@scubaprashant thanks a lot for the informative reply! We'll try our best to try to take out the clown fish again. It was just really stuck with its head in the crack of a live rock and his tail sticking out. I am afraid that we might rip him apart if we pulled any harder.

@criticalencore @lifeoffaith The butterfly fish has mainly been chirping at the live rocks. I haven't seen it go at the Frogspawn so far.

@lifeoffaith Ok this is going to be a newbie question... by cycling the tank? do you mean changing water?

The water, live rock and frogspawns all came from an old 200 gallon tank that has been stable for years. Only the clownfish, firefish and butterfly were new. I think that's why they were able to set this up pretty much overnight to surprise us.

Still kinda sad that "Nemo" died so quickly

[criticalencore]

Cycling is giving a new tank time for the good bacteria to establish itself which acts as the filtration for the system. Google the nitrogen cycle and read several sources... even if the stuff came from an established system moving it into an unestablished (uncycled) tank will be bad for the livestock. Without the beneficial bacteria in your tank that ammonia will continue to the unchecked and poison the fish/coral/inverts. If its a newly setup tank you should at least grab a bottle of bacteria like brightwell microbacter7 and start dosing it ASAP.

[duperdave]

if all the live rock came from an established tank I'm sure cycling is not the issue the beneficial bacteria that everybody's talking about for cycling lives in the rock.you should get yourself a test kit test for ammonia ,nitrite, and nitrate.but like everybody says above start reading and keep reading.start by reading the stickies at the top of the forum.you should probably lower your salinity gradually to1.0 25 by removing small amount of salt water and adding fresh ro/di water.

[michfish5]

What a great Christmas gift! And welcome to the hobby. Sorry you already had a loss. If I were you I would go back and read the Stickies on setup, quarantine, and cycling to start. And also get some good test kits and keep a log. There is a good spreadsheet already setup on here.

Your specific gravity is a bit high and you should bring it down all slowly by removing some tank wAter and replacing it with RO or RO/DI water to get around 1.024 or 1.025. You should also get a refractometer to measure SG if you don't have one. They are more accurate than hydrometers.

Your clown may have died for a number of reasons. Going forward it is always best to go really slow. Don't add too much all at once and quarantine new livestock. Right now I would let your system stabilize and read as much as you can. This is a great forum. Good luck!

[simon604]

The dead clownfish has been successfully removed! Girlfriend freaked out a bit seeing the corpse but I guess that's part of the aquarium experience

Time to read, read, read this holiday

[FullBoreReefer]

Originally Posted by simon604

The dead clownfish has been successfully removed! Girlfriend freaked out a bit seeing the corpse but I guess that's part of the aquarium experience lol

Time to read, read, read this holiday

Not part of the experience. Seems you have a lot to read. Having a fish and/or coral die is not part of the process. Means your doing it wrong. Never shrug it off. "Oh it's a fish" sounds like this may not be a hobby for you.

Do you have a dog? Neglect it and I bet it'll die, to blunt? That sounds like you would feel the same way about other pets.

I know it Christmas but receiving the tank setup may not have been the best bet and could have been delayed until your ready.

[msderganc]

A couple of things I was thinking:
First, firefish are notorious jumpers, so you'll need some type of screen top to keep him in over the long run. Bulk reef supply sells a kit relatively cheaply.

Don't ignore the low pH necessarily. It could be a symptom of another problem (e.g. low water oxygen levels) which could have contributed to the clown's death.

Also, if you do replace the clown, try to get a tank raised fish. There are a lot of cool clowns that are being captive bred now.

Lastly, read a lot (which you already seem to know). These forums are a wealth of information, and don't miss some of the build threads. They will show a lot of the process and different ways to accomplish similar tasks.

[Gnarly]

Originally Posted by scubaprashant

1) Yes, you need to get it out. As long as it is decaying, you will have poor water chemistry. In large tanks, things like this don't matter as much since usually they are skimmed heavily and have large clean-up crews. Your tank does not fall into this category, so it needs to come out NOW. Don't worry about your rock. This won't be the first time you find yourself rearranging it.

2) If you are keeping corals, you should maintain your tank at NSW (natural sea water) levels. Test for alkalinity, calcium, magnesium and maintain at natural levels. Same applies to your salinity. Topping off with fresh water is the only way to top off your tank. I'm not sure why the LFS didn't advise you to remove a small amount of your water daily and REPLACE it with RODI water. That's the correct way to lower your salinity. Because your water volume isn't very large, you'll need to take extra care to make sure your drops in salinity are slow and gradual.

PH isn't as important as he is making it out to be. Chasing a perfect 8.3 isn't important. Just make sure you aren't overfeeding and maintain your Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate as close to 0 as possible. Nitrate can be a little over 0, but your Ammonia and Nitrites need to be at 0 at all times.

3) You do have a frogspawn, and it is possibly losing color due to the following:

- Too much light or poor acclimation to the light that you have in comparison to the light which it was growing under previously

- Extremely high alkalinity (very unlikely)

These are very hardy corals so you should be fine if you take corrective action (if any of the above scenarios apply to you)

4) Magical tips? "Nothing good happens fast in a reef."

* Skim 24/7 and use a good skimmer rated for double your tank volume
* Don't buy a tang for a tank that size.
* Never trust your LFS. Remember that they are there to make a sale. They may be right, but it's still better to do your own research. The best research you can possibly do is more than likely here. There are very informative stickies which will walk you through the basics of maintaining a successful reef.
* Don't overfeed. Your tank volume is small so you must take extra precaution not to overfeed your tank. Smaller more frequent feedings are way better than 1 heavy feeding.
* Dip your corals before introducing them to your tank and educate yourself on the pests out there that exist and live to devour corals.

READ READ READ!!! You will never know everything about the reef, and that's the best part about this hobby.

Most importanty, enjoy your tank and make the maintenance as easy and efficient as possible. You don't have to keep up with the Joneses in this hobby. Just worry about your tank and what YOU like.

Good luck!

+1
Oh and I think you should have waited a bit before adding fish since it's brand new and will go through a cycle even if the liverock were from someone elses tank. It will just make the cycle faster.

But definitely waterchanges and RODI water topoff

[danimallaminad]

Not part of the experience. Seems you have a lot to read. Having a fish and/or coral die is not part of the process. Means your doing it wrong. Never shrug it off. "Oh it's a fish" sounds like this may not be a hobby for you.

Do you have a dog? Neglect it and I bet it'll die, to blunt? That sounds like you would feel the same way about other pets.

I know it Christmas but receiving the tank setup may not have been the best bet and could have been delayed until your ready.

ease up a little bit jeeze. He's new to the hobby like we all were once, I'm sure you've had a fish die before. Don't just berate but try help him, like the rest of the people who have posted.
+1 on read the stickies, they are stickies for a reason haha. If you have questions don't be shy, thats what this forums for to help each other earn more about this great hobby.

[Dan90]

Originally Posted by FullBoreReefer

Not part of the experience. Seems you have a lot to read. Having a fish and/or coral die is not part of the process. Means your doing it wrong. Never shrug it off. "Oh it's a fish" sounds like this may not be a hobby for you.

Do you have a dog? Neglect it and I bet it'll die, to blunt? That sounds like you would feel the same way about other pets.

I know it Christmas but receiving the tank setup may not have been the best bet and could have been delayed until your ready.

Also keep in mind while he is new he had what he thought was an expert set it up giving false illusion he was in good shape.

[simon604]

Thanks for the support guys! Rest assure that I take every living thing in my tank seriously. I'll be doing some investment in equipment on amazon tonight e.g. RODI water maker, refractometer, API test kit etc.

Kinda wished I set this up myself from the start so I know everything about it, but I will have to work with what i have. As I learn more and more, I have to say that our friend who set it up definitely didn't know everything...

The butterfly fish has just started to nib on our frogspawn coral today! The specie that I have (Chaetodontidae) is known to eat coral for a living. I am thinking we will have to return him to the LFS. I definitely prefer to keep my coral healthy!

[CoralBeauty13]

Please do read a lot more. I bought a cycled tank that came with the fish , corals and rock. Everything was going great for a few weeks, then..... I started going out to buy anything and everything i liked ,Out out of 7 new fish, only two have survived and that was a struggle in it's self. I have stopped buying anything fish related, and trying Beginner corals which are doing good. Please research on what to do, mainly with tank maintenance, and chemistry of your water. I have learned a valuable lesson.

[robn70]

The Foxface that you have looks to be a Latticed Butterfly fish and they need at least a 120 gal tank and are not considered beginners fish either. They require meaty foods and will eat both soft and hard corals. Definitely not a good fish for a 38 gal.