QT Experience

[kouma]

Just sharing my experience so far...

Background:

I picked up three fish from a friend who is leaving the hobby. A purple, yellow, and vlamingii tang. He had them for over a year and they were eating well and thriving in his tank. Nonetheless, in an attempt to follow best practices, I still opted to quarantine them for at least 3 weeks if no visible signs of sickness show (one week to settle and two weeks of PraziPro).

QT Setup:

60 gal QT (48Lx12Wx24H) using water from DT, a few pieces of LR, and seeded bio-wheel filter; 2x HOB filters w. biowheel; 200W heater, air pump, plenty of pvc, and Seachem ammonia alert.

Observation:

Day 1: gave the fish time to feel safe and only fed Nori algae. Ammonia alert was yellow (safe)

Day 2: gave nori and flakes. Ammonia alert was green (Alert). Tested using API kit to find that both Nitrite and Ammonia are at 0.5 ppm. Did 50% water change.

Dilemma:

I was shocked that within 48 hours both ammonia/nitrite raise to 0.5 ppm although i used seeded LR, water and filter, and only feed the minimum. I was very lucky to have a premixed saltwater at hand that allowed me to do the 50%.

Maintaining an uncycled QT tank is easier said than done. I am not sure how to dose medications, i.e. PraziPro that requires 5-7 days, when it seems i will need to change water every now and then just to manage the toxic levels.

I am now contemplating if I should just add the fish to the DT

[ca1ore]

How long did you give the bio wheel to seed in your DT? I've had absolutely no problems with ammonia in my QT tanks using seeded bio media.

I would always advocate QT, as you have done, but there are circumstances where the source of a particular fish conveys lower levels of risk. Getting established animals from a fellow reefer whom you know and trust seems like an example of where straight into your DT may be OK.

[kouma]

Its been in the DT for almost two months. I will test the water again tomorrow and see if the Nirates and Ammonia went down after the 50% water change. If i can't seem to control the QT cycle, i might just add them in

[kouma]

I decided to just add the fish into the DT, I hope I do not regret this decision. I have tried two 50% water changes but I can't seem to keep ammonia and nitrites down, they increased from 0.25 (after the 50%) water change to 0.5 within 24 hours.

Setting up a temporary QT is definitely not my direction moving on, I just doesnt work for fish with great bio-load. I will keep the current QT running to cycle and make that into a permanent QT.

[HumbleFish]

How big are these tangs? I can't see ammonia spiking that much in just 48 hours in 60 gals of water from only 3 fish. Is it possible you had die-off from the LR?

[kouma]

Hello HumbleFish,

The purple and yellow are 4-5", and vlamingii tang is 7-8". There is no reason for die off since the distance from DT to QT is about 4-5 Meters. I simple put the LR and media in a bucket of water and moved it to QT.

[HumbleFish]

Those are some pretty big tangs, so I guess I can see it now.

FWIW; I QT all my fish in a 29 gal. But usually just one fish at a time. I seed a sponge from an Aquaclear 70 in my DT sump for a month or two beforehand, and then use that for biological filtration. I don't add any LR or sand; just PVC fittings for hiding places. Never had any ammonia worries.

[tmz]

Ammonia can be a problem in a newly estblishe qt tank .but shouldn't be with cycled rock or seeded sponge. Though, the bioload from 3 large fish may have been to much for the bacteia initailly . Thsoe fish wil respire ammonia and addi t from urine ; not just food digestion..Ammonia detoxifiers like Ammo lock are good to have on hand if ammonia spikes but should not be used with some meds,partiucalry complexed copper meds like cupramine.. I prefer the tank transfer method and do not have issues with ammonia. That method would be diffiicult with 3 large fish at once.

I'd also double check any ammonia reading with another kit if possible. In your case the nitrate reading seems to confirm it.

Good luck,

[sandwi54]

It's a huge mistake when people think their bio media will be seeded with enough bacteria by placing them in the DT sump for months. Think about it, in the DT the cycled live rocks are doing almost all the work processing ammonia and nitrite, and there is only going to be a very small amount of bacteria seeded on the bio media. When using those media in a QT with small fish, the amount of bacteria they contain may be enough to process the waste. Once you start putting in large angels, tangs, puffers, etc., there's definitely NOT enough bacteria to process their waste.

When people say seeding a bio media in the sump, it's really just to seed a small amount of bacteria to get the QT cycle started. You can't expect that small amount of bacteria to be able to handle 15"+ of fish load right away. The proper way to cycle a QT is to put two large table shrimps in the QT, just like the same way as cycling a DT, before putting large fish into the QT.

[kouma]

sandwi54: I agree with what you said, maybe a couple of clown or a few damsels would have been okay, but not tangs. The thing is, I knew this so I also added LR. Granted not many, maybe 5 lbs.

Thanks tmz and HumbleFish, I have added the tangs to the DT and switched the lights off for the day. I hope everything will be okay tomorrow

[HumbleFish]

Just my 2 cents about seeding bio media for QT - based upon my own experiences:

If you take a large, porous sponge (I'm partial to the kind that comes with Aquaclear HOB powerfilters) & put it in your DT sump for a month or two - it will work fine for controlling ammonia when used in QT. PROVIDED you are using a big enough filter for your QT (I use an AC 70 on my 29gal) and don't overload your QT with too many fish (I normally QT 2-3 at a time).

A big sponge is no different than a piece of porous LR for seeding purposes. Both absorb free floating bacteria and then that bacteria spreads across it. The same way it does on your LR in the DT.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by sandwi54

It's a huge mistake when people think their bio media will be seeded with enough bacteria by placing them in the DT sump for months. Think about it, in the DT the cycled live rocks are doing almost all the work processing ammonia and nitrite, and there is only going to be a very small amount of bacteria seeded on the bio media. When using those media in a QT with small fish, the amount of bacteria they contain may be enough to process the waste. Once you start putting in large angels, tangs, puffers, etc., there's definitely NOT enough bacteria to process their waste.

I disagree .... and agree! I don't think bacteria differentiate between colonizing live rock in your display or biomedia in the sump, they will grow on both. They will, however, grow based on the available 'food'. I run a phosban 550 reactor on my tank filled with bio-media (ceramic rings, denitrate, whatever I have laying around) available whenever I need to setup a QT. Removing a cup or two of this material and putting it into a HOB filter has ALWAYS worked for me. Now, if you are putting a bioload into your QT that significantly exceeds that of the display, it stands to reason that the level of bacteria on the seeded media will be initially insufficient. It is for this reason that an overcrowded QT can become problematic, IME.

[kouma]

ca1ore you method is very interesting, maybe i will try that next time.

@HumbleFish: I have the Marineland 350 Biowheel on the 60Gal and a 250 Biowheel, only the 250 was seeded though, the 350 was brand new.