Algae Scrubber Side Effects

[mess7777]

Hello all,

I have had a scrubber running for a year and a half. N and P show up 0 all the time, I am not shy on feeding.

However, my corals just don't look good LPS, Zoa, SPS included. Polyp extension is very low, colors are pale. I have tonned of little fan worms but things like nassurius snails and feeder shrimp don't last. I had a mandarin that starved to death, in theory I should have loads of pods due to the ATS. At first I had amphipods loaded in my sump, now I see virtually none.

It is almost like the scrubber steals everything from the tank for algae generation, and doesn't leave much behind for any other living creatures.

I have seen a few other posts with anecdotal evidence of reduced polyp extension and others alluding to chemicals released from algae that may harm corals(this seems more far fetched).


Has anyone else noticed simliar issues after running one for a long time? I could very well have other issues causing my problems, just not sure.

[FlyPenFly]

How often and what do you feed?

What's your water change schedule?

Do you run UV/Ozone/carbon?

[mess7777]

Originally Posted by FlyPenFly

How often and what do you feed?

What's your water change schedule?

Do you run UV/Ozone/carbon?

I feed a variety of foods, flakes, pellets, mysis, cyclopeze, G-labs Polyp+. I vary the amount I feed but probably 2-3 cubes equivalent per day. My ATS is sized for 4 cubes but grows algae on less than half the screen.

I run carbon off and on to clean the water but am not religious about changing it.

Water changes on average 5% per week. I have tried ramping it up and down but nothing really changes.

[Maximus]

I wonder if the ats is taking out something ( phosphates, nitrates, iron etc) that the corals require? Could the ats be overly efficient?

[FlyPenFly]

If your ATS is only growing on half your screen, it's soaking up something to the point of exhaustion.

I would run carbon to soak up any allopathic chemicals that might be released by the algae.

I would also try dosing iodine and a trace element mix to see if it helps. Personally I use Reef Trace and Reef Plus. A broadcast coral food twice a week is also not a bad idea such as the BRS reef food.

What kind of lighting are you using?

[ca1ore]

Although it may seem somewhat counter-intuitive, I have found water changes to actually be more important if you run both a skimmer and ATS. Water changes do two major things: they dilute pollutants and they replenish depleted elements. My own pet theory is that running heavy filtration reduces the need for pollutant dilution but increases the need for trace element replenishment; thus the continuing importance of water changes.

Agree that running GAC (I also run poly-filters) is a very good idea, as is adding trace elements in moderation (I add iodine, iron, potassium and strontium). Trouble with the latter, if you are not carful, is overdosing since most of the things that would be added are not tested for.

I don't know of any tests that have compared tanks with ATS versus tanks without, across a big enough sample size, to draw any conclusions one way or the other about coral growth. Thus it all remains conjecture.

[mess7777]

I do dose amino acids in the form of Polyps Lab Polyps+. I dose Ca and Alk, and occasional Iodine...but I am leary of this because I don't like to add what I don't test.

Carbon in or out has little difference on the corals, water clarity can be a bit better with new carbon.

As I also mentioned, the amount of size of water changes doesn't have much effect either way.

My lights are Pacific Sun Hyperion. Plenty of light, maybe too much even. I actually ramped it down recently.

I do have AEFW which could explain some SPS issues, but wouldn't explain why half my zoa colonies are either small or don't open fully...nor why acans and other LPS don't do well.

[FlyPenFly]

I've found acans and LPS do well when I do direct feeding with LPS pellets or mysid.

[mess7777]

Originally Posted by FlyPenFly

I've found acans and LPS do well when I do direct feeding with LPS pellets or mysid.

You are right, I do target feed them frequently, and then try to keep the fish away long enough for them to eat!

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by mess7777

I vary the amount I feed but probably 2-3 cubes equivalent per day. My ATS is sized for 4 cubes but grows algae on less than half the screen.

Well, I run a dual-sided ATS sized for 10 cubes/day and it grows algae on every available spec of screen-estate. I don't target feed any of my inverts, but the fish get a lot (maybe not 10 cubes/day, but 5-7 easily). Can you share some photos of your tank and ATS?

Other than a open brain LPS that is just kind of hanging on, all my zoos and LPS look good.

[mess7777]

I think the places where there is no growth is just due to flow. There was a time when I had more growth, but at the moment the water kind of goes around those areas. I am not too worried about this as my N and P is at 0 virtually all the time. I don't need it to work better.

I really to know if anyone had similar issues to me after having an ATS running in the longer term. I am considering taking it offline, but am a little apprenhensive as I know my nutrient levels will rise quickly thereafter. My skimmer is undersized for the tank so it can't do it all alone.

[FlyPenFly]

how about just running fewer lighting hours?

[mess7777]

I could try that too I suppose, but I prefer more hours of lighting so I can look at it longer on weekends.

[FlyPenFly]

I mean on the algae scrubber, reduce the number of lit hours

[brob22]

i dont know much about ats, but it turns me off to have nusance algae in the system.
even though its in a controlled spot i feel it can do harm

[mont455]

Hey mess7777, sorry to hear about your issues. I ran a scrubber for years on my system and the only side affects I had was it was wiping out the nitrates but not all the phosphate, so I added in a gfo reactor to handle that issue. Really once I started keeping my phosphate around .02 and using rodi water things flourished. Now I had a failure in the scrubber last year so I took it out, side effect of that was more frequent water changes because the nitrates would rise over time without the scrubber that's all. I think your tank mates may be unhappy with something else, what changed after you last noted good results. Even just adding flow or changing where it's covering. Also with it being winter could be a lack a fresh air in the house too.

[mess7777]

alright, well it seems no one else on this forum noticed issues like this after using ATS, so it must be something else!

[muttley000]

How are you testing? If you are using an accurate method and getting zeros that may be the issue. Your corals need some nitrate and phosphate, if you have truly achieved zero available they are starving possibly? On my planned multi tank system I am planning an undersized ATS as a small part of my filtering regimen for this very reason.

[mess7777]

that is kind of what I am asking. Phosphates I use a Hanna checker, and after cleanings i do get reading above 0 on occasion.

nitrates i only use an API but it is always bright yellow. I guess I need something more accurate for lower numbers to see, but that is kind of my belief at this point...not enough nitrates for the corals to use before the ATS sucks them up.

On another note, I just cleaned it again and realized the tube from the pump to screen was nearly clogged with rotting algae. This was surely not helping anything, after getting it unclogged with a screwdriver(it was that bad!) , now the flow is MUCH higher. I guess because it decreased over time I never really noticed.

i am quite sure that rotting algae was doing nothing good for the tank either.

Another question, I dose Ca and Alk before my ATS, does anyone else do that? I don't really want to dose after because that is my return and don't want to risk calcifying the pump.

[Chris Abbott]

+1 on ruducing the light cycle or reducing the size of the ATS all together. I will not say I have any more time on an ATS than you do, but from my reading and experience it seams very possible that with scrubbers more isn't always better? I killed off a chaeto ball that filled 2/3 of my 20 long sump in about 8 weeks. That was enough evidence of how effective they can be for me.

[mess7777]

thanks, interesting I have always had chaeto which grows quickly along the ATS, even crawling up it sometimes.

[mpierce]

I have heard they sometimes strip too much iron. What color is the algae on the scrubber? Running a skimmer?