Could I do a lion in a 20g with great filtration?

Fish_King_25 · 08/01/2012, 11:39 AM

I am setting up a 20l, and am really interested in a dwarf lionfish possibly. I would be using a filter rated for 100g that I have, live sand, no skimmer or fuge as it will be a FOWLR.. would I be able to keep a dwarf lion in a 20L?

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ReachTheSky · 08/01/2012, 11:50 AM

I guess it would be possible but I doubt the fish would really like it's cramped environment. Most people recommend at least 50 gallons for a Fuzzy Dwarf and 100 gallons for a Volitans.

Scuba Steve · 08/01/2012, 11:56 AM

You can. People live in studio apartments. LOL. Ya its a little small of a tank for a lion.

The Mike · 08/01/2012, 11:57 AM

IMO 20 is to small for even a dwarf fuzzy I'd recommend atleast 30 for a single dwarf lion you could do a leaf fish or some sort of bottom dweller.

Personally with a 20g I'd make it a species only tank with a mantis shrimp or a frog angler

Bolivian Ram · 08/01/2012, 03:48 PM

No to a Dwarf lion. I'd go with a 30-40 gallon minimum for one of those. Look into the Fu Manchu Lionfish instead.

chrisfont23 · 08/01/2012, 06:43 PM

No way. Filtration has nothing to do with it. It's about swimming room/ample space.

Fish_King_25 · 08/01/2012, 10:12 PM

Fu manchu lion would be possible in a 20g?

ReachTheSky · 08/01/2012, 10:20 PM

I can see the Fu Manchu being kept in a 20 gallon tank, but still do not think the fish will be happy. They are also a hard to find breed and can be challenging to feed.

disc1 · 08/01/2012, 10:27 PM

Can I keep you in my broom closet as long as I give you lots of fresh air?

aarond419 · 08/01/2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disc1

Can I keep you in my broom closet as long as I give you lots of fresh air?

this made me spit beer at the laptop from laughter....

Bolivian Ram · 08/01/2012, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish_King_25

Fu manchu lion would be possible in a 20g?

Yes it is possible. However, a few things to consider. You'll need a QUALITY skimmer. Nothing crappy, only the best. Search the threads here for a list of them. You have a filter and that's great, but it won't suffice imo. A skimmer is your safest bet. Please consider it. Lionfish are heavy bioload creatures.

You will want a sump, I would do 10 gallons or more. Yes sumps are not needed in nano tanks BUT since lionfish and scorpionfish have high bioloads you will need a little more water volume. I would put 20 lbs live rock in the main display minimum.

And like Reach said, feeding is gonna be tough. These guys are hard to get eating frozen foods. If you manage to make the Fu eat frozen then you're halfway in keeping it long term. There is info in doing so online. Google it.

sponger0 · 08/02/2012, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disc1

Can I keep you in my broom closet as long as I give you lots of fresh air?

Lol....couldnt be said better.

Biotopes · 02/02/2014, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disc1

Can I keep you in my broom closet as long as I give you lots of fresh air?

danderso · 02/02/2014, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disc1

Can I keep you in my broom closet as long as I give you lots of fresh air?

Most tanks are smaller than a broom closet and the ocean is much larger than a house. I think this analogy would apply weather we are talking 20 gallons or 50 gallons.

Timfish · 02/02/2014, 06:10 PM

Scott Micheal in his book "Marine Fishes" lists the max size for the Ocellated Lionfish, Dendrochirus biocellatus, as 3.9" and a minimum aquarium tank size of 20 gallons. (Personally I would set it up with a 10 or twenty gallon lighted refugium with just a couple turnovers an hour.)

snorvich · 02/02/2014, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disc1

Can I keep you in my broom closet as long as I give you lots of fresh air?

Well, depends. In the case of fish, "the ocean is better" only applies to certain fish. Those which have a very small territorial imperative (such as clown fish) can do fine in relatively small tanks. In the case of small species lionfish, the normally recommended minimum tank size is 50 gallons. Can you do something is one question, more relevant is should you do something.

danderso · 02/02/2014, 08:37 PM

The ocean would always be better.
That doesn't mean we can't keep fish in a relatively humane manner.
The question was "would I be able...."
The answer is yes.

Biotopes · 02/03/2014, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danderso

Most tanks are smaller than a broom closet and the ocean is much larger than a house. I think this analogy would apply weather we are talking 20 gallons or 50 gallons.

We're talking about the fish, not the person

syrinx · 02/03/2014, 03:15 PM

One of my most shocking moments in my early LFS career was when the boss sent me to pick up a lionfish from someone who was moving. I was shocked to find a 12+inch volitan in a 30gallon long tank! It had grown up in the tank and had more body than fins due to wall contact. Another case of just because something can be done, it should not be. I would not put any "free swimming" lion in a 20l- but I wouldnt harsh if you found a tiny "rock hanging" lion. You will likely upgrade tanks long before he would outgrow it. Even if you do not decide to upgrade, just trade him in when he gets too big for you-then he will be the right size for a proper aquarium!

billdogg · 02/03/2014, 06:58 PM

Let's do some math.

A Story Problem, no less:

I had a 4' moray, IMO very similar in feeding habits (bioload) to your average Lionfish. He was in a 6' 150g tank that the Nitrate level was impossible to keep low enough to even read with 50g water changes weekly. LR for filtration. No skimmer. Hair algae - you've never seen Hair Algae.

What do you get if you divide 48" x 15.

Answer: 3.2 As in 3.2"/10g, 6.4"/20g

I think you will have similar troubles with a Lionfish, even a Dwarf. You will likely battle illness (Ich, etc) due to stress.

What I ended up doing was adding a 120g refugium with 6" DSB and ~ #100LR and a 50g sump to the system. That quickly fixed all of the problems I had been having.

So using that math again, if you just over double the water volume and max out filtration sure you can do it and keep the water chemistry in check. You'll still might have to work on available territory for it.

JM.02

Sadly, Hannibal passed about 6 months ago at the age of 25.

living_waters · 02/03/2014, 09:15 PM

you can but it won't be to happy but then again fuzzy dwarfs aren't that much of swimmers....

08/01/2012, 11:50 AM	#2
ReachTheSky Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 1,114	I guess it would be possible but I doubt the fish would really like it's cramped environment. Most people recommend at least 50 gallons for a Fuzzy Dwarf and 100 gallons for a Volitans. __________________ Van Current tank: 7.5g Nano-Reef \| Modified AquaClear50 \| RapidLED Par38 bulb \| 2x Koralia 240gph

08/01/2012, 10:12 PM	#7
Fish_King_25 Reef Addict Join Date: May 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 826	Fu manchu lion would be possible in a 20g? __________________ ~Kenny~ 29g mixed reef lps, sps, and softies, 10g sump/fuge, cadlights pls-100 skimmer, LifeReef overflow with Mag 7 return pump, Tunze ATO, 2 Koralias, 4x24w T5HO ATIs w/ moonlight LEDs Current Tank Info: Green Chromis, Yellow Clown Goby, Green Mandarin, Diamond Goby, Percula Clown, and CUC

08/01/2012, 10:20 PM	#8
ReachTheSky Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 1,114	I can see the Fu Manchu being kept in a 20 gallon tank, but still do not think the fish will be happy. They are also a hard to find breed and can be challenging to feed. __________________ Van Current tank: 7.5g Nano-Reef \| Modified AquaClear50 \| RapidLED Par38 bulb \| 2x Koralia 240gph

08/01/2012, 10:27 PM	#9
disc1 -RT * ln(k) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 9,705	Can I keep you in my broom closet as long as I give you lots of fresh air? __________________ David Current Tank: Undergoing reconstruction...

02/02/2014, 06:10 PM	#15
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	Scott Micheal in his book "Marine Fishes" lists the max size for the Ocellated Lionfish, Dendrochirus biocellatus, as 3.9" and a minimum aquarium tank size of 20 gallons. (Personally I would set it up with a 10 or twenty gallon lighted refugium with just a couple turnovers an hour.) __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

08/01/2012, 11:39 AM	#1
Fish_King_25 Reef Addict Join Date: May 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 826	Could I do a lion in a 20g with great filtration? I am setting up a 20l, and am really interested in a dwarf lionfish possibly. I would be using a filter rated for 100g that I have, live sand, no skimmer or fuge as it will be a FOWLR.. would I be able to keep a dwarf lion in a 20L? Sent from Tapatalk for Android __________________ ~Kenny~ 29g mixed reef lps, sps, and softies, 10g sump/fuge, cadlights pls-100 skimmer, LifeReef overflow with Mag 7 return pump, Tunze ATO, 2 Koralias, 4x24w T5HO ATIs w/ moonlight LEDs Current Tank Info: Green Chromis, Yellow Clown Goby, Green Mandarin, Diamond Goby, Percula Clown, and CUC

08/01/2012, 11:56 AM	#3
Scuba Steve Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 290	You can. People live in studio apartments. LOL. Ya its a little small of a tank for a lion.

08/01/2012, 11:57 AM	#4
The Mike Rawr! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Boston Posts: 179	IMO 20 is to small for even a dwarf fuzzy I'd recommend atleast 30 for a single dwarf lion you could do a leaf fish or some sort of bottom dweller. Personally with a 20g I'd make it a species only tank with a mantis shrimp or a frog angler

08/01/2012, 03:48 PM	#5
Bolivian Ram Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 128	No to a Dwarf lion. I'd go with a 30-40 gallon minimum for one of those. Look into the Fu Manchu Lionfish instead.

08/01/2012, 06:43 PM	#6
chrisfont23 Reef Monster Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Long Island Posts: 1,343	No way. Filtration has nothing to do with it. It's about swimming room/ample space.

02/02/2014, 08:37 PM	#17
danderso Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne, FL Posts: 396	The ocean would always be better. That doesn't mean we can't keep fish in a relatively humane manner. The question was "would I be able...." The answer is yes. __________________ It's always sunny in my reef tank Current tank info- 7 gal nano with AI Prime

02/03/2014, 03:15 PM	#19
syrinx Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: champaign Posts: 3,160	One of my most shocking moments in my early LFS career was when the boss sent me to pick up a lionfish from someone who was moving. I was shocked to find a 12+inch volitan in a 30gallon long tank! It had grown up in the tank and had more body than fins due to wall contact. Another case of just because something can be done, it should not be. I would not put any "free swimming" lion in a 20l- but I wouldnt harsh if you found a tiny "rock hanging" lion. You will likely upgrade tanks long before he would outgrow it. Even if you do not decide to upgrade, just trade him in when he gets too big for you-then he will be the right size for a proper aquarium! __________________ My views are based on 49years as an aquarist, 25 years as a pro reef consultant, 10 years of owning a LFS, and the results of thousands of customers tanks. But I am always learning.

02/03/2014, 06:58 PM	#20
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Let's do some math. A Story Problem, no less: I had a 4' moray, IMO very similar in feeding habits (bioload) to your average Lionfish. He was in a 6' 150g tank that the Nitrate level was impossible to keep low enough to even read with 50g water changes weekly. LR for filtration. No skimmer. Hair algae - you've never seen Hair Algae. What do you get if you divide 48" x 15. Answer: 3.2 As in 3.2"/10g, 6.4"/20g I think you will have similar troubles with a Lionfish, even a Dwarf. You will likely battle illness (Ich, etc) due to stress. What I ended up doing was adding a 120g refugium with 6" DSB and ~ #100LR and a 50g sump to the system. That quickly fixed all of the problems I had been having. So using that math again, if you just over double the water volume and max out filtration sure you can do it and keep the water chemistry in check. You'll still might have to work on available territory for it. JM.02 Sadly, Hannibal passed about 6 months ago at the age of 25. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

02/03/2014, 09:15 PM	#21
living_waters Moved On Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: coral springs fl Posts: 424	you can but it won't be to happy but then again fuzzy dwarfs aren't that much of swimmers....