Need some help !! New tank

CMD84 · 09/20/2013, 04:09 PM

my new tank need help in the sump area layout
hi this is my new tank need help setting it up i got a few ideas but sure whats best, please can you help !!!

Size of tank 47"(L) x 26” (H) x 18” (W)
Sump Size 46"(L) x 15 "(H) x 13"(W)

equipment i have already
Red Sea Berlin hang on skimmer with Eheim pump
Vectron uv 25w
Ototto Fluidizeded Filter

please can any one help order out my 4 chambers in Sump
i was thinking

1st chamber skimmer and live rock
2nd Mud bed with rock and plant
3rd deep sand bed live not sure how deep i should have (this would be largest chamber from the pic of sump)
4th retun to tank and Fluidized filter filled in carbon and return pump

not sure if the uv is needed ? and not sure what to do with small chamber in between large chamber heather & pads ?

is a good idea to have m mud & live sand together in two different section? i like the idea of the sump being full of live
please see pic of tank attached

please any advice needed as this first time since i was 16 now 29 equipment is from then and this is my first tank with a sump!!!

metasinapsis · 09/20/2013, 06:21 PM

Hi. Whats the volume of your tank and your skimmer for what volume is rated

CMD84 · 09/20/2013, 07:03 PM

hi the tank is 80 gallon and the sump is 32 gallon

the skimmer up to 250 gallon

CMD84 · 09/20/2013, 07:26 PM

hi i was thinking

to put live rock in 1st chamber with skimmer and 4th chamber with return pump and Phosphate Reactor carbon reactor going back into 4th chamber with return pump to tank

2nd chamber miracle mud and Caulerpa on top 3rd chamber 6 inch sand bed with chaeto on top

do think this would good or is it over the top

zachts · 09/20/2013, 07:52 PM

hard to see in the photo but if you put substrate in both middle chambers the smaller one will have the flow blocked. it only has two baffles between it and the larger middle chamber. Unless I can't see it in the photo. the smaller chamber could be devoted to only growing cheato. my personal favorite algae for controlling nutrients as it doesn't melt like caulerpa, nor is it on the USA invasive species list and illegal in most states.......

eznet2u · 09/21/2013, 05:11 PM

In my opinion, I would skip the Mud/sand all together.
First section Chaeto.
Second section Skimmer.
Third Live Rock.
Fourth Return Pump.

The Chaeto will slow water flow and allow the heavier solids to drop. Without anything in the bottom, it will be easy to clean it out.
The second section with the Skimmer will pull the finer solids into the skimmer.
By the time it gets to the third section, assuming you have a slow flow, most of the solids will have dropped out and clean water will go through the rock.

Adding sand/mud will only make it harder to clean.

CMD84 · 09/21/2013, 06:12 PM

thank you for the help people !!!! any more advice will be welcome !!!

SpartaReef · 09/21/2013, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eznet2u

In my opinion, I would skip the Mud/sand all together.
First section Chaeto.
Second section Skimmer.
Third Live Rock.
Fourth Return Pump.

The Chaeto will slow water flow and allow the heavier solids to drop. Without anything in the bottom, it will be easy to clean it out.
The second section with the Skimmer will pull the finer solids into the skimmer.
By the time it gets to the third section, assuming you have a slow flow, most of the solids will have dropped out and clean water will go through the rock.

Adding sand/mud will only make it harder to clean.

I think I need to revisit my sump... Lol

TundraGuy · 09/22/2013, 06:04 AM

I think skimmer first (no sucking up pods from the chaeto) then chaeto inthe second section and then frag section. But from the pix it looks like you have a tight fit into the sump from the bottom of the stand. What kind of clearance are you working with? I would think about building a taller stand before you get to far into the setup just to realize you have a hard time getting in and out of the sump for matance. I do think adding mud or sand would comes with problems but some reefers find adding sand to a removable bin will still give you the deep sand affect with the ability to simply pull it from the sump if it becomes undesirable down the road. Of course if you have the room to get it over the top of the sump and out of the stand. Think of it as a remote deep sand bed you can remove at will. There is a Brazilian tank with a similar concept (now I have to look for that thread stuning sps reef in brazil). I don't like the idea of rock in the third compartment unless you want to go minimal scape in the DT and use the extra sump space to make up for a lack of rock in the DT. I find when you have rock sitting in a sump you forget about it and it gets a build up of sludge under and a round it that you never clean and wounder why your battling nitrates. But if done right you can build some killer pillars and "Banzai" rock structures keeping the main tank open for only the pretty stuff. Good luck. Going to be watching this one.

CMD84 · 09/22/2013, 02:43 PM

hi Guys & ladies
thank you for all advice still a big learning cruve for me

first every one is right so far, which makes me think i am in the right place for help and advice !!!

my tank arrived this morning and i an really excited about it but i am gonna take things real slow this time and ask alot of questions and research before getting started

first time i tried keeping a salt water tank i was 16 i had it for 2 years and enjoyed it but was a bit to young to real understand how things work and wasted a lot of hard earned money from my first every job, now i am 30 i feel this is right age for a second go !!

first problem i have had is everyone is right the clearance in the sump is not great tried to place my RED SEA BERLIN SKIMMER in the first chamber and relieised its too big to fit with the EHEIM 1060 pump to run it so it is the hang on version so i can place on the back off the first chamber free up some space in the first chamber

please see pics attached to understand a bit better

i am still trying to find more information on what is best order for the sump and what should be included in sump so please please as much replys to this thread is a great help for me !!!

second question i have two Ehiem pumps from my first tank a
Ehiem 1060 & 1260 i was going to use the 1060 for skimmer and 1260 for the return is this best for my tank size ? or does the skimmer pump need to be larger if so should i get another 1260 to run the skimmer ?

TANK SIZE = 47"L X 18"W X 26" H
SUMP SIZE = 46"L X 13"W X 15"H

Third question what is best thing to included in the chambers still undecided still thinking

1st chamber skimmer on out side and live rock and eheim 1060 inside
2nd 2" sand bed with Chaeto
3rd deep sand bed 6"
4th retun to tank eheim 1260

i also have 2 Ototto Fluidizeded Filter which i was going to run in line one with carbon other with Phosphate remover small Ehiem pump circling from the 4th chamber back into the 4th chamber.

please people more advice needed asap

zachts · 09/23/2013, 12:16 PM

How do you get into the sump for maintenance? is there more room to reach over the top on the front of the stand? It doesn't look like there is much space there. I know from experiance that it will be a pain in the rear if you ever have to replace equimpent or get at it for cleaning. Make sure any equipment that goes into the sump can be put in and removed with the tank in place thru the doors on the stand.

I would also strongly recomment than any skimmers or reactors/filters be placed in the sump as they tend to leak from time to time and better to have them in the sump. Return/ciruclation pumps can be placed outside as long as they are know to not have issues leaking. (even without needing to drill the sump, this is how all mine work)

For the skimmer use whichever pump is rated for the skimmer or one that is slightly larger and put a valve on it to dial back or divert some flow to power other filters or as a retrun line. Use plenty of Union joints in your plumbing to make maintenance easier. True union ball valves are the best space savers for making pump connections, one on inlet and outlet and you can pull the pump without making a mess for maintenance or trying to remove tubing from barb fittings in place.

CMD84 · 02/24/2014, 06:54 PM

hi guys i am back with a update. thank you for your help from the above people who gave me some good advice !!!

i set up the above tank in the pic at the top of this post, which was standard tank bought of ebay uk secondhand,

every one was right no space in the stand to work it was a night mare for the first month i hated it !!! plus the tank had round corners which ruined the view in the tank !! it was a poor choice of tank from me !!

anyway i got on with it and started up the tank, i bought

20 kg of live sand for DT
20 KG of live sand for the sump
40kg of Fiji ultra live rock

i changed all the pipe work on the tank bought a new skimmer, new return pump, new reactor, LED light full cycle day night, auto top up, 2x mp 40 power heads.

the tank was looking good and running fine rock was cycling nicely in the tank, sump was doing fine i had 6 inch deep sand bed cycling in sump as well, as i deiced to try a refuge sump

this tank was running for 24 days before it cracked on me at the base of the tank !!

i had go local shop buy 6 large bins and put all rock in bin with water which i made up from the tank lucky it was a slow leak and i had no fish and i was at home .

any way it turns out i forgot to level the tank before filling up , what a dim mistake that was from me !!!

any way here are some pics of the set up please give your comments and i will be back with part 2 of the tank update

CMD84 · 02/24/2014, 06:59 PM

few pics of the crack

eznet2u · 02/24/2014, 08:55 PM

Before it gets too full...I would move the rocks on the sides so that you can easily fit a magfloat in between them and the glass.
Otherwise, you will have to do that area by hand.

09/22/2013, 06:04 AM	#9
TundraGuy MantisOholic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington DC Posts: 1,946	I think skimmer first (no sucking up pods from the chaeto) then chaeto inthe second section and then frag section. But from the pix it looks like you have a tight fit into the sump from the bottom of the stand. What kind of clearance are you working with? I would think about building a taller stand before you get to far into the setup just to realize you have a hard time getting in and out of the sump for matance. I do think adding mud or sand would comes with problems but some reefers find adding sand to a removable bin will still give you the deep sand affect with the ability to simply pull it from the sump if it becomes undesirable down the road. Of course if you have the room to get it over the top of the sump and out of the stand. Think of it as a remote deep sand bed you can remove at will. There is a Brazilian tank with a similar concept (now I have to look for that thread stuning sps reef in brazil). I don't like the idea of rock in the third compartment unless you want to go minimal scape in the DT and use the extra sump space to make up for a lack of rock in the DT. I find when you have rock sitting in a sump you forget about it and it gets a build up of sludge under and a round it that you never clean and wounder why your battling nitrates. But if done right you can build some killer pillars and "Banzai" rock structures keeping the main tank open for only the pretty stuff. Good luck. Going to be watching this one. __________________ No there is no such thing as over filtering a tank. Slow is smooth, smooth is steady, and steady is fast. Current Tank Info: Enough to be considered an addict.

09/20/2013, 06:21 PM	#2
metasinapsis Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Reynosa Posts: 64	Hi. Whats the volume of your tank and your skimmer for what volume is rated

09/20/2013, 07:03 PM	#3
CMD84 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 11	hi the tank is 80 gallon and the sump is 32 gallon the skimmer up to 250 gallon

09/20/2013, 07:26 PM	#4
CMD84 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 11	hi i was thinking to put live rock in 1st chamber with skimmer and 4th chamber with return pump and Phosphate Reactor carbon reactor going back into 4th chamber with return pump to tank 2nd chamber miracle mud and Caulerpa on top 3rd chamber 6 inch sand bed with chaeto on top do think this would good or is it over the top

09/20/2013, 07:52 PM	#5
zachts Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO. Posts: 3,259	hard to see in the photo but if you put substrate in both middle chambers the smaller one will have the flow blocked. it only has two baffles between it and the larger middle chamber. Unless I can't see it in the photo. the smaller chamber could be devoted to only growing cheato. my personal favorite algae for controlling nutrients as it doesn't melt like caulerpa, nor is it on the USA invasive species list and illegal in most states.......

09/21/2013, 05:11 PM	#6
eznet2u Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,135	In my opinion, I would skip the Mud/sand all together. First section Chaeto. Second section Skimmer. Third Live Rock. Fourth Return Pump. The Chaeto will slow water flow and allow the heavier solids to drop. Without anything in the bottom, it will be easy to clean it out. The second section with the Skimmer will pull the finer solids into the skimmer. By the time it gets to the third section, assuming you have a slow flow, most of the solids will have dropped out and clean water will go through the rock. Adding sand/mud will only make it harder to clean.

09/21/2013, 06:12 PM	#7
CMD84 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 11	thank you for the help people !!!! any more advice will be welcome !!!

09/23/2013, 12:16 PM	#11
zachts Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO. Posts: 3,259	How do you get into the sump for maintenance? is there more room to reach over the top on the front of the stand? It doesn't look like there is much space there. I know from experiance that it will be a pain in the rear if you ever have to replace equimpent or get at it for cleaning. Make sure any equipment that goes into the sump can be put in and removed with the tank in place thru the doors on the stand. I would also strongly recomment than any skimmers or reactors/filters be placed in the sump as they tend to leak from time to time and better to have them in the sump. Return/ciruclation pumps can be placed outside as long as they are know to not have issues leaking. (even without needing to drill the sump, this is how all mine work) For the skimmer use whichever pump is rated for the skimmer or one that is slightly larger and put a valve on it to dial back or divert some flow to power other filters or as a retrun line. Use plenty of Union joints in your plumbing to make maintenance easier. True union ball valves are the best space savers for making pump connections, one on inlet and outlet and you can pull the pump without making a mess for maintenance or trying to remove tubing from barb fittings in place.

02/24/2014, 08:55 PM	#14
eznet2u Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,135	Before it gets too full...I would move the rocks on the sides so that you can easily fit a magfloat in between them and the glass. Otherwise, you will have to do that area by hand.