Advice on new tank set up

puffer19 · 03/06/2014, 03:05 PM

Hey all, New to the forum, as of today

.. I am just looking for some advice as I am new to salt water keeping. I have had fresh water and brackish tanks for 5 years now, I currently have 5 running so im certainly not a beginner but I am to full marine.

Me and my husband decided to turn our 38 gallon bow into a reef tank, after much research, debate and talking with people we have decided to do a skimmer less tank.
Specs:
- 110 gallon Aqua Clear filter with aqua clear skimmer attached for surface gunk
- 2 500GPH powerheads
- 40 pounds of live sand (purchased right from someone's 300gallon matured running tank)
- 30 pounds of base rock
- 10 Pounds of live rock (from the same person I got the sand from)

So the tank was fully set up a week ago (Thursday Feb 27) with 2 snails bought from big als. I just bought the API marine testing kit yesterday and will be buying the reef version this weekend. I would have had those both earlier but my dog actually got very sick last week and now I have a HUGE vet bill. Anyways so i'm not planning on adding fish or corals for quite some time but I had a question about cycling.

When I tested the water for the first time yesterday I was expecting a spike in some level, showing the tank is cycling but these were the results

Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
PH: 8.0-8.2

I have been adding beneficial bacteria to help every day, the tank has been crystal clear since I set it up. Also Purple coralline algae is spreading in the tank, I see more and more spots every day. What is everyone's take on this? Has the cycle really haven't started yet? because it seems that way after the test results because you would think there would be at least a trace of something. I'm Going to be testing it every day now that I have the kit but I was just wondering what everyone thinks of this?

Thanks all

SuperNiketas · 03/06/2014, 03:11 PM

Well Im not an expert so you definitely need a second opinion here but if the rock and sand were already cured and most of the rock is base rock then you would have a relatively small dieoff compared to the water volume, thus resulting in a pretty small spike and a quicker cycle.

Browncoat · 03/06/2014, 03:15 PM

The cycle will not start without a source of ammonia. If you have live sand and rock from an established tank though you may never see any ammonia as long as you don't overstock or overfeed.
Google "fishless cycling". My suggestion though based on what you have said is to just start with one or two hardy inexpensive fish, feed lightly and keep an eye on the ammonia.

Also there is no drawback to running a protein skimmer only benefit. So do your tank a favor and get a used one off of craigslist when you've caught up with your vet bills. Running a skimmer will keep your water cleaner and in turn give you a wider margin of error when trying to keep a salt water tank. Using a hang on the back power filter is near pointless honestly and not to sound mean. It's just not going to do anything and if the sponges arent cleaned very regularly it will become a nitrate factory.

If I was going skimmerless I would just run a couple powerheads for circulation and do religious weekly partial water changes. A very light fish load will help here as well.

puffer19 · 03/06/2014, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNiketas

Well Im not an expert so you definitely need a second opinion here but if the rock and sand were already cured and most of the rock is base rock then you would have a relatively small dieoff compared to the water volume, thus resulting in a pretty small spike and a quicker cycle.

That's what I was thinking to. I know the tank probably wouldn't get cloudy because there wouldn't be a very high spike, compared to starting fresh. But it confused me last night to see everything come up 0. Ill be doing another test tonight and ill post the results. I got the 2 snails for the main purpose of helping to start the cycle. But its my impression that with already cured live rock and sand, that alone would be enough to start the cycle. So im thinking it would be next to impossible for the cycle to have not started by now..

puffer19 · 03/06/2014, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Browncoat

The cycle will not start without a source of ammonia. If you have live sand and rock from an established tank though you may never see any ammonia as long as you don't overstock or overfeed.
Google "fishless cycling". My suggestion though based on what you have said is to just start with one or two hardy inexpensive fish, feed lightly and keep an eye on the ammonia.

Yeah I was thinking about grabbing a clown this weekend. My LFS has some really nice looking ones. They tried to pressure me to buy one last week when I was getting my snails but I didn't because I wasn't sure how my tank was going to react at first since that was the very first day everything was set up. Im guessing the snails are not providing enough ammonia. I have some raw shrimp that I feed my puffers, I could throw one in there also and see if the ammonia spikes

RatReef · 03/06/2014, 05:47 PM

using fish is a bad idea, ammonia burn isn't pleasant for the fish, goto a dollar store and pick up a bottle of ammonia (no sufficant) shake the bottle, if it suds up don't use it...dose your tank to one or 2 ppm.

codyreed29 · 03/06/2014, 08:27 PM

You will probably see some cycle as using established sand will cause one disturbing a sandbed can be bad using cycle rock will have some biobacteria. using a fish or a lot of cleanup crew can start cycles aswell and waste fish food crap if you start this way I would suggest a slow addition meaning 1 fish 1-2 weeks as a tank will have to build up bio to take care of stuff slow stocking is key. You overload nitrates will kill your stuff. overstocking will cause nitrates diatoms and algea so just slowly stock which you should quarantine everything anyhow and slowly add.

you can use a fish to cycle give it a couple weeks before adding more tho I wouldn't buy n anything expensive at first could die if it dies throw it out wait a couple weeks and try again.

Crusinjimbo · 03/07/2014, 05:11 AM

Haste is not applicable to a well established reef tank. Throw a small piece of raw fish or shrimp in for a few days and let the cycle run complete. Patience works. I would also get a quality skimmer and a sump.

03/06/2014, 03:05 PM	#1
puffer19 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 3	Advice on new tank set up Hey all, New to the forum, as of today.. I am just looking for some advice as I am new to salt water keeping. I have had fresh water and brackish tanks for 5 years now, I currently have 5 running so im certainly not a beginner but I am to full marine. Me and my husband decided to turn our 38 gallon bow into a reef tank, after much research, debate and talking with people we have decided to do a skimmer less tank. Specs: - 110 gallon Aqua Clear filter with aqua clear skimmer attached for surface gunk - 2 500GPH powerheads - 40 pounds of live sand (purchased right from someone's 300gallon matured running tank) - 30 pounds of base rock - 10 Pounds of live rock (from the same person I got the sand from) So the tank was fully set up a week ago (Thursday Feb 27) with 2 snails bought from big als. I just bought the API marine testing kit yesterday and will be buying the reef version this weekend. I would have had those both earlier but my dog actually got very sick last week and now I have a HUGE vet bill. Anyways so i'm not planning on adding fish or corals for quite some time but I had a question about cycling. When I tested the water for the first time yesterday I was expecting a spike in some level, showing the tank is cycling but these were the results Ammonia: 0 Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0 PH: 8.0-8.2 I have been adding beneficial bacteria to help every day, the tank has been crystal clear since I set it up. Also Purple coralline algae is spreading in the tank, I see more and more spots every day. What is everyone's take on this? Has the cycle really haven't started yet? because it seems that way after the test results because you would think there would be at least a trace of something. I'm Going to be testing it every day now that I have the kit but I was just wondering what everyone thinks of this? Thanks all

03/06/2014, 03:15 PM	#3
Browncoat Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Torrance, CA Posts: 311	The cycle will not start without a source of ammonia. If you have live sand and rock from an established tank though you may never see any ammonia as long as you don't overstock or overfeed. Google "fishless cycling". My suggestion though based on what you have said is to just start with one or two hardy inexpensive fish, feed lightly and keep an eye on the ammonia. Also there is no drawback to running a protein skimmer only benefit. So do your tank a favor and get a used one off of craigslist when you've caught up with your vet bills. Running a skimmer will keep your water cleaner and in turn give you a wider margin of error when trying to keep a salt water tank. Using a hang on the back power filter is near pointless honestly and not to sound mean. It's just not going to do anything and if the sponges arent cleaned very regularly it will become a nitrate factory. If I was going skimmerless I would just run a couple powerheads for circulation and do religious weekly partial water changes. A very light fish load will help here as well. Last edited by Browncoat; 03/06/2014 at 03:21 PM.

03/06/2014, 08:27 PM	#7
codyreed29 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 892	You will probably see some cycle as using established sand will cause one disturbing a sandbed can be bad using cycle rock will have some biobacteria. using a fish or a lot of cleanup crew can start cycles aswell and waste fish food crap if you start this way I would suggest a slow addition meaning 1 fish 1-2 weeks as a tank will have to build up bio to take care of stuff slow stocking is key. You overload nitrates will kill your stuff. overstocking will cause nitrates diatoms and algea so just slowly stock which you should quarantine everything anyhow and slowly add. you can use a fish to cycle give it a couple weeks before adding more tho I wouldn't buy n anything expensive at first could die if it dies throw it out wait a couple weeks and try again. __________________ 27 Rimless cube DIY lights and sump mag 5 cad lights pls 100 jeabo rw4 jeabo dp4

03/07/2014, 05:11 AM	#8
Crusinjimbo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wesley Chapel FL Posts: 751	Haste is not applicable to a well established reef tank. Throw a small piece of raw fish or shrimp in for a few days and let the cycle run complete. Patience works. I would also get a quality skimmer and a sump. __________________ Jimbo 13.5G EVO

03/06/2014, 03:11 PM	#2
SuperNiketas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 23	Well Im not an expert so you definitely need a second opinion here but if the rock and sand were already cured and most of the rock is base rock then you would have a relatively small dieoff compared to the water volume, thus resulting in a pretty small spike and a quicker cycle.

03/06/2014, 05:47 PM	#6
RatReef Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Leclaire IA Posts: 65	using fish is a bad idea, ammonia burn isn't pleasant for the fish, goto a dollar store and pick up a bottle of ammonia (no sufficant) shake the bottle, if it suds up don't use it...dose your tank to one or 2 ppm.