Ich and how to get rid of it using copper based medication. - Page 5

Ach1llesTang · 01/18/2014, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnumair

any ammonia reducing chemicals will break down the safe form pf cupramine to a toxic form which can kill fish but after doing 40% water change that may not be the issue. i think hippo was well infested and already on its way out.
clown will eat but not a whole lot but as long as they are eating you will be fine. try some garlic extract mixed in food.
Paraguard will not rid ich.

bnumair, I must ask is seachem stability OK while using cupramine? I have a 90 Gallon QT with Live Rock and use stability to help with bio filtration. I have the seachem ammonia badge and haven't had to do a water change yet, going on 2 weeks. Wouldn't stability be an ammonia reducing agent considering it is suppose to mimic good bacteria? Apologize for stupid questions :-) Anyway, having great success so far with cupramine on my Achilles/ Powder Blue and Hippo. This is the first time I have ever practiced QT procedures and using cupramine. All I can say is I see why QT is preached so hard. Its because it works!

bnumair · 01/18/2014, 06:19 PM

Hi Ach1llesTang
Cupramine can be used in conjunction with Stability in order to treat for ich. However, my recommendation would be to dose the Stability at least several days before beginning with the Cupramine treatment. Also its important to make sure there is enough space/place for bacteria to colonize at thus using ceramic media or Seachem Matrix in conjunction wouldnt be a bad idea.
Cupramine will kill about 20-30% of the existing bacteria, this is why i preach boosting the bacteria colony first before treating with copper. When you have a boosted level of bacteria say 110-120% and some die off due to copper you will still be left with about 80+% of bacteria which will regroup and grow and double their size within 15 hours.
Hope it answers the question.
Safe Reefing, Good Luck.

Note: I am glad ur previous qt/treatment procedures went well, i hope my guide can help others accomplishing same results. Qt is a must.
Difference between ammonia reducing agents and stability is that reducing agents are chemicals that neutralize ammonia from toxic to non toxic form or mostly bind the dangerous ammonia while stability is stands of beneficial bacteria that colonize the filter media for aiding in reduction of ammonia through normal natural process.

scubadan206 · 05/03/2014, 10:34 PM

Hi. I am in the planning stages of a large system with multiple tanks. I am planning a Q system of close to 200 gallons. The question is this. If using cupramine, are we sure that copper absorbing additives [Cuprasorb] remove all the copper out of the substrate? Things like the rock and sponge filters. I am planning to have this Q system tied into the main sump when not in use for new fish. When new additions come in, the Q will be isolated from the main system. This way I will keep live rock and sponges fully cycled for use when ready to add new fish.
Also, is it wise to use cupramine prophylactically on fish that appear healthy? I have 5 tangs and a rabbit fish in a 55 now and have lost two fish last week from the system. The midas blenny on Wednesday appeared to have ick. I think it may actually been the sand it was sitting in.

All other fish seem happy and healthy, and show no signs of infestation. This was my first attempt at Q for larger fish, and I may have tried to do too many at once, ending up with an ammonia spike. Avery small amount of it seems to have killed the Powder blue last week.

Appreciate it.
Daniel.

MellowReefer · 05/04/2014, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubadan206

Hi. I am in the planning stages of a large system with multiple tanks. I am planning a Q system of close to 200 gallons. The question is this. If using cupramine, are we sure that copper absorbing additives [Cuprasorb] remove all the copper out of the substrate? Things like the rock and sponge filters. I am planning to have this Q system tied into the main sump when not in use for new fish. When new additions come in, the Q will be isolated from the main system. This way I will keep live rock and sponges fully cycled for use when ready to add new fish.
Also, is it wise to use cupramine prophylactically on fish that appear healthy? I have 5 tangs and a rabbit fish in a 55 now and have lost two fish last week from the system. The midas blenny on Wednesday appeared to have ick. I think it may actually been the sand it was sitting in.

All other fish seem happy and healthy, and show no signs of infestation. This was my first attempt at Q for larger fish, and I may have tried to do too many at once, ending up with an ammonia spike. Avery small amount of it seems to have killed the Powder blue last week.

Appreciate it.
Daniel.

You should not use live rock with copper because its very hard to keep the copper level consistent since you don't know how much the rock will absorb. Also it might hold some copper even after removal with cuprisorb, so you should never reuse rock or any porous material that you've used with copper. Sponges are fine to use, and many people get a supply of sponges and keep one in their sump at all times,but once you use it in your QT never put it back in your sump. Just not worth the risk of copper leaching out later.

I would definitely not recommend tying in your QT with your main system.

Not to derail this thread, but I've been using the tank transfer method and once I got used to it I really like this way better than cupramine and I think you're less likely to lose fish with this method. Check out the threads on it.

bnumair · 05/04/2014, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MellowReefer

You should not use live rock with copper because its very hard to keep the copper level consistent since you don't know how much the rock will absorb. Also it might hold some copper even after removal with cuprisorb, so you should never reuse rock or any porous material that you've used with copper. Sponges are fine to use, and many people get a supply of sponges and keep one in their sump at all times,but once you use it in your QT never put it back in your sump. Just not worth the risk of copper leaching out later.

I would definitely not recommend tying in your QT with your main system.

Not to derail this thread, but I've been using the tank transfer method and once I got used to it I really like this way better than cupramine and I think you're less likely to lose fish with this method. Check out the threads on it.

+1 i agree with all stated here.

scubadan206 · 05/04/2014, 10:15 AM

BUGGER!

I think I'll rethink my system a bit and do more of a hospital tank separately. Then tie the separate, larger tank into the display as more as an acclimation tank. Used to get finicky fish used to the immediate tank-mates that they might otherwise fight with. I will also not try to Q 9 fish together again. Dan Feig has had amazing success adding aggressive tangs two by two. He uses a separate hospital tank, and a "quarantine" tank tied into the main system to keep fish together for up to three months. This was more my inspiration. He has added multiple pairs that go into his main display as best friends rather than adversaries.
I read the thread on tank transfer method a while back. Seems promising, but not quite sufficient for successful treatment.
Thanks. Daniel.

01/18/2014, 06:19 PM	#102
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	Hi Ach1llesTang Cupramine can be used in conjunction with Stability in order to treat for ich. However, my recommendation would be to dose the Stability at least several days before beginning with the Cupramine treatment. Also its important to make sure there is enough space/place for bacteria to colonize at thus using ceramic media or Seachem Matrix in conjunction wouldnt be a bad idea. Cupramine will kill about 20-30% of the existing bacteria, this is why i preach boosting the bacteria colony first before treating with copper. When you have a boosted level of bacteria say 110-120% and some die off due to copper you will still be left with about 80+% of bacteria which will regroup and grow and double their size within 15 hours. Hope it answers the question. Safe Reefing, Good Luck. Note: I am glad ur previous qt/treatment procedures went well, i hope my guide can help others accomplishing same results. Qt is a must. Difference between ammonia reducing agents and stability is that reducing agents are chemicals that neutralize ammonia from toxic to non toxic form or mostly bind the dangerous ammonia while stability is stands of beneficial bacteria that colonize the filter media for aiding in reduction of ammonia through normal natural process. __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE Last edited by bnumair; 01/18/2014 at 06:30 PM.

05/03/2014, 10:34 PM	#103
scubadan206 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Kenosha WI Posts: 985	Hi. I am in the planning stages of a large system with multiple tanks. I am planning a Q system of close to 200 gallons. The question is this. If using cupramine, are we sure that copper absorbing additives [Cuprasorb] remove all the copper out of the substrate? Things like the rock and sponge filters. I am planning to have this Q system tied into the main sump when not in use for new fish. When new additions come in, the Q will be isolated from the main system. This way I will keep live rock and sponges fully cycled for use when ready to add new fish. Also, is it wise to use cupramine prophylactically on fish that appear healthy? I have 5 tangs and a rabbit fish in a 55 now and have lost two fish last week from the system. The midas blenny on Wednesday appeared to have ick. I think it may actually been the sand it was sitting in. All other fish seem happy and healthy, and show no signs of infestation. This was my first attempt at Q for larger fish, and I may have tried to do too many at once, ending up with an ammonia spike. Avery small amount of it seems to have killed the Powder blue last week. Appreciate it. Daniel.

05/04/2014, 10:15 AM	#106
scubadan206 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Kenosha WI Posts: 985	BUGGER! I think I'll rethink my system a bit and do more of a hospital tank separately. Then tie the separate, larger tank into the display as more as an acclimation tank. Used to get finicky fish used to the immediate tank-mates that they might otherwise fight with. I will also not try to Q 9 fish together again. Dan Feig has had amazing success adding aggressive tangs two by two. He uses a separate hospital tank, and a "quarantine" tank tied into the main system to keep fish together for up to three months. This was more my inspiration. He has added multiple pairs that go into his main display as best friends rather than adversaries. I read the thread on tank transfer method a while back. Seems promising, but not quite sufficient for successful treatment. Thanks. Daniel.