Old Tank Syndrome at 7 months? - Page 2

XStroX · 05/03/2014, 01:32 PM

I only have Chemi-Pure Elite because it was recommended by the LFS when I first setup the tank. They were just trying to make some extra money I now realize. Then a month later when I read 0.25 Phosphate (my test didn't quite show it that high but also didn't show zero) the LFS recommended Phosguard as well so that is when I added it. I have seen a few people talking about both on the forums so I never removed them.

Sugar Magnolia · 05/03/2014, 01:40 PM

Paul, you're reading too much into this. He's not dosing or tweaking or chasing water parameters. He's trying to lower his nitrates. Simple as that. The only way to do that is with frequent water changes and aggressive skimming. I've been using a ChemiPure product for well over 11 years with excellent results and I have no problem advising that it has worked well for me. I also religiously did weekly water changes for years with excellent results.

OP, if you can find a skimmer that is rated 10-25g higher than your tank volume would help.

duperdave · 05/03/2014, 04:18 PM

I still think the test ratings are incorrectAPI tests are notorious for being incorrect on nitrates

Paul B · 05/03/2014, 05:09 PM

Adrienne, As I said there is nothing wrong with ChemiPure or Phosgard. But his tank is brand new and will even out. It needs time for the bacteria to grow in sufficient numbers to lower nitrates and phosphates on their own, as they will. He already changes a lot of water to lower nitrates and I feel his nitrates are not that high for such a new tank. You can spend a fortune on this stuff but most of it is not needed. In an older tank that has nitrates and you want to lower them then it is fine to use chemicals but he is spending money on things he does not need. It won't hurt, but it is not needed. My nitrates are much higher, should I add ChemiPure and Phosgard? I never have and my corals are doing fine. And I hardly change water.
I realize that you are a very good aquarist and give good advice. But I have not been using ChemiPure for over 40 years and that also worked for me.

But it doesn't matter, if he uses it or not, in time his tank will age enough to work out on it's own.

Paul B · 05/03/2014, 05:10 PM

Sorry double post, but I don't know how I did that. I must have had an old person moment.

Stolireef · 05/03/2014, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B

Adrienne, As I said there is nothing wrong with ChemiPure or Phosgard. But his tank is brand new and will even out. It needs time for the bacteria to grow in sufficient numbers to lower nitrates and phosphates on their own, as they will. He already changes a lot of water to lower nitrates and I feel his nitrates are not that high for such a new tank. You can spend a fortune on this stuff but most of it is not needed. In an older tank that has nitrates and you want to lower them then it is fine to use chemicals but he is spending money on things he does not need. It won't hurt, but it is not needed. My nitrates are much higher, should I add ChemiPure and Phosgard? I never have and my corals are doing fine. And I hardly change water.
I realize that you are a very good aquarist and give good advice. But I have not been using ChemiPure for over 40 years and that also worked for me.

But it doesn't matter, if he uses it or not, in time his tank will age enough to work out on it's own.

What he said.

XStroX · 05/04/2014, 01:41 PM

Thank you all for the recommendations. I'm going to try to take as much of advice that has been given as possible although some compromises are needed.

I'm going to switch to 20% water changes every 3 weeks or so. I should be able to manage that without any changes to my water changing method.

I also pulled out the Phosguard for now and will just go with a Chemi Pure Elite pouch. Perhaps that will make a bit more phosphate available for the Chaeto and algae on the scrubber.

I'm going to cut back on feeding a bit unless I start to see my fish getting skinny. They all look extremely well fed right now...

Lastly, I'm going to stop worrying so much about high Nitrate levels although I will get it tested at least once at the LFS to see if it really is as high as my API test has been showing. Hopefully as Paul B mentioned the tank will correct this itself over time. Or perhaps they stay high but if it isn't hurting anything then no harm done.

Thanks again everyone!

dkeller_nc · 05/04/2014, 02:29 PM

The one item I might suggest that you buy for your piece of mind would be an accurate nitrate kit - the Salifert one is cheap, easy to use, and accurate.

Paul is correct that young tanks tend to go through fluctuations in water chemistry, algae outbreaks, etc..., and it's not good to "chase numbers". That said, there are some circumstances where water chemistry issues are worth some degree of intervention by the aquarist.

In your case, I would buy an accurate test kit and simply keep an eye on the levels over the course of a few weeks. Your situation is somewhat unusual in that you've a very high bioload from a really big fish for the tank size, and a very small skimmer. That in and of itself could potentially result in an ever increasing nitrate load; the only way you'll know for sure is to watch and wait.

kurt_n · 05/04/2014, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XStroX

...
And a 10% water change a week by carrying 5 gallon buckets up and down stairs does not sound easy. I would just be asking for a handle to break or for the water to spill. ....

Since I posted earlier, looks like everyone else is putting in some good advice. I'd still recommend a 10-20% water change at least every couple weeks though. As far as the water changes ... a 7g water change is two buckets filled with 3.5g of water - 25 lbs or so. I'm a weakling and I've been doing just this for 7+ years! Water storage in the basement/garage, tank on the 2nd floor. And the old water goes back down the same way to the laundry room sink. No spills, breaks or accidents in 7 years but maybe I'm just lucky!

The pump idea sounds good, but in my experience pumping such a small amount of water upstairs might sound nice and easy, but stop and think about how much water you've got just in that line going upstairs and how many gallons/hr that pump can pump. Just saying that the potential for flood seems much higher in that situation than with a 'manually controlled' bucket!

Of course, if you've got back problems then that's a different story. But I'd give the bucket idea a couple tries at least before you go all out on the pump. I think you'll find it easier than you think.

05/03/2014, 01:40 PM	#27
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	Paul, you're reading too much into this. He's not dosing or tweaking or chasing water parameters. He's trying to lower his nitrates. Simple as that. The only way to do that is with frequent water changes and aggressive skimming. I've been using a ChemiPure product for well over 11 years with excellent results and I have no problem advising that it has worked well for me. I also religiously did weekly water changes for years with excellent results. OP, if you can find a skimmer that is rated 10-25g higher than your tank volume would help. __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.

05/03/2014, 04:18 PM	#28
duperdave Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: fredericksburg, VA Posts: 283	I still think the test ratings are incorrectAPI tests are notorious for being incorrect on nitrates __________________ 55 gal.dt 20gal.sump.aquaeruousa 135 protien skimmer ,hydor 725 gph return,2-hydor 600 gph , and1 tunze 6045 mechanically adjustable circulating pumps, 65 lb liverock ,2AI hydra lights ,jbj ato Sq

05/03/2014, 05:09 PM	#29
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	Adrienne, As I said there is nothing wrong with ChemiPure or Phosgard. But his tank is brand new and will even out. It needs time for the bacteria to grow in sufficient numbers to lower nitrates and phosphates on their own, as they will. He already changes a lot of water to lower nitrates and I feel his nitrates are not that high for such a new tank. You can spend a fortune on this stuff but most of it is not needed. In an older tank that has nitrates and you want to lower them then it is fine to use chemicals but he is spending money on things he does not need. It won't hurt, but it is not needed. My nitrates are much higher, should I add ChemiPure and Phosgard? I never have and my corals are doing fine. And I hardly change water. I realize that you are a very good aquarist and give good advice. But I have not been using ChemiPure for over 40 years and that also worked for me. But it doesn't matter, if he uses it or not, in time his tank will age enough to work out on it's own. __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

05/03/2014, 05:10 PM	#30
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	Sorry double post, but I don't know how I did that. I must have had an old person moment. __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

05/03/2014, 01:32 PM	#26
XStroX Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 214	I only have Chemi-Pure Elite because it was recommended by the LFS when I first setup the tank. They were just trying to make some extra money I now realize. Then a month later when I read 0.25 Phosphate (my test didn't quite show it that high but also didn't show zero) the LFS recommended Phosguard as well so that is when I added it. I have seen a few people talking about both on the forums so I never removed them.

05/04/2014, 01:41 PM	#32
XStroX Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 214	Thank you all for the recommendations. I'm going to try to take as much of advice that has been given as possible although some compromises are needed. I'm going to switch to 20% water changes every 3 weeks or so. I should be able to manage that without any changes to my water changing method. I also pulled out the Phosguard for now and will just go with a Chemi Pure Elite pouch. Perhaps that will make a bit more phosphate available for the Chaeto and algae on the scrubber. I'm going to cut back on feeding a bit unless I start to see my fish getting skinny. They all look extremely well fed right now... Lastly, I'm going to stop worrying so much about high Nitrate levels although I will get it tested at least once at the LFS to see if it really is as high as my API test has been showing. Hopefully as Paul B mentioned the tank will correct this itself over time. Or perhaps they stay high but if it isn't hurting anything then no harm done. Thanks again everyone!

05/04/2014, 02:29 PM	#33
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	The one item I might suggest that you buy for your piece of mind would be an accurate nitrate kit - the Salifert one is cheap, easy to use, and accurate. Paul is correct that young tanks tend to go through fluctuations in water chemistry, algae outbreaks, etc..., and it's not good to "chase numbers". That said, there are some circumstances where water chemistry issues are worth some degree of intervention by the aquarist. In your case, I would buy an accurate test kit and simply keep an eye on the levels over the course of a few weeks. Your situation is somewhat unusual in that you've a very high bioload from a really big fish for the tank size, and a very small skimmer. That in and of itself could potentially result in an ever increasing nitrate load; the only way you'll know for sure is to watch and wait.