How to add a refugium to existing system?

[droog]

Hi,

My current system is a 135g DT and 16g sump, total system volume approx 150g. The sump is jammed in the stand and the space inside is taken up by my skimmer, return pump etc.

I would like to add a refugium to my system to grow macro algae and pods so am thinking of using a separate tank hidden in a standalone piece of furniture next to the main DT. A few questions

1] What size refugium would work best in terms of volume and shape / dimensions? I want something that will be effective for biological filtration but (generally speaking) the smaller the better

2] Whats the best way to go about plumbing?
I was thinning of a lowish flow pump in the sump to refrugium, and maybe plumb the overflow back to the main sump

I would have thought this was a fairly common question / idea, but I have not been able to find answers by searching here, so maybe there is a more common or better way of doing this.

My other option would be a replace the existing sump with a custom build, but the dimensions of the stand and equipment would not change, so I would need to do something really cool with the sump to generate a refugium of any volume. Are there custom sump makers that could help with this?

-droog

[johnyfalco]

Originally Posted by droog

Hi,
Are there custom sump makers that could help with this?

-droog

Jeff at LifeReef springs to mind. Very helpful.

[ca1ore]

Plumbing a separate tank, regardless of its intended purpose, is quite straightforward as long as it is above the sump utilizing overflow drains. The trouble you may have is that your existing sump is quite small relative to the display volume, and another tank in the system will increase the amount of overflow water that sump must hold in the event of power loss. I generally don't run any of my tanks with a sump less than 25% of my display with a third preferred.

[billdogg]

I use a 120g tank for the refugium on my 150DT. Although it is in another room from the main tank, I spend at least as much time looking in it for new interesting things as I do the DT. I would consider setting it up as a "display" refugium rather than trying to hide it someplace.

Plumbing, as mentioned above - is as simple as can be. I use a DIY manifold to feed both the DT and refugium so there is no need for a second pump.

Oh - and I agree 1000% that you need a bigger sump!

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by billdogg

I use a 120g tank for the refugium on my 150DT. Although it is in another room from the main tank, I spend at least as much time looking in it for new interesting things as I do the DT. I would consider setting it up as a "display" refugium rather than trying to hide it someplace.

That must be cool! I did a 'display' refugium with a 180 many years ago (on a 300 display) and it was the only time I actually felt that my fuge was big enough to really affect the system - both in terms of nutrient removal and pod production.

[droog]

Originally Posted by johnyfalco

Jeff at LifeReef springs to mind. Very helpful.

Thanks, I checked their website. Looks very interesting, I might use them.

-droog

[droog]

To responders in posts #3, #4

I had not thought about making a "display" refugium. Interesting concept.

1/3 of the system volume would give me about 50g and there are lots of options in that size range. Would a "long" rimless design with a canopy for refugium lighting work well here?

Any photos of "display refrugiums" - I assumed that a well establish refugium would look ugly but that might not necessarily be the case.

-droog

[ryeguyy84]

Here is a pic of under my 60g cube. Not much room so I tee'd the pipe off the displays overflow and and used a uniseal to get the water into the sump. Fuge is on the left in the pic. Since it's higher than the sump it was pretty easy.

I didn't want to use any extra pumps since space is limited down there.



Edit: I should add the "overflow" is a flipped down elbow with a small hole drilled in it for air. If the water goes to high it makes a full siphon and flushed like a toilet, so I adjust the flow and it's been rock solid for almost a year.

Granted this was the last one:

[droog]

Awseome, thanks for posting the pictures. Some good ideas there

Originally Posted by ryeguyy84

Edit: I should add the "overflow" is a flipped down elbow with a small hole drilled in it for air. If the water goes to high it makes a full siphon and flushed like a toilet, so I adjust the flow and it's been rock solid for almost a year.

Had no idea you could do an overflow like that. Does the elbow got through the tank in the latest sump? It seems to go through the middle in your older plastic container. Looks like a good idea, I may copy that :-)

-droog

[GhostCon1]

Originally Posted by droog

Awseome, thanks for posting the pictures. Some good ideas there



Had no idea you could do an overflow like that. Does the elbow got through the tank in the latest sump? It seems to go through the middle in your older plastic container. Looks like a good idea, I may copy that :-)

-droog

While that is not mine, I can tell you that the pvc pipe you are referring to in the back is his overflow. The pipe closest to the viewer is the drain from the DT, and the pvc pipe in the back of the refugium is the overflow that is gravity fed to the sump.

[ReefingWerewolf]

Hiding a refugium in a piece of furniture then having a pipe running from under your tank seems sketchy. And a new sump sounds like a hassle. I say new display!!! You could keep macro algae as long as maybe something cool but unsafe for your reef such as a carpet nem or a trigger or some sort. You have a world of options.

Good luck

[ReefingWerewolf]

By the way make sure any fish you put in your refugium doesn't eat plants.

[ReefingWerewolf]

Google'd it and this was da first good pic I found:

http://www.saltwateraquariumlighting.com/refugium.jpg

[ReefingWerewolf]

Thought the link didnt work but nvm.

[droog]

Originally Posted by ReefingWerewolf

Hiding a refugium in a piece of furniture then having a pipe running from under your tank seems sketchy. And a new sump sounds like a hassle. I say new display!!! You could keep macro algae as long as maybe something cool but unsafe for your reef such as a carpet nem or a trigger or some sort. You have a world of options.

Good luck

I have a sump in the tank stand which is open backed. If the refugium is hidden inside another tank stand plumbed with flexible tubing round the back, it can be hidden. Agree its a little bogus, but I think its workable.

Agree a new sump is hassle but less "bogus". Speaking to LifeReef about that

Originally Posted by ReefingWerewolf

By the way make sure any fish you put in your refugium doesn't eat plants.

I don't plan to put any fish in the refrugium (unless maybe they are being sent to the fugue for being naught in the DT).

Originally Posted by ReefingWerewolf

Google'd it and this was da first good pic I found:
http://www.saltwateraquariumlighting.com/refugium.jpg

Thanks for that. I don't really see how that is working. It it simply a tank-within-a-tank, such that the smaller tank overflows into its container?

Does that work? I saw a friend that did something like that in his sump, but I don't have space to do that. Not sure if it would work, would expect flow inside to be very low? I'm a beginner to this stuff, so could be missing some simple stuff here...

-droog

[ryeguyy84]

Originally Posted by droog

Awseome, thanks for posting the pictures. Some good ideas there







Had no idea you could do an overflow like that. Does the elbow got through the tank in the latest sump? It seems to go through the middle in your older plastic container. Looks like a good idea, I may copy that :-)



-droog

It's the exact same setup, just the new one is taller and the elbow is further down so it's harder to see. I'll take a a pic above to give you a better idea of how it works

[ryeguyy84]

Pics from above:


And the side(ish):

[droog]

Very cool. Think I will copy this. Did you drill the tank yourself, or get a LFS to do for you? Basically it needs drilling, PVC pipe fitting then sealing right?

I could use the chiller compartment of my sump for this... the overflow would need to be a little longer, but I could use flex tubing or longer PVC tube...

The markup in your postings seems broken, but that could be an issue with my browser, not sure. Anyway, can get the pictures from the URLs

-Droog

[Sleepiness]

A similar fuge setup. I have posted this a bunch of times on this forum as an example of using separate tank for the fuge. This is under my 72g bow front DT.
Before skimmer

After skimmer

[Donkeykong]

What are the dimensions of your 135g display that only a 16g sump fits under it? Seems like you should be able to fit a larger sump under that big of a tank, is it just because there is a small door that you can fit a bigger sump? If so you could drain the tank move it away from the wall and then slide a larger sump in thru the open back.

[droog]

Originally Posted by Donkeykong

What are the dimensions of your 135g display that only a 16g sump fits under it? Seems like you should be able to fit a larger sump under that big of a tank, is it just because there is a small door that you can fit a bigger sump? If so you could drain the tank move it away from the wall and then slide a larger sump in thru the open back.

Its a RedSea Max S-500 (all-in-one system). DT tank is 119g and sump 16g for 135g total. I quoted the total volume instead of the DT volume, but your point still holds. The sump is small for the size of DT.

Seems fixable with adjoining tank and overflow posted by the kind folks here.

-droog

[droog]

Originally Posted by Sleepiness

A similar fuge setup. I have posted this a bunch of times on this forum as an example of using separate tank for the fuge. This is under my 72g bow front DT.
Before skimmer

Sleepiness - I did not find them in my searching, but thank you very much for taking the time to post again. Very much appreciated. I will be doing something similar on my redSea all-in one tank.

My refugium will go in the "dedicated chiller" compartment (haha). The plumbing will need to go about 1.2m from the overflow to the return section of my pump. Hopefully that can be done and still have a decent amount of turnover.

-droog

[ryeguyy84]

Originally Posted by droog

Very cool. Think I will copy this. Did you drill the tank yourself, or get a LFS to do for you? Basically it needs drilling, PVC pipe fitting then sealing right?

I could use the chiller compartment of my sump for this... the overflow would need to be a little longer, but I could use flex tubing or longer PVC tube...

The markup in your postings seems broken, but that could be an issue with my browser, not sure. Anyway, can get the pictures from the URLs

-Droog

I had Dan at DDacrylics make the tank and drill the hole for me. I gave him dimensions and got it shipped to me in about a week.

ddacrylics at gmail dot com

[droog]

Cool, thanks for the info. I just measured up and found another problem. The side wall of my sump is higher than the maximum height at the other side of the cabinet. So the gravity overflow will not work for me.

-droog

[ryeguyy84]

Drill the sump?