Stressed Dog Face Puffer

SnoopyDaPimp · 06/15/2014, 01:51 PM

So before I get castrated I assure you that I did search and the only thread that I could find similar did not end well for the fish.

Got up this morning to say hi to Steve my dog face puffer and he looks bloated and his color has dramatically changed to dark brown and white from his normal light brown. I see no signs of a sickness just looking really stressed all of a sudden. I dropped the lighting down from 80% down to 50% in hope this helps him relax. His only tank mate is a zebra eel who is looking totally fine.

I don't have a dedicated qt but was thinking of making a quick qt but I don't want to move him if he is already extremely stressed. Below is a picture for reference.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Tank info
110g FOWLR
Two 48' Current USA LED lights
Water Temp 77 Degrees
Ph 8.2
Nitrate 0
Nitrite <.5
Alkalinity 300 ppm
Ammonia <.5
Salinity 1.024

Sick Steve photo SteveDogFace_zpsd60c7a29.jpg

SnoopyDaPimp · 06/15/2014, 02:01 PM

Additionally, prior to this I have had no problems with him eating. Always very active until today.

fishhuman · 06/16/2014, 09:32 AM

What size tank and what are you feeding him

fishhuman · 06/16/2014, 09:33 AM

Sorry i did not see it said 110 gallons

caribfan · 06/16/2014, 09:49 AM

Is the tank established? Your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate numbers resemble that of a tank that is in the middle of its cycle. If there is truly ammonia in a detectable amount, I would add prime or the equivalent type of ammonia neutralizing product.

SnoopyDaPimp · 06/16/2014, 10:18 AM

The tank is established so that was part of my concern. I woke up this morning and am now seeing some tell tell signs of ich now. There is nothing on his body, gills or eyes but his pectoral and dorsal fins have a few white spots starting to develop. I am going to be setting up an emergency qt and move him from the display tank here shortly.

SnoopyDaPimp · 06/16/2014, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caribfan

Is the tank established? Your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate numbers resemble that of a tank that is in the middle of its cycle.

The ammonia level very well could be lower but it is hard for me to tell since I am color blind. I usually ask my wife if she is home but that was not the case yesterday.

sandwi54 · 06/16/2014, 10:34 AM

Please give us a history of your tank. How long has the tank been set up and how long has it been cycled? How many fish are in there and what's the time frame of adding them?

If you have measurable amount of ammonia and nitrite, and 0 nitrate, your tank has not been cycled and your fish are being poisoned right now. Please put prime into the tank to detoxy ammonia and wait for your tank to cycle.

Regarding ich, you'll need to quarantine and treat ALL of the fish, and leave the DT fallow for 10 weeks. You will also need to quarantine and treat all new fish you get so you won't get encounter the same situation again.

SnoopyDaPimp · 06/16/2014, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandwi54

Please give us a history of your tank. How long has the tank been set up and how long has it been cycled? How many fish are in there and what's the time frame of adding them?

If you have measurable amount of ammonia and nitrite, and 0 nitrate, your tank has not been cycled and your fish are being poisoned right now. Please put prime into the tank to detoxy ammonia and wait for your tank to cycle.

Regarding ich, you'll need to quarantine and treat ALL of the fish, and leave the DT fallow for 10 weeks. You will also need to quarantine and treat all new fish you get so you won't get encounter the same situation again.

This tank has been running for two months. Two weeks ago I tested the water to check the status of the cycling and the water looked fine to me. I took a sample of the water to the LFS and they concurred with me (two weeks ago). One week ago I introduced the puffer and eel about an hour apart into the display tank.

After we got the puffer into the qt this morning my wife checked the colors of the water test on the display tank which I was wildly wrong on. The readings are actually:

Water Temp 78 Degrees
Ph 8.2
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Alkalinity 220 ppm
Ammonia 0
Salinity 1.024

In the qt I am now using fishkeeper which is cooper free to treat the puffer.

sandwi54 · 06/16/2014, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoopyDaPimp

This tank has been running for two months. Two weeks ago I tested the water to check the status of the cycling and the water looked fine to me. I took a sample of the water to the LFS and they concurred with me (two weeks ago). One week ago I introduced the puffer and eel about an hour apart into the display tank.

After we got the puffer into the qt this morning my wife checked the colors of the water test on the display tank which I was wildly wrong on. The readings are actually:

Water Temp 78 Degrees
Ph 8.2
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Alkalinity 220 ppm
Ammonia 0
Salinity 1.024

In the qt I am now using fishkeeper which is cooper free to treat the puffer.

Ok that's good that your DT is cycled. One word of caution, if your QT contains no HEAVILY seeded bio media, you will experience high ammonia very soon. Puffers pollute water very easily due to their carnivores nature and short intestines, so they poop out whatever they eat quickly. Don't let your puffer die from ammonia poisoning from ich treatment -- many people made that mistake in the past, including me.

Anyway, fishkeeper won't do anything to cryptocaryon irritans so don't waste your money, time, and your fish's life on it. Please read the ich stickies above. The only three methods that are proven to work are copper (cupramine), tank transfer, and hypo. Contrary to popular belief, you can treat puffers with copper.

SnoopyDaPimp · 06/16/2014, 07:22 PM

I have read the stickies and the search results all which seem to go against each other with individual personal experiences. He has perked up a little since being in the qt but I will pick up some cupramine and a test kit to monitor the levels.

Sorry for the previous reading levels, the whole color acuity thing throws me off.

I appreciate everyone's help.

caribfan · 06/16/2014, 07:57 PM

Hey Snoop.

Glad to hear about the DT params, one less thing to worry about.

Just to back up what's been said earlier, I have treated my black dog face with cupramine with no major ill effects. I would caution you to go slow on the treatment and personally would limit the treatment time to 2 weeks, 3 at most once the effective dose has been reached.

Also want to echo what's been said regarding the QT biological filtration, be sure you have a stout filter set up.

Lastly, I would say that my dog face puffer goes through phases where it is just "pouting". It doesn't eat, it sulks, it's flat out emotional at times. Yours may be doinig the same thing, however, to be sure, I would still quarantine it and give it a full treatment with cupramine and prazi.

Additionally, I would do this for all the fish you have.

Has it eaten since you initially posted?

SnoopyDaPimp · 06/16/2014, 10:52 PM

He is still eating a quite healthy diet. After transfer to the QT he plowed through a silverside and a clam today. Only ate the meat in the clam though. The little time I left him in the DT after realizing he needed to move immediately he was still trying to pluck some bristle worms from the live rock and taking food well.

That was my initial thought that he was being moody until I started seeing the color change and then the following morning the white spots on his fins.

SnoopyDaPimp · 06/25/2014, 01:22 PM

Sadly Steve could not hang on. Despite carefully watching my water levels and doing regular water changes I had a severe spike in my ammonia overnight and I believe that was the final straw for him. Up until yesterday he still had a healthy appetite and his color looked nice. Thanks again for everyone's help.

caribfan · 06/25/2014, 07:02 PM

Bummer man.

sandwi54 · 06/25/2014, 07:35 PM

I'm sorry about the puffer... But that's why I specifically cautioned that you need to have a HEAVILY seeded bio filter in the QT to prevent ammonia spike, before placing the puffer in it. This is one of those things where a good intention leads to a bad outcome. Ich probably wouldn't have killed him but even just a little bit of ammonia surely would.

Sorry again about the puffer and I'm sure you learned your lesson too. Stay cheerful and get another puffer after you treat your fish for ich, but do thing right this time by properly quarantining him.

SnoopyDaPimp · 06/27/2014, 10:41 PM

The emergency qt that I abruptly set up is now becoming a permanent qt. As I continue to grow the tank I would prefer to not have to go through this again if I don't have to. Even reading the all the stickies and understanding the importance of a qt I decided to initially skip it and roll the dice. Unfortunately, I lost a fish and had a few really mad kids for a while.

06/15/2014, 01:51 PM	#1
SnoopyDaPimp Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 492	Stressed Dog Face Puffer So before I get castrated I assure you that I did search and the only thread that I could find similar did not end well for the fish. Got up this morning to say hi to Steve my dog face puffer and he looks bloated and his color has dramatically changed to dark brown and white from his normal light brown. I see no signs of a sickness just looking really stressed all of a sudden. I dropped the lighting down from 80% down to 50% in hope this helps him relax. His only tank mate is a zebra eel who is looking totally fine. I don't have a dedicated qt but was thinking of making a quick qt but I don't want to move him if he is already extremely stressed. Below is a picture for reference. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Tank info 110g FOWLR Two 48' Current USA LED lights Water Temp 77 Degrees Ph 8.2 Nitrate 0 Nitrite <.5 Alkalinity 300 ppm Ammonia <.5 Salinity 1.024

06/16/2014, 09:49 AM	#5
caribfan Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,922	Is the tank established? Your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate numbers resemble that of a tank that is in the middle of its cycle. If there is truly ammonia in a detectable amount, I would add prime or the equivalent type of ammonia neutralizing product. __________________ Matt Current Tank Info: 50 Breeder Quarantine Tank, 240 Miracles Finally up and running, 29 Biocube - AI Nano

06/16/2014, 10:18 AM	#6
SnoopyDaPimp Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 492	The tank is established so that was part of my concern. I woke up this morning and am now seeing some tell tell signs of ich now. There is nothing on his body, gills or eyes but his pectoral and dorsal fins have a few white spots starting to develop. I am going to be setting up an emergency qt and move him from the display tank here shortly. Last edited by SnoopyDaPimp; 06/16/2014 at 10:19 AM. Reason: spelling error

06/16/2014, 10:34 AM	#8
sandwi54 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 2,332	Please give us a history of your tank. How long has the tank been set up and how long has it been cycled? How many fish are in there and what's the time frame of adding them? If you have measurable amount of ammonia and nitrite, and 0 nitrate, your tank has not been cycled and your fish are being poisoned right now. Please put prime into the tank to detoxy ammonia and wait for your tank to cycle. Regarding ich, you'll need to quarantine and treat ALL of the fish, and leave the DT fallow for 10 weeks. You will also need to quarantine and treat all new fish you get so you won't get encounter the same situation again. __________________ 375g Envision FOWLR + 125g sump 40g Reef Current Tank Info: 375g FOWLR, 40g Reef

06/16/2014, 07:57 PM	#12
caribfan Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,922	Hey Snoop. Glad to hear about the DT params, one less thing to worry about. Just to back up what's been said earlier, I have treated my black dog face with cupramine with no major ill effects. I would caution you to go slow on the treatment and personally would limit the treatment time to 2 weeks, 3 at most once the effective dose has been reached. Also want to echo what's been said regarding the QT biological filtration, be sure you have a stout filter set up. Lastly, I would say that my dog face puffer goes through phases where it is just "pouting". It doesn't eat, it sulks, it's flat out emotional at times. Yours may be doinig the same thing, however, to be sure, I would still quarantine it and give it a full treatment with cupramine and prazi. Additionally, I would do this for all the fish you have. Has it eaten since you initially posted? __________________ Matt Current Tank Info: 50 Breeder Quarantine Tank, 240 Miracles Finally up and running, 29 Biocube - AI Nano

06/15/2014, 02:01 PM	#2
SnoopyDaPimp Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 492	Additionally, prior to this I have had no problems with him eating. Always very active until today.

06/16/2014, 09:32 AM	#3
fishhuman Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: LA california Posts: 647	What size tank and what are you feeding him

06/16/2014, 09:33 AM	#4
fishhuman Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: LA california Posts: 647	Sorry i did not see it said 110 gallons

06/16/2014, 07:22 PM	#11
SnoopyDaPimp Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 492	I have read the stickies and the search results all which seem to go against each other with individual personal experiences. He has perked up a little since being in the qt but I will pick up some cupramine and a test kit to monitor the levels. Sorry for the previous reading levels, the whole color acuity thing throws me off. I appreciate everyone's help.

06/16/2014, 10:52 PM	#13
SnoopyDaPimp Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 492	He is still eating a quite healthy diet. After transfer to the QT he plowed through a silverside and a clam today. Only ate the meat in the clam though. The little time I left him in the DT after realizing he needed to move immediately he was still trying to pluck some bristle worms from the live rock and taking food well. That was my initial thought that he was being moody until I started seeing the color change and then the following morning the white spots on his fins.

06/25/2014, 01:22 PM	#14
SnoopyDaPimp Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 492	Sadly Steve could not hang on. Despite carefully watching my water levels and doing regular water changes I had a severe spike in my ammonia overnight and I believe that was the final straw for him. Up until yesterday he still had a healthy appetite and his color looked nice. Thanks again for everyone's help.

06/25/2014, 07:02 PM	#15
caribfan Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,922	Bummer man. __________________ Matt Current Tank Info: 50 Breeder Quarantine Tank, 240 Miracles Finally up and running, 29 Biocube - AI Nano

06/25/2014, 07:35 PM	#16
sandwi54 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 2,332	I'm sorry about the puffer... But that's why I specifically cautioned that you need to have a HEAVILY seeded bio filter in the QT to prevent ammonia spike, before placing the puffer in it. This is one of those things where a good intention leads to a bad outcome. Ich probably wouldn't have killed him but even just a little bit of ammonia surely would. Sorry again about the puffer and I'm sure you learned your lesson too. Stay cheerful and get another puffer after you treat your fish for ich, but do thing right this time by properly quarantining him. __________________ 375g Envision FOWLR + 125g sump 40g Reef Current Tank Info: 375g FOWLR, 40g Reef Last edited by sandwi54; 06/25/2014 at 07:41 PM.

06/27/2014, 10:41 PM	#17
SnoopyDaPimp Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 492	The emergency qt that I abruptly set up is now becoming a permanent qt. As I continue to grow the tank I would prefer to not have to go through this again if I don't have to. Even reading the all the stickies and understanding the importance of a qt I decided to initially skip it and roll the dice. Unfortunately, I lost a fish and had a few really mad kids for a while.