Nano Reef gone crazy!

prizzypower · 07/02/2014, 07:16 PM

Hi I'm new here, but looking for advice for my tank which has been crazy.
Its a 14 gal Nano cube with salt water, has been running for a year now, just have a filter, no protein skimmer, do 15% water changes each week. Currently I have 2 clowns, a damsel, some snails and hermits and about 10 pounds of live rock.
So here's the story. I started the tank out a year ago and at its peak I had 2 clowns, 2 damsels, a royal gamma, coral banded shrimp, ghost shrimp, 5 emerald crabs, 2 anemone's, 2 stars, a bunch of hermits and snails. Some guy at the fish shop told me that I should get more live rock, so he sold me like 10 pounds of live rock and I added it all in. It went down him from there. The anemone's died almost instantly and everything went with them except the 2 clowns, a damsel, 2 emeralds, and a star, and some coral. That happened about 5 months ago. Now I still keep getting algae, the sand is all green, and i have red algae on the glass. Any tips on things I should do? I was thinking of changing the sand, adding a little more live rock, and maybe finding a protein skimmer that actually works and doesn't take up so much room.
Got my water tested last week
Ph 8.4
AM 0
NI 0
NA 20
Salt 1.025

Spiffy · 07/02/2014, 07:54 PM

What kind of filter is it? If it is a HOB power filter, then what are you running for filter media? And yes, you need a skimmer. The red algae sounds like cyanobacteria, which is bad, and do you have anything moving the water? Cyano loves dead-spots in your water flow and excessive nutrients on the water. Post up some pics of you can.

prizzypower · 07/02/2014, 08:03 PM

Its the built in Nano cube filter. I have another one of those cheap in tank filters that helps push the water around. I've had people tell me that I don't need a protein skimmer for such a small tank and other tell me I do.

Xavibear · 07/02/2014, 08:12 PM

Two clowns & a damsel is too much for a 14g tank. You have nutrient issues. You don't need to have a skimmer, but in an overstocked tank it is a necessity.

Buy some test kits & test your own water. Get a phosphate test. You'll really need to monitor it & nitrates to start getting your water back into shape.

AntiSatan · 07/02/2014, 08:47 PM

Was that 10 lbs of rock cured when you put it in?
Did you still up your sand bed when you put the rock in?
Sounds like your tank might have went through a cycle when you add the new rock and it rolled out of control as stuff died. My guess.
Keep up the water changes. May consider a 30% water change.
Run some carbon and phosphate remover cut down of feeding if you feed more than once a day cut down your light cycle some all can help.

idisc · 07/02/2014, 09:05 PM

I guess instead of worrying about getting a skimmer, figure out what caused your tank to crash...Did you get some bad stuff with the live rock you purchased? Was it out of the water long becfore you added it to your tank?

I am guessing that excessive die off caused an ammonia spike from the new live rock which killed your nems. Which in return caused tentacles to be all over the place killing other stock + spiking ammonia even higher.

If your tank was great for the first year with no problems what have you done since the live rock? There is no reason to have more than 14lbs of live rock in the tank. Another guess is when you added the extra live rock it cut down the water flow inside your tank which created dead spots leading to the cyano ect..

I personally would sell some of the live rock or trade it in to a LFS. Get a power head in the tank (Hydor 240 or 425 ( $20-30$ ) - Scrape all the algae off the glass and suck as much as possible out doing a decent size water change. Run no lights for 3 days and no food. Most of the algae should die off.

+1 on getting some test kits, I would also run carbon + gfo with a product like "Chemipure Elite" - Possible upgrade on the return pump to a MJ1200 for more flow. Don't dose anything you can't test for.

I don't think your tank is overstocked by any means. 5x emerald crabs is to much for a tank this size. I have seen way over stocked tanks with no skimmer ect.. it's all about how much you take care of your tank.

Another thing is if you are using the stock bulbs that came with it that most certainly need to be changed. I would never go over 6 months with a pair of bulbs and your at 1.5 years if that is the case...sometimes this is an instant fix to algae problems.

droog · 07/03/2014, 08:26 PM

Good advice above.

One thing that you can do with a tank this small (that you can't easily do with a larger system) is a big do-over. You could get a large pail, and drain most of the tank water into that with a a good piece of LR. Remove the bad rock and transfer the livestock to the pail with a powerhead then have at your nano cube. Throw away the bad rock and your sand, start over. Move the livestock back once your tank is cycled. If you use bacteria-in-a-bottle with a bit of LR or live sand, you can probably be cycled again within a week. All your algae issues will be gone.

Sometimes the "shock-and-awe" method works better than gradually trying to fix a system thats out of balance. A HOB skimmer is likely to help.

-droog

prizzypower · 07/03/2014, 11:26 PM

I have a 54 watt par 38 led bulb for my tank. I had like 7 pounds of live rock when it was doing great and i boosted it up to like 20 pounds when everything died ( not sure exactly but it was around that) and when everything died I removed like half the live rock so I have about 10 pounds in there now. I wanted to replace the sand, can I do that and add my fish right back in? I have 10 pounds of live sand in there and its all green now, I wanted to replace it with 10 pounds of fresh live sand. I don't really have any where to keep my clowns while the tank cycles so can I just replace the sand, keep the water that I have no, and add them in the same day?

Crooked Reef · 07/03/2014, 11:51 PM

No. Fresh "live sand" which I assume you mean the bagged stuff will have live stuff in it, but will still have some die off which could and probably will cause another cycle in a tank this size. Even in a big established tank you should only do small sand changes at a time. Pulling out all of the old live sand can also cause issues if done at once. Also any new sand will get the same green algae growth until the cause is fixed. You may be able to use dry sand instead of live sand. It will seed from the rock and be live pretty quickly anyway.
Run carbon, gfo or other phosphate removal media, do your own water testing with adding phosphate testing and replace your older bulbs. Bulbs shift spectrums over time and it is likely yours has moved to a spectrum that feeds algae growth. You also don't "need" a skimmer but it will make things a whole heck of a lot easier. If you do enough water changes and keep your parameters in check you can go without one. I run one but in my opinion they are not necessary on a tank, just makes things easier and more automated. It is like having an aquarium controller. Noone needs a controller. They just automate things and give you more time for doing other things.

prizzypower · 07/04/2014, 12:27 AM

Its a fairly new bulb, got it after the big die off. The sand also turned green and all my algae problems started when all that stuff died.

SwampyBill · 07/04/2014, 01:46 AM

You had 5 fish, 2 anemones plus all the other inhabitants in a 14gal tank that was barely cycled? I'm surprised it didn't crash earlier than around 7 months. That was waaaaaay too much of a bioload on that size tank; & adding the live rock probly caused it to have a mini-cycle which in turn caused the crash. Taking out the existing sand & putting new sand in would be just as harmful, if not more so, than adding the rock.
There seem to be a few issues going on--the red algae is probly due to lack of good flow & dead spots in tank. Do you have a powerhead helping w/ flow? Excess nutrients from somewhere are causing the other algae issues. How often do you feed & how long do you keep lights on?
You might bump up water changes to 20--30% for awhile, siphoning sandbed each time, & test your parameters every few days; esp. nitrates & phosphates. Add carbon or GFO, & keep lights off for a couple of days.

billdogg · 07/04/2014, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampyBill

You had 5 fish, 2 anemones plus all the other inhabitants in a 14gal tank that was barely cycled? I'm surprised it didn't crash earlier than around 7 months. That was waaaaaay too much of a bioload on that size tank; & adding the live rock probly caused it to have a mini-cycle which in turn caused the crash. Taking out the existing sand & putting new sand in would be just as harmful, if not more so, than adding the rock.
There seem to be a few issues going on--the red algae is probly due to lack of good flow & dead spots in tank. Do you have a powerhead helping w/ flow? Excess nutrients from somewhere are causing the other algae issues. How often do you feed & how long do you keep lights on?
You might bump up water changes to 20--30% for awhile, siphoning sandbed each time, & test your parameters every few days; esp. nitrates & phosphates. Add carbon AND GFO, & keep lights off for a couple of days.

What he said.

SwampyBill · 07/04/2014, 04:33 PM

Thanks, Billdogg. A thumbs up from you means ALOT!!

EnderTurtle · 07/04/2014, 10:03 PM

I bet the liverock wasn't cured. It couldve had bleach inside or maybe copper inside which slowly leached out.

Or it still had dead materials which leached out phosphates and nitrogenous waste.

07/02/2014, 07:16 PM	#1
prizzypower Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 4	Nano Reef gone crazy! Hi I'm new here, but looking for advice for my tank which has been crazy. Its a 14 gal Nano cube with salt water, has been running for a year now, just have a filter, no protein skimmer, do 15% water changes each week. Currently I have 2 clowns, a damsel, some snails and hermits and about 10 pounds of live rock. So here's the story. I started the tank out a year ago and at its peak I had 2 clowns, 2 damsels, a royal gamma, coral banded shrimp, ghost shrimp, 5 emerald crabs, 2 anemone's, 2 stars, a bunch of hermits and snails. Some guy at the fish shop told me that I should get more live rock, so he sold me like 10 pounds of live rock and I added it all in. It went down him from there. The anemone's died almost instantly and everything went with them except the 2 clowns, a damsel, 2 emeralds, and a star, and some coral. That happened about 5 months ago. Now I still keep getting algae, the sand is all green, and i have red algae on the glass. Any tips on things I should do? I was thinking of changing the sand, adding a little more live rock, and maybe finding a protein skimmer that actually works and doesn't take up so much room. Got my water tested last week Ph 8.4 AM 0 NI 0 NA 20 Salt 1.025

07/02/2014, 07:54 PM	#2
Spiffy Cheesy Poofs! Join Date: May 2014 Location: Bronx, New York Posts: 357	What kind of filter is it? If it is a HOB power filter, then what are you running for filter media? And yes, you need a skimmer. The red algae sounds like cyanobacteria, which is bad, and do you have anything moving the water? Cyano loves dead-spots in your water flow and excessive nutrients on the water. Post up some pics of you can. __________________ Ecotech Radion XR15 Pro Gen3 x2, ReefLink, CPR CS50 Overflow. Reef Octopus NWB 110 Skimmer, Reef Octopus BR-110 Reactor. VorTech MP40 w/ QD Wetside x2, MP10 x1(Sump), 30-Gallon Sump. Current Tank Info: 60 Gallon, Prepping for LPS, 6 Years.

07/02/2014, 08:12 PM	#4
Xavibear Crazy Prophet Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 1,008	Two clowns & a damsel is too much for a 14g tank. You have nutrient issues. You don't need to have a skimmer, but in an overstocked tank it is a necessity. Buy some test kits & test your own water. Get a phosphate test. You'll really need to monitor it & nitrates to start getting your water back into shape. __________________ 36g bowfront Current Tank Info: Pair of Occellaris clowns, Royal gramma, Yellow Watchman Goby/Tiger Pistol Shrimp, Blue tuxedo urchin, Fire shrimp, Trochus snails, Cerith snails, Nassarius snails, Ricordea mushroom, Kenya tree, Acan brain & Frogspawn

07/02/2014, 08:47 PM	#5
AntiSatan Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Awatukee, Arizona Posts: 428	Was that 10 lbs of rock cured when you put it in? Did you still up your sand bed when you put the rock in? Sounds like your tank might have went through a cycle when you add the new rock and it rolled out of control as stuff died. My guess. Keep up the water changes. May consider a 30% water change. Run some carbon and phosphate remover cut down of feeding if you feed more than once a day cut down your light cycle some all can help. __________________ TNPer Sheepdog Fear No Evil Current Tank Info: DSA Neo 105, 2 AI Hydra 52's,Bubble Magnus Curve 7 skimmer,Eshopps Gen 3 R100 Refugium supmp ,VorTech MP40wQD and Maxspect Gyre XF130

07/03/2014, 11:51 PM	#9
Crooked Reef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,765	No. Fresh "live sand" which I assume you mean the bagged stuff will have live stuff in it, but will still have some die off which could and probably will cause another cycle in a tank this size. Even in a big established tank you should only do small sand changes at a time. Pulling out all of the old live sand can also cause issues if done at once. Also any new sand will get the same green algae growth until the cause is fixed. You may be able to use dry sand instead of live sand. It will seed from the rock and be live pretty quickly anyway. Run carbon, gfo or other phosphate removal media, do your own water testing with adding phosphate testing and replace your older bulbs. Bulbs shift spectrums over time and it is likely yours has moved to a spectrum that feeds algae growth. You also don't "need" a skimmer but it will make things a whole heck of a lot easier. If you do enough water changes and keep your parameters in check you can go without one. I run one but in my opinion they are not necessary on a tank, just makes things easier and more automated. It is like having an aquarium controller. Noone needs a controller. They just automate things and give you more time for doing other things. __________________ “In wine there is wisdom; in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.” - Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef. Biocube 29 lionfish tank. Mantis tank.

07/02/2014, 08:03 PM	#3
prizzypower Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 4	Its the built in Nano cube filter. I have another one of those cheap in tank filters that helps push the water around. I've had people tell me that I don't need a protein skimmer for such a small tank and other tell me I do.

07/02/2014, 09:05 PM	#6
idisc Got Sticks? Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Scriba, New York Posts: 898	I guess instead of worrying about getting a skimmer, figure out what caused your tank to crash...Did you get some bad stuff with the live rock you purchased? Was it out of the water long becfore you added it to your tank? I am guessing that excessive die off caused an ammonia spike from the new live rock which killed your nems. Which in return caused tentacles to be all over the place killing other stock + spiking ammonia even higher. If your tank was great for the first year with no problems what have you done since the live rock? There is no reason to have more than 14lbs of live rock in the tank. Another guess is when you added the extra live rock it cut down the water flow inside your tank which created dead spots leading to the cyano ect.. I personally would sell some of the live rock or trade it in to a LFS. Get a power head in the tank (Hydor 240 or 425 ( $20-30$ ) - Scrape all the algae off the glass and suck as much as possible out doing a decent size water change. Run no lights for 3 days and no food. Most of the algae should die off. +1 on getting some test kits, I would also run carbon + gfo with a product like "Chemipure Elite" - Possible upgrade on the return pump to a MJ1200 for more flow. Don't dose anything you can't test for. I don't think your tank is overstocked by any means. 5x emerald crabs is to much for a tank this size. I have seen way over stocked tanks with no skimmer ect.. it's all about how much you take care of your tank. Another thing is if you are using the stock bulbs that came with it that most certainly need to be changed. I would never go over 6 months with a pair of bulbs and your at 1.5 years if that is the case...sometimes this is an instant fix to algae problems.

07/03/2014, 08:26 PM	#7
droog Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 736	Good advice above. One thing that you can do with a tank this small (that you can't easily do with a larger system) is a big do-over. You could get a large pail, and drain most of the tank water into that with a a good piece of LR. Remove the bad rock and transfer the livestock to the pail with a powerhead then have at your nano cube. Throw away the bad rock and your sand, start over. Move the livestock back once your tank is cycled. If you use bacteria-in-a-bottle with a bit of LR or live sand, you can probably be cycled again within a week. All your algae issues will be gone. Sometimes the "shock-and-awe" method works better than gradually trying to fix a system thats out of balance. A HOB skimmer is likely to help. -droog

07/03/2014, 11:26 PM	#8
prizzypower Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 4	I have a 54 watt par 38 led bulb for my tank. I had like 7 pounds of live rock when it was doing great and i boosted it up to like 20 pounds when everything died ( not sure exactly but it was around that) and when everything died I removed like half the live rock so I have about 10 pounds in there now. I wanted to replace the sand, can I do that and add my fish right back in? I have 10 pounds of live sand in there and its all green now, I wanted to replace it with 10 pounds of fresh live sand. I don't really have any where to keep my clowns while the tank cycles so can I just replace the sand, keep the water that I have no, and add them in the same day?

07/04/2014, 12:27 AM	#10
prizzypower Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 4	Its a fairly new bulb, got it after the big die off. The sand also turned green and all my algae problems started when all that stuff died.

07/04/2014, 01:46 AM	#11
SwampyBill Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: St. Pete, FL. Posts: 2,369	You had 5 fish, 2 anemones plus all the other inhabitants in a 14gal tank that was barely cycled? I'm surprised it didn't crash earlier than around 7 months. That was waaaaaay too much of a bioload on that size tank; & adding the live rock probly caused it to have a mini-cycle which in turn caused the crash. Taking out the existing sand & putting new sand in would be just as harmful, if not more so, than adding the rock. There seem to be a few issues going on--the red algae is probly due to lack of good flow & dead spots in tank. Do you have a powerhead helping w/ flow? Excess nutrients from somewhere are causing the other algae issues. How often do you feed & how long do you keep lights on? You might bump up water changes to 20--30% for awhile, siphoning sandbed each time, & test your parameters every few days; esp. nitrates & phosphates. Add carbon or GFO, & keep lights off for a couple of days. __________________ I love me some wrasse... & laissez les bon temps rouler! Current Tank Info: 120 gal Vizio Last edited by SwampyBill; 07/04/2014 at 01:53 AM.

07/04/2014, 04:33 PM	#13
SwampyBill Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: St. Pete, FL. Posts: 2,369	Thanks, Billdogg. A thumbs up from you means ALOT!! __________________ I love me some wrasse... & laissez les bon temps rouler! Current Tank Info: 120 gal Vizio

07/04/2014, 10:03 PM	#14
EnderTurtle BAR - Sponsorships Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 521	I bet the liverock wasn't cured. It couldve had bleach inside or maybe copper inside which slowly leached out. Or it still had dead materials which leached out phosphates and nitrogenous waste.